“Reports of their deaths have been greatly exaggerated”

[sweetsunray]

3 hours ago, LongRider said:

I read Varamyr's chapter more as an info dump about wargs then as an outline about what will happen to Jon Snow. 

Same, just like aFfC prologue is supposed to be a bit of an info dump on glass candles. That's not to say there are parallel imagery and references in a prologue, but nope not in the sense it's taken to forewarn Jon's gonna end up having a second life in a wolf.

Jon knows he's a warg, he has his wolf dreams, but he's still very uncomfortable about it, and not using it to his advantage. Which I think is very well written by George, since he and Robb were of an age, and older than Bran and Arya. Even Bran had to overcome Luwin's guilt tripping him that it was something bad by drugging him to have dreamless sleep (which didn't even work). Arya (and Ricon) are the sole ones unburdened by the prejudice over it.

[divica]

18 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Same, just like aFfC prologue is supposed to be a bit of an info dump on glass candles. That's not to say there are parallel imagery and references in a prologue, but nope not in the sense it's taken to forewarn Jon's gonna end up having a second life in a wolf.

Jon knows he's a warg, he has his wolf dreams, but he's still very uncomfortable about it, and not using it to his advantage. Which I think is very well written by George, since he and Robb were of an age, and older than Bran and Arya. Even Bran had to overcome Luwin's guilt tripping him that it was something bad by drugging him to have dreamless sleep (which didn't even work). Arya (and Ricon) are the sole ones unburdened by the prejudice over it.

But the prologue can have important information about the future or past of a diferent character. Bloodraven, bran, euron or roose are characters that can have been involved/will be involved in stealing anorther person's body.

[sweetsunray]

1 hour ago, divica said:

But the prologue can have important information about the future or past of a diferent character. Bloodraven, bran, euron or roose are characters that can have been involved/will be involved in stealing anorther person's body.

Bran already skinchanged Hodor before Varamyr's prologue. Varamyr shows that this cannot be done by force to a mind that is not somehow broken. There is no indication whatsoever that Bloodraven ever did such a thing. Roose is not a skinchanger, just a stealer of status and titles by stabbing someone in the back. Euron is a rapist, and he'll end up being stolen to host Shade. 

[divica]

2 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Bran already skinchanged Hodor before Varamyr's prologue. Varamyr shows that this cannot be done by force to a mind that is not somehow broken. There is no indication whatsoever that Bloodraven ever did such a thing. Roose is not a skinchanger, just a stealer of status and titles by stabbing someone in the back. Euron is a rapist, and he'll end up being stolen to host Shade. 

what about bolt-on? roose is just too strange to be a normal human. He says that he would be happy if ramsay killed his baby son. That can't be normal.

And it is very dificult to proof that bloodraven hasn t influenced anyone before. I bet there are hundreds of theories about bloodraven being behind some events.

I also have doubts if euron isn't possessed already...

[sweetsunray]

11 minutes ago, divica said:

what about bolt-on? roose is just too strange to be a normal human. He says that he would be happy if ramsay killed his baby son. That can't be normal.

Guy likes leeches Bolt-on is a fan theory, and one I never susbscribed to

11 minutes ago, divica said:

And it is very dificult to proof that bloodraven hasn t influenced anyone before. I bet there are hundreds of theories about bloodraven being behind some events.

As many as the smallfolk claim Sansa flew away as a wolf from KL. These hundreds of theories existed prior to Varamyr's prologue.

11 minutes ago, divica said:

I also have doubts if euron isn't possessed already...

He's been drinking Shade for a while now

[divica]

Just now, sweetsunray said:

Guy likes leeches Bolt-on is a fan theory, and one I never susbscribed to

I suspect anyone who likes leeches too much can't be a healthy person and roose doesn't seem to have any problem. But what completly sells me the bolt-on theory or a version of it is this.

Quote

The question frightened him. Once he had heard Skinner say that the Bastard had killed his trueborn brother, but he had never dared to believe it. He could be wrong. Brothers die sometimes, it does not mean that they were killed. My brothers died, and I never killed them. "My lord has a new wife to give him sons."

"And won't my bastard love that? Lady Walda is a Frey, and she has a fertile feel to her. I have become oddly fond of my fat little wife. The two before her never made a sound in bed, but this one squeals and shudders. I find that quite endearing. If she pops out sons the way she pops in tarts, the Dreadfort will soon be overrun with Boltons. Ramsay will kill them all, of course. That's for the best. I will not live long enough to see new sons to manhood, and boy lords are the bane of any House. Walda will grieve to see them die, though."

No human person can think like this. It is impossible that any father is happy that one of his sons will kill his other infant sons. And if you also take into account that roose probably knows that ramsay killed his first son who he raised since he was a baby contrary to ramsay and he still does nothing then roose can't be human. There is no way to explain roose's behaviour besides him being some kind of monster.

12 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

As many as the smallfolk claim Sansa flew away as a wolf from KL. These hundreds of theories existed prior to Varamyr's prologue.

But the prologue shows that even normal skinchangers can control people. So who knows what special ones like bran or bloodraven can do?

14 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

He's been drinking Shade for a while now

what is that suposed to mean lol?

[sweetsunray]

56 minutes ago, divica said:

No human person can think like this. It is impossible that any father is happy that one of his sons will kill his other infant sons. And if you also take into account that roose probably knows that ramsay killed his first son who he raised since he was a baby contrary to ramsay and he still does nothing then roose can't be human. There is no way to explain roose's behaviour besides him being some kind of monster.

He's a human monster. Hardcore psychopath, but not necessarily sadistic. Like in There Will Be Blood.

56 minutes ago, divica said:

But the prologue shows that even normal skinchangers can control people. So who knows what special ones like bran or bloodraven can do?

The prologue doesn't show that skinchangers can "control" people. Varamyr had zero control over Thistle. Skinchanhing remains skinchanging. Bran would fail with Thistle just as well.

1 hour ago, divica said:

what is that suposed to mean lol?

Shade is the surviving hivemind entity of a very old creature that requires a heart and Undying to operate properly. She survives in the liquid. Euron is drinking it for a long while, so she's part of him already. She's fooling him the same way he does with his own men - promises of gifts and him becoming a god. But the sole god he'll ever be is the heart of this spider goddess ;-)

[divica]

26 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

He's a human monster. Hardcore psychopath, but not necessarily sadistic. Like in There Will Be Blood.

Even psycopaths care somewhat about their kids/familly. But that passage doesn't only show how wrong roose is. It is completly ilogical that he doesn't care about ramsay being his only heir. what if something happens to ramsay? Great houses care about having several heirs in case someone dies. 

And roose suspecting/knowing that ramsay killed his trueborn and not doing anything is wtf! It could make sense if he didn't plan to hurt ramsay until he had a spare heir. But roose actually aproves ramsay's actions and is ok with him inheriting his position.

You can't call roose human. There is no way! 

[LongRider]

To me, the scariest part of both Roose and Ramsey is that they are human.  How careless Roose is about other people's lives, and Ramsey is worse.  Both are cruel and sadistic, as SSR said, psychopaths.

[astarkchoice]

On 4/21/2023 at 2:18 AM, LongRider said:

To me, the scariest part of both Roose and Ramsey is that they are human.  How careless Roose is about other people's lives, and Ramsey is worse.  Both are cruel and sadistic, as SSR said, psychopaths.

Whats really dark is rooses reaction to hearing of  ramsays 'fun' isnt shock or horror just a sort of 'boys will be boys bht keep it quiet' 

[csuszka1948]

On 4/20/2023 at 12:41 AM, LongRider said:

Two times in the Prologue Varamyr remembers driving out Haggon's spirit from Greyskins and Haggon's spirit dying.  Read it for yourself. 

 

Yes, I read it and he doesn't say it anywhere that Haggon's spirit would be dying from this:

"Haggon was weak, afraid of his own power. He died weeping and alone when I ripped his second life from him. Varamyr had devoured his heart himself. He taught me much and more, and the last thing I learned from him was the taste of human esh."

"The hunter died weeping after Varamyr took Greyskin from him, driving him out to claim the beast for his own. No second life for you, old man. Varamyr Threeskins, he’d called himself back then. Greyskin made four, though the old wolf was frail and almost toothless and soon followed Haggon into death."

If someone dies weeping and alone, that means that he still has his sprit remaining until his physical body dies. 

On 4/20/2023 at 12:41 AM, LongRider said:

 

To paraphrase the Hound; fuck the show. 

 

Don't nitpick on details (in the show resurrection didn't change Jon anyway).