Rewatching HotD

[The Bard of Banefort]

2 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

On to 'The Rogue Prince':

That episode works much better than the pilot. It is more concise, focusing on two clear plots. But there are considerable issues as well. Half a year has passed yet Rhaenyra being declared the Heir Apparent in a huge ceremony had literally no effects or consequences at all. She still serves as cupbearer at the Small Council and doesn't have a seat there. She has no voice nor does her father have changed her status so that she sits at the table to watch and listen how the Realm is run. Otto Hightower - at that time still 'the Queenmaker' - also has made no attempt to try to prepare Rhaenyra for her future role.

All that undermines what has happened in the previous episode and doesn't reflect that months have passed.

More problematic in this regard is the implication that Viserys and Alicent apparently have regular (daily?) conversations since their first private meeting in the pilot ... but Rhaenyra has no clue about that despite the fact that Viserys only asks Alicent in this very episode to not talk to Rhaenyra about them talking about her. That just makes no sense in light of the fact that Rhaenyra and Alicent are besties. But not only in that light - also simply because they live in the same castle and all see each other. These meetings are not 'secret' as such, so Rhaenyra should have learned about them somehow, possibly even by way of chancing on them in her father's chambers, by way of gossip from servants and KG, etc.

Even weirder is the implication that Otto still sends Alicent to Viserys - they have an established relationship now, and Viserys is the king. Dropping in on him like Alicent did in the pilot was already a risky thing but the idea that she can continue to just visit him whenever she or her father feel she should feels wrong. Viserys would summon her whenever he wanted her to keep him company, not the other way around. If they wanted to show that Alicent was uncomfortable with things it should have been about Viserys calling on her - not her father pushing her to visit him.

Corlys Velaryon really comes across as a guy who isn't the book character at all. His speech about him being a second son selfmade guy feels forced and isn't delivered well. The man accomplished so much he shouldn't be that eager for the throne. And the way Otto treats Corlys also feels like something he wouldn't do - or only if he was truly overreaching himself at that point. Corlys is the most famous man alive, a titan among the living, and Otto is allegedly a learned, scholarly man. He is more likely to befriend Corlys, enjoy his stories from the far corners of the world than antagonize him over trivial issues. I also doesn't like that Corlys and not Rhaenys is the ambitious one there. She is royalty - even more so in the show than the books as the Velaryon-Targaryen link is clearly less pronounced in the show.

Laena's talk about her giving Viserys strong pureblooded Valyrian mixed race children is kind of unintentionally funny. It would be odd talk in general, but this notion that these two families who look distinctly different are 'pureblooded' gives the concept a strange vibe. It gets even more confusing when we learn the Velaryons never were dragonlords, so why is it then great for the Targaryens to intermarry with them? In the book it is clear that it is because Targaryens have married into House Velaryon before.

It also feels kind of weird that Corlys presents his family as a kind of rival Valyrian power to the Targaryens. They are not. They are close allies, always have been, and the present issue is that they represent the female branch of House Targaryen now ... not an independent power. I get it that the show had to introduce them ... but it just feels off.

The Rhaenys-Rhaenyra conversation rubbed me another way this time. I'm sure they didn't want to write it like that, but Rhaenyra is the more mature person there. Rhaenys is concerned with her own loss, with the fact that she lost a popularity contests ... but her case and Rhaenyra's are distinctly different. Rhaenys was never named Heir Apparent to the Iron Throne by a king. And Rhaenyra's take on things there is more accurate. Rhaenys is not wrong about how a brother of Rhaenyra might be viewed ... but the notion that it is meaningless what a Targaryen king decrees is a pretty bad take on her side. Also her bitterness leading her to declare that the men would rather burn the Realm than suffer a female ruler. Worst of all is Rhaenys mocking Rhaenyra's job as cupbearer when that's actually a privileged position, a way a young prince or princess can first watch how the adults are running things, how the king deals with his advisers and lords, etc. Making fun of them really casts the whole thing in a bad light.

Otto again strikes one as a kind of moron. In the pilot he insidiously tries to push Viserys to cut out Baratheon tongues, now he jumps on the chance to drive an even deeper wedge between Viserys and Daemon. It seems all he could think of was to go to Dragonstone and return with another horror story about Daemon's behavior and conduct. And that's also a moment where Viserys is really weak - he should have never allowed Otto to represent him in a struggle with Daemon that could escalate. Otto cannot think straight with the man ... and Daemon would have no problem cutting Otto down. Really funny, though, is Otto's naive approach. He didn't even think about Caraxes, apparently. Unitentionally this also highlights the problem of George's silly setting there, dragon-wise, when Otto prattles on about the commands of King Viserys, etc. when the king doesn't even have a dragon. He couldn't possibly oppose Rhaenys or Daemon or his own daughter if they were facing him on dragonback. And the show raises that issue twice - first when Rhaenyra talks about the king's dragonriders and then later when Caraxes confronts Otto and his guys ... and Syrax's presence immediately puts Rhaenyra in charge over Otto.

This episode really shows in what sense dragons are power ... while also exposing the flaws in George's worldbuilding.

We also see what kind of pompous ass Otto is when he derides Mysaria and any children Daemon and she might have. It is clear where Alicent's strict view of marriage and bastards comes from. This is just asshole behavior, though. One we also saw earlier, in episode 1, when Otto presumed to lecture Daemon about his duties as a husband. Daemon is a royal prince, there were Targaryen kings who practiced polygamy, and in the show setting this clearly didn't fall out of practice. For Viserys and Rhaenyra the theft of Baelon's egg is an issue ... not so much his declaration he is going to take a second wife.

Viserys' quest to find another wife also works very well. It would have been great, though, to see more how Alicent feels about the entire thing. The show as a whole actually fails to tell us how she felt about Viserys, truly. It is clear she didn't hate or dislike him very much ... but we don't know if she wanted to marry him, wanted to be queen, had a crush on somebody else, etc. I understand that the Alicent thing being the surprise of the episode made it harder to explore this - which is the reason why the show needed an episode starting with the wedding and culminating in Aegon's birth. How do we interpret her mending the dragon figure and turning it into a gift for the king? It shows that she insightful and caring ... but is it supposed to have a deeper meaning? I don't know.

This could also have helped to draw out the Criston Cole plot some more. Rhaenyra picking him works fine ... but this feels like something she would have been charged with before she was the Heir Apparent - in her new position this is more a humiliation. Basically, we should have had cupbearer Rhaenyra interrupt the council session back in the pilot - to the irritation of some of the men and the enjoyment/fun of Viserys who should have had her there from the start to learn something. After her investiture she should have had a seat at the council and the pushback from some of the men should have been more about a woman sitting on the council than a young girl making a bold suggestion.

Viserys' later talk with Rhaenyra about her suggestion at the council felt better during the rewatch as his 'You will learn' is something we see she has done later. But it would have been great to see more of that process. If I remember correctly, Milly-Rhaenyra has a weird arc which has her very much in charge in episode 2 only to regress in episodes 3-5. I'll have to rewatch them first, but framing the search for a husband for Rhaenyra as something that undermines her role as heir is something that makes no longer any sense after Viserys confirmed her as heir in episode 3.

Mysaria wasn't that bad in that episode, although it would have been interesting to have a scene with her and Daemon that made it clear what she intended to do now.

I like Corlys’ actor, but he’s definitely more theatrical than the other characters. I feel like he’s onstage while everyone else is on set.

Viserys not having a dragon in the books is more understandable since Daemon is a bit more restrained. In the books, when Viserys tells him to give the egg back and send Mysaria away, he does it.

I always thought Rhaenys seemed really petty in that scene with Rhaenyra. She does, however, seem to acknowledge that she doesn’t like the idea of her young daughter marrying Viserys—which just shows how subservient she is to Corlys.

Viserys’ big reveal that he’s marrying Alicent is so goofy. He doesn’t tell either Rhaenyra or Corlys about it ahead of time, humiliating both of them, and no one seems to wonder why Alicent is randomly present at the council meeting. 

I hate how they make it look like Alicent and Laena are the only two options for a wife. There were plenty of women over the age of fifteen that Viserys could have chosen.

They filmed a confrontation between Rhaenyra and Alicent right after this, along with Rhaenyra helping Alicent dress for her wedding. I’m not sure why they cut those scenes. Apparently Rhaenyra called Alicent a whore, and Alicent broke down crying and said that no one ever bothered to ask her what she wanted. Milly’s Rhaenyra is a huge brat, so I don’t think they’d cut it because of how it would make her look (it also would have created a parallel to when Rhaenyra is called a whore by Vaemond later on).

[Lord Varys]

10 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Viserys not having a dragon in the books is more understandable since Daemon is a bit more restrained. In the books, when Viserys tells him to give the egg back and send Mysaria away, he does it.

He also does it in the show. But, no. The reason why it doesn't look that bad in the book is that the chapter is just a brief summary of events.

Imagine Corlys and Daemon preparing for the Stepstones thing being a plotline in the main book series. We would have a scenario where Daemon, Rhaenys, Laena, and Laenor have four dragons between them ... and Viserys is stuck with an eight-year-old girl and Syrax. It is a joke. He has no power. And if Daemon and the Velaryons are fuming because of both 'Rhaenyra the heir' and the Alicent match - which they very much are in the book - then they have the raw power to do away with the fat man and his brat and crown Daemon or Rhaenys or Laenor in his place. That's just a fact. And the lords would fall over themselves to worship the new monarch, whoever he or she may be. They would have the four largest dragons that are claimed.

The show unintentionally portrays this as well. They don't make it explicit since we don't know yet who the dragonriders are Rhaenyra mentions. But we, the readership, know that Daemon and Rhaenys are the only other dragonriders at this point, with show Laenor perhaps also having claimed Seasmoke at that point. Viserys has only Rhaenyra. And he is clearly not willing to risk her life in a fight. So the king is effectively dragonless. And how crucial dragons are in a powerplay or conflict we see on Dragonstone with Otto. He and his men effectively freeze the moment Caraxes shows up.

10 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I always thought Rhaenys seemed really petty in that scene with Rhaenyra. She does, however, seem to acknowledge that she doesn’t like the idea of her young daughter marrying Viserys—which just shows how subservient she is to Corlys.

Yes, that sucks as well. They could have made her both ambitious and protective of her daughter. When challenged by Rhaenyra about putting her little daughter into her father's bed Rhaenys could have given Rhaenyra a long stare, a grin, saying 'Girl, do you actually think your father would dare to lay a hand on my daughter before I give him permission?! If so, then you are a greater fool than I thought...'

Rhaenys Targaryen is described as a fiery character in the book, she chose her own husband, apparently, and her temperament and anger may have cowed her own husband into hiding both his mistress and his bastard sons ... which could actually indicate that Corlys feared Rhaenys might hurt or even kill Marilda and her sons if she found out what had happened. This woman grew up expecting to become queen one day if her father Aemon ruled as king. Viserys and Daemon would have been to her less than what Jaehaerys and Alysanne were to their elder sister Rhaena during the reign of the Conqueror and their father - the little cousins from the lesser branch, boys didn't view as worthy enough for her own hand.

10 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Viserys’ big reveal that he’s marrying Alicent is so goofy. He doesn’t tell either Rhaenyra or Corlys about it ahead of time, humiliating both of them, and no one seems to wonder why Alicent is randomly present at the council meeting.

Yes, the setup there really gives away that the writers and director didn't think about what happened prior to that scene, they just shot this because of the payoff, not because this was a logical or natural conclusion. There would have been easy ways to shoot it different, say, by moving it to the king's solar, with Viserys first making an announcement to Rhaenyra and the Velaryons, before calling in Otto and Alicent - or by him calling Alicent into the council chamber for the annoucement. Hell, even something as easy as focusing on Rhaenyra when she enters the room, showing curiosity and confusion about Alicent being there.

10 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I hate how they make it look like Alicent and Laena are the only two options for a wife. There were plenty of women over the age of fifteen that Viserys could have chosen.

That is something they could have covered, especially since Rhaenyra kind of randomly mentions that the councilmen are plotting to marry her father to a new wife ... even before the Laena thing starts.

But with the Targaryen marriage policies Laena is the obvious match - and it is good that Lyonel Strong points that out. Who else would have had her advantages.

10 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

They filmed a confrontation between Rhaenyra and Alicent right after this, along with Rhaenyra helping Alicent dress for her wedding. I’m not sure why they cut those scenes. Apparently Rhaenyra called Alicent a whore, and Alicent broke down crying and said that no one ever bothered to ask her what she wanted. Milly’s Rhaenyra is a huge brat, so I don’t think they’d cut it because of how it would make her look (it also would have created a parallel to when Rhaenyra is called a whore by Vaemond later on).

I know about those scenes - they are the obvious payoff after the payoff. Rhaenyra should have such thoughts as the entire thing happened behind her back. Hell, it could have even been better if she had found out about Alicent's secret meetings shortly before the announcement, thinking Alicent had been pulling a really weird thing behind her back.

But it would have been even better if we had just learned what Alicent wanted herself. Not having that ... and having Emily-Alicent struggling being a queen for effectively the remainder of the first half of the season is very detrimental to the character. We know that she is kind of unhappy with her lot in life ... but we don't know if or what she would have wanted instead. Being queen is completely separate from being Viserys' wife. It is a position in itself, one that comes with tremendous prestige, formal and informal power, etc. It is very odd that Alicent apparently also didn't want that - just as it makes really no sense that Queen Alicent would not immediately outshine and erase the memory of Queen Aemma the moment she started to give the king and the Realm sons.

I actually don't think the Milly-Rhaenyra is particularly bratty. She is annoyed about the behavior of a bunch of no-name knights who compete for her hand ... but that's it. In direct conversation she is always pretty nice and tries not to hurt or antagonize anyone.

[Lord Varys]

Realizing I haven't talked much about Mysaria here, I think I should add some thoughts:

Don't have much problems with the accent, being no English native speaker myself. The scenes with her and Daemon in the pilot are pretty good insofar as they flesh out Daemon's vulnerability and insecurity. The guy is really afraid that his brother might no longer love/need him. Their relationship also seems to be a pretty stable partnership there, which is furthered deepened in the (unfortunately montaged) scene at the end where Daemon introduces her to Caraxes and they fly away.

Their talk in episode 2 pretty much sucks, though. Silly lines like 'I came to you to be liberated from fear' do not just cause Daemon to raise his eyebrows. They just don't make any sense. In the pilot it is clearly Daemon looking for comfort and support with Mysaria at her place, not the other way around. Daemon is insecure and fearful deep down, while Mysaria clearly is the stronger one both in the brothel scenes as well as the Dragonstone scenes. We see this especially with Mysaria loathing it to be a pawn in Daemon's game with his brother. As a general plot point that was a good decision there.

She is not a person who is afraid, and she wouldn't team up with Daemon to be freed from fear ... but to gain power. We see that this is what she acquires even without Daemon later on, so it is clear what she is about.

Going with Mysaria making herself infertile permanently also strikes one as a rather hamfisted way to make a statement against 'women are baby machines in Westeros'. Moon tea does provide women with a very effective means of birth control, so Mysaria wouldn't have to take more draconian/permanent measure. (Of course, George's own writing doesn't really fit well together there - we have so many royal and noblewomen die in childbirth that it seems that pretty much no royal or noblewoman actually does use moon tea to prevent unwanted pregnancies. That's only stuff cool women like Asha Greyjoy do.) Even more so since she is working in the sex trade and is thus more likely to be harmed or killed by sexually transmitted diseases than by death in childbirth.

I think the whole relationship breakup there should have been more about Daemon's true love/affection lying with Viserys and Rhaenyra rather than Mysaria. Their conversation there could have been the point in the story where Mysaria points out to Daemon that the woman he truly wants is his niece, not she. Something Daemon might not even have realized or admitted to himself at this point.

While I actually do like their take on Mysaria as somebody who has a commoner perspective on things ... conceptually this doesn't fit with their silly 'violence is irrelevant unless we arbitrarily decide it isn't' worldbuilding premise. If you have a character who is driven by the fact that the common people suffer under current regime then the fact that these very people actually don't have any issues with arbitrary violence kind of clashes with that.

Conceptually the show writers are inconsistent. They do not depict violence or injustices to make a statement about inherent injustices in the political or economical framework of the world they are describing. Instead they actually hammer home the fact - perhaps unintentionally - that only royalty and high nobility are 'real people' since violence and injustices done to them clearly matter - whereas commoners being killed by dragons or princes and noblemen killing each other for effectively no reason at all clearly do not matter. The worst part of that is the inconsistency on the highest levels when we see royal bodyguards and princes killing people with impunity in front of the king have no consequences ... while a minor brawl between a royal bodyguard and the commander of the City Watch causes a big scandal. Or contrast the scene where Viserys I confronts Daemon with his Kingsguard in the pilot with the later murder of Vaemond Velaryon. Those seem to be two scenes taking place in two different worlds. They don't fit together. It is okay that Viserys doesn't punish Daemon afterwards ... but there should have been at least a reaction to this outrageous behavior from the people there, including the king.

Edited May 16, 2023 by Lord Varys

[Lord Varys]

'The Second of His Name' works pretty well as an episode - but it is clearly a jump too far ahead. Rhaenyra's entire plot is botched by this episode. Yes, it is good that the show deals with the problem of Viserys finally having a son and not naming him heir in Rhaenyra's place. That was a good call. However, Rhaenyra's entire story in the first three episodes is 'a girl cannot be monarch'. That's it. We get this in the pilot, we get it in episode 2 where she isn't included in the council, told to pick bodyguards, and lectured by a bitter aging woman.

We never get a Rhaenyra who actually is 'the Realm's Delight' the girl/young woman at the center of attention of court and Realm alike - which she would have been, in part, as the king's only child even before she was named heir ... but even more so thereafter.

Basically the show is missing an episode named 'The Realm's Delight' taking place prior to 'The Second of His Name' starting with the king's second wedding, then covering a grand progress where Rhaenyra tours the Realm with Syrax while Viserys and Alicent stay back home. This is where we could have seen how she is at the center of attention. They could have also shown some cracks there - an interestiong popularity contest dynamic between Rhaenyra and Alicent at the wedding, the episode ending with Aegon's birth while Rhaenyra returns on Syrax at the same time - and Viserys effectively runs to the window or on a balcony happy to finally see his darling girl again. Or he runs outside to welcome Rhaenyra in the castle yard where she is landing with her dragon ... while Alicent stays behind in her birthing bed and has to deliver Aegon without her husband.

Such a progress could also have allowed Rhaenyra to hook up/connect with various men - the Strongs, the Lannister twins, the deepening of her thing with Criston Cole. It would also have helped to make the Stepstones thing better, by intercutting things with it. If Rhaenyra had spurned Jason in such an earlier episode, the match for her in 'The Second of His Name' could have been Otto's nephew Ormund Hightower

But back to the episode at hand. I like a lot about it, but sullen and lonely Rhaenyra there is too much. She should have her own coterie of fanboys and fangirls already, and they really missed the chance to have Harwin Strong and Criston Cole both vying for her attention there. Also the fact that Alicent is basically just a little mouse the entire time when she should have been at the center of attention as the mother to the king's son. Having her heavily pregnant certainly would limit her role to a point, but she should have been more happy and more active.

It also feel quite weird that Larys Strong would hit on Alicent from the start - I mean, is there anything wrong with Rhaenyra's feet? She is still the heir and, unlike Alicent, without a betrothed or husband so far.

Rhaenyra's talk with the women doesn't feel particularly bratty to me. Lady Lannister is clearly picking on House Targaryen as a whole there, by way of picking on Daemon.

There is a big dramaturgy problem with Rhaenyra riding away and then nobody caring about that for too long a time. Eventually, Viserys is told that Criston Cole is likely with her, but they should have sent men after her at once. Criston Cole is kind of silly in his reluctance to declare his full loyalty to Rhaenyra when she asks about the Realm accepting her as queen. If he has a thing for her he should have at least said something along the lines of 'I'll always be your man!'

And, yes, there is no excuse for Jason not making the joke about having a lot of gold dragons to offer.

Really great is the subtle depiction of the different parenting attitudes between Viserys and Otto. Viserys actually cares about his daughter and wants her to be happy - he is even man enough to say so. For Otto a daughter is just a pawn. She will do what the king or her father tells her, and that's it. That can help explain why Otto was stupid enough to make Rhaenyra the heir but his later speech also shows his inability that not everybody in the Realm might have his lack of imagination regarding a Queen Regnant.

They fail to play up Rhaenyra getting bloodied in the episode - we see some brief looks exchanged when she returns and Harwin's grin is great there, but it could have been better with some dialogue.

The Stepstones campaign is clearly missing Rhaenys and Meleys ... but aside from that I found the scenes pretty good during the rewatch. I can totally see myself as Craghas Drahar falling for the ruse because it is just too much to see one guy who pretended to yield to kill so many of my men.

[The Bard of Banefort]

It is inconceivable that Ryan Condal, book nerd that he is, did not include the gold dragons joke. He must be kicking himself for that now.

Otto may see Alicent as a pawn, but he also shows a certain deference to her as queen. One of the more interesting things about his character is how he always seems vaguely impressed whenever Alicent asserts herself—a huge difference from Tywin, who always shuts Cersei down when she tries to do the same. He also shows some understanding in E3 that convincing Viserys to change the succession won’t be easy.

A progress between the second and third episode would have given Rhaenyra and Criston more time to bond, which I would have appreciated, since they didn’t really do much of that prior to having sex. I think that, realistically, Rhaenyra would have felt compelled to come to Alicent’s side during the birth upon seeing how frightened she was. It would have reminded Rhaenyra of her mother. (Another weird decision: why wasn’t Rhaenyra attending her mother during the birth?)

It was quite disturbing seeing teenage Alicent hugely pregnant with this old man’s child. That’s definitely one of those things that hits differently in a visual medium than in a book. 

At first, it looked like Larys was going to fall in love with Alicent, in his own creepy way. But then they took a turn and went straight off the cliff into him just being a psychopath who gets off on having power over her. I preferred the twisted love story angle.

[Lord Varys]

2 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Otto may see Alicent as a pawn, but he also shows a certain deference to her as queen. One of the more interesting things about his character is how he always seems vaguely impressed whenever Alicent asserts herself—a huge difference from Tywin, who always shuts Cersei down when she tries to do the same. He also shows some understanding in E3 that convincing Viserys to change the succession won’t be easy.

I'd have to look for that in future episodes, but so far I don't see it. Otto is formally correct in addressing his queen, but their is no respect for her there. He lectures her and tell her what to do. And he manipulates her to get her to do what he wants. He quickly realizes that Alicent is not keen to push Viserys to change the succession now, so he doesn't press it. But he gave her instruction what Hightower policy at court now is and he expects her to play along. After her outbrust in the Aemond affair he effectively insults her with his assessment that she didn't have the stomach for their business ... and Alicent herself makes it clear they are no team and never have been in episode 9. That doesn't bode well for them working closely together next season. With Criston being effectively Alicent's lacking she might be the one pushing Aegon to sack Otto and replace him with Criston.

In Otto's defense we can say for the show - which is something I always liked about it - that the originator of that policy is actually not Ser Otto Hightower but his elder brother, the Lord of Oldtown. He is the guy behind the great hunt and he is the one who effectively instructed his younger brother to get Aegon on the throne.

Otto Hightower genuinely sees himself as a friend of Viserys I. He respects his wishes to a point, and he knows how he thinks. That friendship would be over after Viserys dismisses Otto later on ... but up until then it is there.

2 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

A progress between the second and third episode would have given Rhaenyra and Criston more time to bond, which I would have appreciated, since they didn’t really do much of that prior to having sex. I think that, realistically, Rhaenyra would have felt compelled to come to Alicent’s side during the birth upon seeing how frightened she was. It would have reminded Rhaenyra of her mother. (Another weird decision: why wasn’t Rhaenyra attending her mother during the birth?)

I'd have written such an episode in such a way that the progress lasts effectively the entire pregnancy, with the passing of time depicted by way of showing the Stepstones thing, the pregnancy in KL, and Rhaenyra really visiting the entire Realm - although the end could certainly involve her coming back for the birth.

I don't think it was odd to not have a daughter at the birth.

2 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

It was quite disturbing seeing teenage Alicent hugely pregnant with this old man’s child. That’s definitely one of those things that hits differently in a visual medium than in a book. 

Viserys the character isn't *that old*. He says he was 17 when he married Aemma, so let's say Rhaenyra was the first child they ever had in the show and she was born shortly after the wedding, with the miscarriages, stillbirths and the dead boy in the cradle happening between Great Council and pilot then he would be still in his late 30s when marrying Alicent. Considine is much older than that, I think. But I agree that he pretty much appears like a grandfather with Emily-Alicent.

2 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

At first, it looked like Larys was going to fall in love with Alicent, in his own creepy way. But then they took a turn and went straight off the cliff into him just being a psychopath who gets off on having power over her. I preferred the twisted love story angle.

He could still be kind of in love with her ... while also enjoying to make her squirm. But that whole take there with vulnerable lonely Alicent really doesn't make much sense.

[Lord Varys]

The continuity of Rhaenyra's cake jokes is also quite fun. That seems to be a dig at her portrayal in the book. First we have her wanting to do nothing but eating cake, then she chides Lady Redwyne for overindulging herself on cake - which I actually enjoyed. The gang was subtly shitting on House Targaryen there ... and it is good to see a female character pointing out that women sitting on their asses and criticizing the men for their actions while not even trying to do something themselves is not exactly a courageous thing to do for a noblewoman.

Noblewomen do have a lot of informal power, some real power, and they always have the ability to seize more power. Westeros has seen his share of female general, war leaders, regents, etc.

Thinking a bit more about a 'The Realm's Delight' episode - there could have been a cool double meaning to the name there - Rhaenyra being the one who is given the name, but Aegon's birth at the end of the episode being also a delight to the Realm - or a certain portion of the Realm.

Really noticing now that the introduction of the Strong boys was pretty much botched. With Lyonel Strong being there from the start, we should have seen (especially) Harwin from the pilot on. Harwin could have been a contender in the lists, Larys sitting next to Lyonel in the royal box. We could have also seen Harwin as a member of the City Watch, either working closely with or clashing with Daemon. We could have seen the Strongs among the lords swearing fealty to Rhaenyra. In episode 2, Harwin could have been among the men Otto took with him to Dragonstone, and in episode 3, as I said, he could have been among the proto-Blacks seeking Rhaenyra's favor that should have been there.

It is a shame that they get so little screentime there.

[Lord Varys]

Moving on to episode 4:

Ah, that one was a tough one.

The positive thing is that I really like the music they use most of the time, especially in the openings. It strengthens the feeling that those a historical, larger-than-life figures.

Having the episode start at Storm's End isn't bad ... but a suitor tour after Viserys had told Rhaenyra last episode that she would be allowed to choose her own husband completely undercuts that. There it would have been much better to have the anniversary tourney as a setting drawing many men to KL giving Rhaenyra the opportunity to not listen to weird candidates giving rehearsed speeches ... but actually getting to know them formally and informally. There we could have opened with a grand tourney scene and Daemon stealing the show with Caraxes by landing on the tourney grounds, crushing the lists, horses throwing men and trampling them (to death), etc.

A missed opportunity there clearly is to not introduce Borros Baratheon then and there, perhaps as a younger son of Lord Boremund, being rejected by Rhaenyra because of his illiteracy or stupidity. The Four Storms are younger than Aemond and he is not yet born, so it would make sense that Borros would be unwed at the time and eager to marry the princess.

Rhaenyra's reactions to the suitors are completely understandable. She is pretty gentle with both of them, especially Simon Dondarrion whose proposal cannot be viewed as anything but an insult. Whereas the Blackwood lad shows his courage in presenting himself - but cannot really hope to be successful. But at least he tried, like Fool Frey in the book.

The duel again hammers home the fact that the depiction of violence sucks and is inconsistent. Lord Boremund even tells the guys to sheathe their swords - they don't listen, but it has no consequences. That Rhaenyra doesn't give a damn is acceptable since she starts leaving even before the fighting begins.

The dragon issue there is laughable. Syrax should have been there, not a ship, and Rhaenyra should have shown how little she cared about the tour by jumping on her dragon and flying away, abandoning her retinue. We also have the Bracken guy explicitly mention her dragon ... but this is TV, so show, don't tell. We all know she has a dragon, so fucking show it. We but saw Syrax twice, and having her on the progress would be the perfect opportunity for another glimpse. Caraxes ramming the ship is complete nonsense.

At court the reconciliation between Viserys and Daemon is fine. Otto really looks like a vulture perching on the throne there. You really can see that he hates that Daemon guy. He cannot help himself. In the short council scene Rhaenyra finally having a seat is a good thing - not so much that she doesn't have anything to say.

The fact that they apparently cut scenes covering Viserys' reaction to Rhaenyra's early return is felt during the garden party scene. Viserys deliberately ignores Rhaenyra, and you don't really understand why. Viserys enjoying himself with Daemon works pretty fine. Ditto with the Rhaenyra-Alicent scene ... although that would have been a better scene when they are both younger. Daemon makes it clear four years passed since he parted from Rhaenyra on Dragonstone, which means she is nineteen years old now (she was 15 in episode 2). That is too old for such naiveté.

And that is also the problem for the entire 'stroll in the city' sequence. A nineteen-year-old woman doesn't behave like a fourteen-year-old girl when some stranger mistakes her for a 'boy'. Rhaenyra would be beyond such behavior at that point in her life. It also feels forced to have Daemon explain marriage as a political arrangement to Rhaenyra. That she should have figured out all by herself. Also that she can have fun if she is discreet. Saera didn't need some uncle for that, either. Either go with the novel and have a 14-15-year-old girl doing this ... or do the kind of thing I suggest below:

The stroll in the city should have been something Rhaenyra came up with. After all, she lived at the castle her entire life, while Daemon was just a rare visitor. She should have found a secret passageway, putting the map in Daemon's chambers. We should have had a development through multiple episodes there - first her realizing that men can be interesting and fun during the progress episode I'd have liked to see. Then her and Criston exchanging kisses while they are alone in the forest ... and then Rhaenyra revealing to Daemon that she has always known how to sneak out of the castle in disguise to enjoy herself. Going to the brothel could then be Daemon's idea while Rhaenyra used to just go to inns and shows.

It would also have made a lot of sense for Rhaenyra to be more straightforward with Daemon about what she actually wanted him to be to her - she clearly wants him there, but it remains open whether she viewed him as a potential husband or merely a lover. The way the scene is played doesn't indicate Daemon has performance problems but rather that he has second thoughts about putting Rhaenyra in a really bad position.

Thinking more about Mysaria my idea is that she may have sold Rhaenyra out to Otto there to kind of better Daemon's position as neutralizing Rhaenyra as heir would have moved Daemon closer to the throne. But really difficult to say in light of the fact that there is only one scene.

Queen 'I'm still the Lady Alicent' Alicent is really weird in that episode - she has neither companions, nor servants, nor - apparently - friends at court. That just doesn't make sense. While Alicent makes her own tea (!), blows out her own candles (!!), Rhaenyra even has to dress herself (!!!) and combs her own hair!!!! That just doesn't make any sense. Neither Alicent as Viserys' master washerwoman. Something like that could make sense in a really intimate scene ... but not as her intervening with Viserys' general wellness regimen.

Playing up Rhaenyra being 'soiled' as a problem is also something that takes things too far. Daemon is perfectly right that Viserys decides how to view and treat his daughter (and him), and Rhaenyra has the right of it there, too. More importantly, though, Rhaenyra is not just a princess and the Heir Apparent but also a dragonrider. She is a political power in her own right, somebody the king and the Realm might have to call upon in a war. Viserys cannot really treat her just like Jaehaerys treated Saera. Also, of course, a female Heir Apparent and dragonrider isn't married because she is a virgin ... but for her blood, for her claim, and for her dragon - as Rhaenyra points out to Alicent. The twice-widowed Queen Rhaena marries Androw Farman to keep suitors at bay - and even that doesn't stop the Lannisters from trying.

The Velaryon threat is kind of played up too much there - this could have been better if we had also seen or heard that Laena had mounted Vhagar.

Otto is pretty good in that episode. Since we see him in private it is clear that he is not keen or eager to tell Viserys about Rhaenyra's exploits. But it would have been good to have a scene where Otto then pushed Alicent to ensure Viserys does change the succession after he has been told. When Viserys tells Otto that he wants to destroy Viserys' blood to put his own on the throne we should have had Otto reply that Aegon is Viserys' blood, too - or Viserys should have talked about Aemma's blood vs. Otto's/Alicent's.

Biggest character missing in that episode: AEGON! It is very odd that he wasn't there in the throne room scene as a toddler about four years old and/or later with the adults in the garden scene - Daemon could have frightened him there or given him an unpleasant look. We could have seen some Rhaenyra-Aegon interaction - she could have dragged him along when she went to the bench where Alicent sought her out. Later she could have sent Aegon away with a nanny while talking to Daemon in the godswood. When we see Alicent with young Helaena, Aegon could have been there, too. We could also have seen how Alicent felt about and cared for young Aegon. Was she proud of him? Doting on him? Had Otto's lecture from last episode taken root to a point already? Would have been great to see.

Rhaenyra apparently isn't that much into cakes, after all, eating only the orange slice off the cake...

Liked the Rhaenyra-Criston sex scene better this time. Viserys sending for Alicent to visit him strikes one as odd since it seems kings usually seemed to have visited their wives in their chambers, rather than the other way around. But the entire thing clearly is not a royal command, so Alicent could have excused herself. She wasn't forced to have intercourse with Viserys there - but we can certainly understand why she felt she had to do this. However, I think that the character of Alicent Hightower isn't the best raw material to tell a story about a woman marrying into a royal family who lives to please her husband at her own expense. For that Alicent has too much agency and ambition - or should have if we go with the FaB source material. Or perhaps only at this point in her story. Alicent could have been treated as a pawn eager to please in episode 1 & 2 ... but no longer in 3 & 4.

In summary, that episode doesn't really hold up all that well.

Edited May 16, 2023 by Lord Varys

[Lord Varys]

And on to 'We Light the Way':

Rhea Royce's actress is far too young for Daemon ... and it is silly that they have her as the heir to Runestone when she was its lady already. What was the point of that silly change?

Looking on things on a larger screen, I feel the scene doesn't suck to the same degree. Rhea is on the way home and we can see a castle behind Daemon in the background, presumably Runestone. So he arrived there, presumably on dragonback (with the dragon nowhere in sight, of course), learned that his dear lady wife was on a hunt and awaited her return.

Strangely enough, I don't think the whole thing has to be interpreted as a premeditated murder. He just stands there, possibly not knowing what he wants to do. It is Rhea who concludes that he might want to kill her and her fear that triggers the horse to throw her, unless I'm mistaken.

The actual murder afterwards looks more like a mercy killing than a premeditated thing. When he steps on her arm he seems to test whether she still feels any pain or can move her arm ... which she can't. And her final insult to him might very well be her goading him into killing her because she didn't want to live that way.

That said - it is still not exactly well shot, nor does the later talk make much sense. If Daemon wanted to claim Runestone for himself, he would have done so after Rhea's death. He should have also attended her funeral, meaning her cousin would have confronted him earlier.

The drag to Driftmark is kind of silly. There should have been talk as to why they didn't fly on dragonback (Syrax would be large enough for Rhaenyra and Viserys) and the island of Driftmark is not just completely empty but also lacking of dragons. Both Seasmoke and Meleys should be kept outside the castle, with Rhaenyra and Laenor perhaps visiting them during their walk.

No idea if any scenes were written, shot, cut which give background to Corlys' voyages, but nobody gives a damn about High Tide or the Hall of Nine if we don't fucking know who Corlys Velaryon actually is and what he did accomplish. The guy is only stubbornly ambitious. The talk between Rhaenys and Corlys should have things reversed - she should have been ambitious and he should have been cautious - he is Mr. Peacemaker Guy later, according to the book, so Rhaenys should have been the one wanting her son as king consort and her grandchild on the throne. Eve Best plays the character well, but the writing is just bad for her. And it still feels childish that Corlys would actually think Laenor would outgrow his taste for men. The guy would have lived all his life in an all male environment at sea ... he would have gotten his decent share of romances and relationships among seamen, and would have also learned that such people use to tend to go from guy to guy if it is up to them.

The Velaryon family had the chance to be more inclusive and tolerant than they are actually portrayed.

Something I just realized is missing are nicknames - Viserys could have been Vis to close family, Rhaenyra Rhae or Nyra, Rhaenys Rhae or Nyssa, Alicent Allie, and so on.

Otto and Alicent are kind of okay, but Alicent should have been more on page Aegon at that point ... and speaking about Aegon: The fact that he is nowhere to be seen and apparently doesn't attend his half-sister's wedding makes absolutely no sense. Helaena's absence is okay as she is still a babe, but Aegon isn't. Aegon should have been there in Targaryen colors during the farewell scene with Otto. It is good to see that Otto is the father of the 'Rhaenyra has to kill your children to secure her throne' idea ... and that this is effectively just a narrative he uses to manipulate his daughter. I don't think he himself actually believes that. But it is very fitting and badly reflecting on him and his goons later on that they prepare to murder Rhaenyra and her family to secure Aegon's throne.

Larys Strong's manipulation is completely unnecessary and kind of weird. Why would he do that at this point? Why not try to gain Alicent's favor in a different way? And why does Alicent need to be manipulated there - it would have been better to have her agitated after she sent her father off, turning on her own volition to Larys or somebody else for information on Rhaenyra.

Both Criston Cole talks make sense, and I do like how Rhaenyra's biggest issue in rejecting him is her duty to prophecy and destiny, not so much a desire to rule. But Criston cannot know this, and so she comes across as pretty harsh. Alicent being visibly stricken about Criston's confession also makes sense if you think what kind of taboo he and Rhaenyra broke there. Whoever does that, is capable of a lot of other things ... or so Alicent might think. But I think the scene is missing a proper conclusion - Alicent indicating that she wouldn't rat out Criston and giving a reason for that.

Viserys and Lyonel are fine, too, although Viserys collapses far too often considering that he is going to live for about 20 years thereafter. The whole setting seemed to indicate that Viserys may have even died at the end - which a lot of the non-book reader audience thought.

The wedding reception is also not that bad for the most part. But there should have been more guests, perhaps the Starks and most definitely Lady Jeyne Arryn as Rhaenyra's cousin. Aegon should have come into the throne room together with Alicent, and we should have seen some people cheering him - especially the Hightowers - creating some tension in the hall and on the royal podium.

Don't like the lack of familiarity between Laena and Daemon. They should have gone with 'cousin' there, rather than 'my prince'.

The Criston Cole rampage is absolutely inexcusable. It makes no sense at all. The guy even strikes Laenor in front of witnesses, a member of the extended royal family, and now the future king consort. The notion that Laenor, in turn, would allow that mad freak to train his sons at arms later is absolutely ludicrous. As is the fact that he can remain a KG. That is like Meryn Trant continuing on the KG after he struck, say, Selyse Baratheon for some reason. But the murder of Joffrey in and of itself is also inexcusable and would have needed an explanation. The guy bashes his head in. And there is no indication that the guy ever wanted to do anything to anyone. Yet even if he could convince people that Joffrey wanted to murder somebody (no idea who that could have been in light of the fact that Joff and Criston where nowhere near a member of the royal family - and most definitely not the king or Rhaenyra) - his unhinged reaction should make it clear to all that he was, perhaps, suited to guard the royal hunting dogs but not members of the royal family.

Even with an episode taking place thereafter trying to resolve this issue ... it would have likely not worked. Because it makes no sense.

They really failed to make use of Harwin Strong in the first five episodes. Both he and the Velaryon children could have been more prominent. In fact, we could have had the impression that Rhaenyra and Alicent grew up together with the Velaryon and Strong children.

A tidbit I very much liked was the quick shot on Lyman Beesbury when Laenor and Rhaenyra are celebrated. Honest loyalist, that man.

Being through with the first half of the season, I have to stay I still enjoyed it pretty much. Despite there being a lot of problems.

Edited May 16, 2023 by Lord Varys

[Lord Varys]

Just thinking a bit more about the Larys Strong issue:

I think the better way to have him there would have to show him real vulnerability in his early scenes at court ... best accomplished if we had it implied or confirmed that the Strong boys grew up with Alicent and Rhaenyra and the Velaryon children at court.

Larys could have had secret hopes of marrying Alicent himself prior to Otto's schemes to make her queen. Alicent could have been nice to Larys, noticing her was attracted to her, without really encouraging him deliberately or giving him hope for her hand. Although I think it would have good if there had been an indication that Alicent had set her eyes on somebody that wasn't Viserys ... or that Otto originally had another plan for her - Laenor Velaryon springs to mind, and also Lyonel (who should be a widower at that time) or Harwin Strong. With Otto being the Hand we have to assume that before the opportunity presented itself to make Alicent queen he would have wanted her to marry a great lord or a great lord's heir.

As the episodes progress and Alicent becomes queen we could have seen Alicent turn to Larys of her own volition, knowing his weakness for her, exploiting it, because she noticed or knew for her time as children that her was very perceptive and lifed to ferret out secrets. That way we would have a Larys who is actually a proper 'foot slave' there, and who is not in charge of the relationship there - both because Alicent would be the queen but, more importantly, also because she always would have had the upper hand in their relationship.

We could have also seen Alicent advancing Larys at court, arranging his appointment as Lord Confessor with Viserys and/or her father, and eventually pushing Viserys to name him to the Small Council - where he should have been as he was in the book when Viserys died.

The dynamics during the Strong murders should also have been somewhat different, I think, but I'll talk about then when I rewatched the next episode.

I must say that rewatching things I'm pretty flabbergasted that they didn't introduce more characters earlier in time. They wouldn't have to do more, just be there - like, as I said, Harwin and Larys could have been in the royal box with their father in the pilot, Harwin among Daemon's gold cloaks, etc. Having the Strong boys only in episode 3 is a mistake - and more so not having Larys in episode 4.

Also, as I said, with Borros Baratheon not being in episode 4, or Jeyne Arryn and Rickon Stark (without Cregan) not showing up for Rhaenyra's wedding. In fact, the Royce cousin could have been dropped from the wedding scene with Lady Jeyne - sitting on the podium as a relation of the royal family - confronting Daemon about the (alleged) murder of his wife. She could have shown teeth there, threatening to have his head were he to show himself in the Vale again. It could have also given us a glimpse as to how Jeyne stood to Viserys and Rhaenyra in general - a relationship that is sadly also not developed in the book.

And as others have already said, the perfect opportunity to introduce Jeyne was in the pilot - where she and other Arryns would have been for the tourney and then subsequently attending the funeral of Queen Aemma as well as Rhaenyra's investiture as heir - where the scene of Jeyne Arryn kneeling in front of the Iron Throne and swearing her fealty to Rhaenyra could have powerfully hammered home the fact that there are powerful women in their own right in this world ... and that this 'women cannot rule' mantra that is so often repeated is actually not true in the Seven Kingdoms outside Dorne. It is hard(er) for women than men, but not impossible nor does it never happen.

Have a kind of little implicated subplot about the question whether the Vale will stand with Rhaenyra after the Rhea Royce affair could have been more powerful - and giving more gravitas to Jace's mission in the season finale - than the whole thing they were spinning about 'Velaryon neutrality' and 'Velaryon reluctance to turn Black'.

Rhaenys and Corlys should have been in team Black from the moment of the Rhaenyra-Laenor and the Daemon-Laena match. They could have played up some tension there over the Strong affair ... but all that should and would have gone away with the Daemon-Rhaenyra marriage which makes both Laenor's legal sons as well as Laena's daughters part of a big Targaryen patchwork family. Corlys and Rhaenys could not entangle themselves from this net even if they tried - and they would have no motive to do so even before Laena's daughters are betrothed to Rhaenyra's sons because having your grandchildren as the (step-)children of the future monarch is the best thing you could hope for.

But I get ahead of myself there.

[Lord Varys]

Since the show had that big time jump between episode 5 and 6 I think it is only proper that I also stopped the rewatch there, for a time.

So far I think that is the worst episode of the season. There are a lot of issues with character motivation and acting here, especially Olivia Cooke's strangely half-mad and unhinged approach to Alicent. I'm not sure what this is - didn't they do enough or proper rewrites on that script?

The opening is fine, the birth, the forced visit to Alicent. But the dragon in the room is not raised at all ... why the hell is Harwin Strong the father of Rhaenyra's three sons? What caused them to get together in the first place and why was no attempt made (that we know of) to have at least one child fathered by Laenor Velaryon? In light of the fact that they do get along reasonably well this is rather important question. And speaking about the Strongs - having Lyonel having such issues over the Rhaenyra thing is odd, too. They play this issue up too much. Rhaenyra's sons are Lyonel Strong's grandsons and the eldest of those would be king one day. That would be a big thing for him.

Worse is, of course, the depiction of Larys Strong. Great feet or not ... him murdering his own father and brother to please Alicent comes totally out of the left field. There should have been some buildup for that, especially since House Strong's fortunes - and Larys' own - would have profited much more if he had tied himself to Rhaenyra. It is also pretty bad we don't know that he is the Lord Confessor nor what comes with that office.

The continued presence of the butcher Cole is inexcusable and nonsensical in rewatch as expected, even more so the silly notion he would also act as the master-at-arms of the Red Keep. He is a bodyguard, not a trainer ... and while he eventually trains (with) Aemond he wouldn't have done that job for Rhaenyra's sons - Laenor would have never had that, nor would Rhaenyra. The exchange over the naming of Joffrey Velaryon is also odd as hell since Alicent's toxic remark about it being not a Velaryon name should have caused Laenor to explode over the fact that the murderer of Joffrey Lonmouth was actually standing outside guarding the queen's door. In fact, the better thing for that naming should have been to see it as a threat against Cole and his protector Alicent, as Joffrey Velaryon might very well grow up to settle scores with Cole in the name of his late namesake.

While the Dragonpit scene is quite nice it is bad that Helaena is missing there since we could have seen her with Dreamfyre. Aegon's reintroduction is a bit bad as it is hard to swallow he would be this naive and stupid after ten years of tutelage by his mother. Not giving him scenes with Rhaenyra at all is also pretty bad. Ditto with Viserys.

The king not intervening in the silly Cole scene also feels off. The guy is brutalizing his grandsons with impunity. He is sworn to protect the royal family, not beat them up.

Laenor-Rhaenyra feels a bit weird, too. Them getting along is not bad, but having Rhaenyra chide Laenor for manly desires like going to war feels silly ... it would have been better if they had been friendly without having much (or anything) in common. Martial Laenor is a guy Rhaenyra should have actually liked.

Pretty okay with the Laena-Daemon plot aside from the ending, although the dragon flight scene is still pointless, especially igniting the air and flying through fireballs. What comes off as odd is that we don't learn why they are travelers. In the book they are effectively exiled, so they should have alluded to that, with Laena urging Daemon to petition Viserys for their return and him being too proud to do that. Laena's suicide would be better if they had included confirmation that the child was dead in the womb and would inevitably kill Laena, too. Then they could have turned 'death by dragon' into some kind of ancient Valyrian dragonlord custom in the face of certain defeat/loss of face - akin to the suicide practices of ancient Roman nobility. Randomly going outside by yourself feels kind of cheap and pitiful. It would have been more powerful if Daemon and the girls had been with Laena there.

More later.

[Ser Arthurs Dawn]

On 5/5/2023 at 12:28 PM, Lord Varys said:

Don't have much problems with the accent, being no English native speaker myself.

I would have never guessed. Your English is very eloquent (and better than mine.) What's your native language, if you don't mind my asking?

[The Bard of Banefort]

On 10/12/2023 at 7:58 AM, Lord Varys said:

Since the show had that big time jump between episode 5 and 6 I think it is only proper that I also stopped the rewatch there, for a time.

So far I think that is the worst episode of the season. There are a lot of issues with character motivation and acting here, especially Olivia Cooke's strangely half-mad and unhinged approach to Alicent. I'm not sure what this is - didn't they do enough or proper rewrites on that script?

The opening is fine, the birth, the forced visit to Alicent. But the dragon in the room is not raised at all ... why the hell is Harwin Strong the father of Rhaenyra's three sons? What caused them to get together in the first place and why was no attempt made (that we know of) to have at least one child fathered by Laenor Velaryon? In light of the fact that they do get along reasonably well this is rather important question. And speaking about the Strongs - having Lyonel having such issues over the Rhaenyra thing is odd, too. They play this issue up too much. Rhaenyra's sons are Lyonel Strong's grandsons and the eldest of those would be king one day. That would be a big thing for him.

Worse is, of course, the depiction of Larys Strong. Great feet or not ... him murdering his own father and brother to please Alicent comes totally out of the left field. There should have been some buildup for that, especially since House Strong's fortunes - and Larys' own - would have profited much more if he had tied himself to Rhaenyra. It is also pretty bad we don't know that he is the Lord Confessor nor what comes with that office.

The continued presence of the butcher Cole is inexcusable and nonsensical in rewatch as expected, even more so the silly notion he would also act as the master-at-arms of the Red Keep. He is a bodyguard, not a trainer ... and while he eventually trains (with) Aemond he wouldn't have done that job for Rhaenyra's sons - Laenor would have never had that, nor would Rhaenyra. The exchange over the naming of Joffrey Velaryon is also odd as hell since Alicent's toxic remark about it being not a Velaryon name should have caused Laenor to explode over the fact that the murderer of Joffrey Lonmouth was actually standing outside guarding the queen's door. In fact, the better thing for that naming should have been to see it as a threat against Cole and his protector Alicent, as Joffrey Velaryon might very well grow up to settle scores with Cole in the name of his late namesake.

While the Dragonpit scene is quite nice it is bad that Helaena is missing there since we could have seen her with Dreamfyre. Aegon's reintroduction is a bit bad as it is hard to swallow he would be this naive and stupid after ten years of tutelage by his mother. Not giving him scenes with Rhaenyra at all is also pretty bad. Ditto with Viserys.

The king not intervening in the silly Cole scene also feels off. The guy is brutalizing his grandsons with impunity. He is sworn to protect the royal family, not beat them up.

Laenor-Rhaenyra feels a bit weird, too. Them getting along is not bad, but having Rhaenyra chide Laenor for manly desires like going to war feels silly ... it would have been better if they had been friendly without having much (or anything) in common. Martial Laenor is a guy Rhaenyra should have actually liked.

Pretty okay with the Laena-Daemon plot aside from the ending, although the dragon flight scene is still pointless, especially igniting the air and flying through fireballs. What comes off as odd is that we don't learn why they are travelers. In the book they are effectively exiled, so they should have alluded to that, with Laena urging Daemon to petition Viserys for their return and him being too proud to do that. Laena's suicide would be better if they had included confirmation that the child was dead in the womb and would inevitably kill Laena, too. Then they could have turned 'death by dragon' into some kind of ancient Valyrian dragonlord custom in the face of certain defeat/loss of face - akin to the suicide practices of ancient Roman nobility. Randomly going outside by yourself feels kind of cheap and pitiful. It would have been more powerful if Daemon and the girls had been with Laena there.

More later.

I think that’s just Olivia’s default setting. She gives off a kind of crazed energy in interviews too.

It makes sense that Lyonel is worried about what Harwin’s affair could mean for all of them, especially the children. What’s less sensible is why he’s suddenly angry now, three kids in. 

I never understood the logic of how Harwin beating Cole confirmed that Harwin was the father. Wouldn’t you be more likely to break out in a rage if someone was spreading lies about you?

Larys became too hammy. He started scheming in E5, then outed himself as a psychopath by E6. He and Alicent have apparently been meeting in secret for ten years, and she’s willing to pour out all of her troubles to him. Would she really do that if he hadn’t managed to earn her trust in some way?

George wrote a mushy blog post about how much he likes Harwin/Rhaenyra after this episode, which makes it even more disappointing that their relationship is given so little context. Because you’re right, we really don’t know why she fell for this guy. She later told Daemon that “it felt good to be desired,” but plenty of men desired her. What we don’t know is why she completely devoted herself to him.

Ultimately, younger and older Rhaenyra doesn’t feel like the same character. It’s hard to imagine that the woman we see in E6 would have recklessly endangered her family by having three bastards—after all, we drop in on her as she’s giving birth to Joffrey, so it’s not like she only suddenly became a responsible adult afterwards.

[Lord Varys]

6 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I think that’s just Olivia’s default setting. She gives off a kind of crazed energy in interviews too.

It is both the acting and writing. We are to buy that Alicent really feels insulted by Rhaenyra's sons ... but why. It is also something she uses to try to undermine her, but the acting and talk implies she also hates this kind of behavior, personally. Why is that? She isn't a member of House Velaryon and none of her children (sans, perhaps, Daeron) looks like her, either, so what's her issue?

Also, rewatching the final scene it looks as if Alicent's talk there is just mostly an act. She rushes off to her table before the credits as if she is writing the very letter to Oldtown Larys was alluding to a moment ago - meaning she actually did want him to murder his father and brother for her benefit.

Struggling also with Viserys being this disinterested/weak. He should have tried to push through the Helaena-Jace match. They could have dissolved it in the wake of the loss of the Vhagar incident. And even more so with him watching the yard scene. That is too much of that in light of the fact that people fear his wrath/respect him enough to behave while he is around later.

Also weird scene with the silly rat in the rafters and Viserys kissing Aemma's ring. So he loves and misses her still, but what is the context there? And if that is so how can he allow Aemma's daughter to leave court and take her grandsons with her?

Most ridiculous and unintentionally funny line is Rhaenyra telling Laenor to bring Qarl because they will soon need swords - and then she and Daemon later do absolutely nothing to prepare for war nor to reconcile with the Velaryons after Laenor's 'death'. That is ridiculous in the book, too, but much worse in the show.

6 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

It makes sense that Lyonel is worried about what Harwin’s affair could mean for all of them, especially the children. What’s less sensible is why he’s suddenly angry now, three kids in. 

No, it is played up too much. They are not actually in danger as the only person who could endanger them is the king - and he is in team Rhaenyra. If Viserys were to be gone, Rhaenyra would be queen, and that would mean more royal favors for House Strong.

If we had Viserys wavering, if there were ways how he could be forced to not ignore this - or if there were ways how Alicent and her cronies could push for a trial without the king's involvement or permission there would be danger. But for that House Velaryon (and especially Laenor) would have had to have beef with how things are going, not Alicent.

The looks of the children are a trivial issue as Viserys points out (it would have been great if Viserys had talked about Aenys, Rhaenys and her singers rather than horses as it might very well be that he himself is the great-grandson of a bastard). They could have played up things more if Harwin had been portrayed as Rhaenyra's open paramour.

In context, we do have polygamy as a theoretical and real option on the table in the show. Daemon intends take a second wife in Mysaria, and Rhaenyra takes a second husband in Daemon. Laenor is still alive. So why not make Rhaenyra and Harwin considering to marry openly the scandalous thing in the episode? Or the idea that Queen Rhaenyra might do that one day.

6 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I never understood the logic of how Harwin beating Cole confirmed that Harwin was the father. Wouldn’t you be more likely to break out in a rage if someone was spreading lies about you?

Yeah, that doesn't work at all. Also it would also be bordering on treason for a KG to actually not keep the secrets of the royal family which he is supposed to do in addition to protecting them. The entire scene was just pretty bad, mostly for time reasons but not only for that.

6 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Larys became too hammy. He started scheming in E5, then outed himself as a psychopath by E6. He and Alicent have apparently been meeting in secret for ten years, and she’s willing to pour out all of her troubles to him. Would she really do that if he hadn’t managed to earn her trust in some way?

The talk is okay, it is Larys' actions that are odd. Especially since it might have been much better for Alicent to use Larys as a means to gather actual proof against Rhaenyra and Harwin. Getting Otto back is trivial compared to having the means to force Viserys to condemn Rhaenyra as an adulteress.

And for Larys it might also be more profitable and less dangerous to ruin Harwin to gain Harrenhal rather than getting it by way of a double murder.

6 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

George wrote a mushy blog post about how much he likes Harwin/Rhaenyra after this episode, which makes it even more disappointing that their relationship is given so little context. Because you’re right, we really don’t know why she fell for this guy. She later told Daemon that “it felt good to be desired,” but plenty of men desired her. What we don’t know is why she completely devoted herself to him.

The actors really go well together. You buy it that they love each other even if there are no actual kisses or hugs or sex scenes.

From what I remember Rhaenyra later tells Laenor she wanted the children to be his ... but why did she then also sleep with Harwin at those times? And why did it continue after Jace? The deal she made with Laenor was that they do their duty first and then have fun - and it seems they think that's what they did in the show even if the children thing didn't work out.

More context would have been nice. Which could have been there if we had gotten Harwin and Larys from the pilot on - which would have worked easily. And by ways of having more episodes. Best way could have been Laenor being unable to get Rhaenyra pregnant and Daemon-Laena leaving/being exiled increasing the demand for royal grandchildren as spares. Viserys could have been pissed that great wedding securing the future didn't yield any children.