Alternate History: The Wolf Rose Alliance

[Alden Rothack]

3 minutes ago, astarkchoice said:

Shes no assasin yet and even then shes just a lil girl any grown ass man will toss her to the floor.

Most of the frey men  actualy stay inside then the scimbags march out in full combat gear and sober into the drunk unprepared and probably unarmoured/umarmed northern forces.

Walder is nearly a hundred, hes not defending himself from a cat let alone an armed human

the men outside likely have their weapons nearby, the Freys after all lose fifty men even with total surprise

Also where did they hide that many men in armour, the twins is not that big

[astarkchoice]

16 minutes ago, Alden Rothack said:

Walder is nearly a hundred, hes not defending himself from a cat let alone an armed human

the men outside likely have their weapons nearby, the Freys after all lose fifty men even with total surprise

Also where did they hide that many men in armour, the twins is not that big

And shes like 10 in the books man , il still take the grandad over a child...esp.when said gradnad is utterly surrounded by guards

They do but drunk, unprepared and with leaders inside and to add to it remember the scummy freys also set them up in 3 huge pavillons (prepared with oil on it)  then dropped the oiled tenting onto the feasting men below and set it ablaze !!!  Maximum shock value to ensure an utter slaughter. 

The twins is technicaly 2 castles on either side of a big river connected by a stone bridge..ayra even  sees men move from one castle to the next. Walder (or.one of the freys)  specifilcay tells robb and co there isnt enough room.for his huge force  and the frey garrison   inside so they will feast in his pavilions tents set up outside! Some of them even come  out on horseback (the hound encounters and kills 3 ) to utterly make it a one sided slaughter!!!

[Alden Rothack]

4 minutes ago, astarkchoice said:

And shes like 10 in the books man , il still take the grandad over a child...esp.when said gradnad is utterly surrounded by guards

They do but drunk, unprepared and with leaders inside and to add to it remember the scummy freys also set them up in 3 huge pavillons (prepared with oil on it)  then dropped the oiled tenting onto the feasting men below and set it ablaze !!!  Maximum shock value to ensure an utter slaughter. 

The twins is technicaly 2 castles on either side of a big river connected by a stone bridge..ayra even  sees men move from one castle to the next. Walder (or.one of the freys)  specifilcay tells robb and co there isnt enough room.for his huge force  and the frey garrison   inside so they will feast in his pavilions tents set up outside! Some of them even come  out on horseback (the hound encounters and kills 3 ) to utterly make it a one sided slaughter!!!

I know, the fact that the Freys lose dozens of men despite their overwhelming advantages is why I think they would lose and lose badly if Robb and Roose were both against them.

[astarkchoice]

4 hours ago, Alden Rothack said:

I know, the fact that the Freys lose dozens of men despite their overwhelming advantages is why I think they would lose and lose badly if Robb and Roose were both against them.

Well a few were always gonna die  man you cant kill a few thousand  fighting men   without  some resistance. If roose changed his mind though hed need to plan how to cointer the suprise without giving the game away....if not the twins is barred and its a gonna take a hellva hard  siege with outside  enemies ready to relive it.

[Nevets]

10 hours ago, astarkchoice said:

Hmmm itd still be risky esp as the other stark forces have to fake getting drunk and rowdy etc convincingly. Robb himself with his mum.and wife  and almost all his officer retinue have to walk into the lions den  to sell it ! And theres still the goddamn crossbowmen...itd take some planning an dcrackerjack timing with no slip ups.

That said the rewards are big esp as without realising it arya will show up and also an out of work hound!

By the time of the Red Wedding Roose had every reason to abandon Robb and none to support him.  The Freys had abandoned him, thanks to his marriage.  Stannis lost at the Blackwater, leaving the Lannisters free to go after Robb, and with the Freys gone, he hasn't a chance.  And he's lost his own castle (thank you, Theon).  The SS Robb Stark is sinking fast; time to jump ship and join the winning side.

By the way, Robb didn't have his wife with him.  He left her back at Riverrun, and she's still alive even now.  And Arya and the Hound won't change things.  Arya is too young to be useful, and the Freys already cancelled the betrothal.  Sandor is one man; the fight is going to be too big for him to make a difference.

Once he'd lost Winterfell and Stannis lost the Blackwater, Robb was doomed.  If only one had happened, Roose might have stayed aboard.  But both? Forget it.

[astarkchoice]

15 minutes ago, Nevets said:

By the time of the Red Wedding Roose had every reason to abandon Robb and none to support him.  The Freys had abandoned him, thanks to his marriage.  Stannis lost at the Blackwater, leaving the Lannisters free to go after Robb, and with the Freys gone, he hasn't a chance.  And he's lost his own castle (thank you, Theon).  The SS Robb Stark is sinking fast; time to jump ship and join the winning side.

By the way, Robb didn't have his wife with him.  He left her back at Riverrun, and she's still alive even now.  And Arya and the Hound won't change things.  Arya is too young to be useful, and the Freys already cancelled the betrothal.  Sandor is one man; the fight is going to be too big for him to make a difference.

Once he'd lost Winterfell and Stannis lost the Blackwater, Robb was doomed.  If only one had happened, Roose might have stayed aboard.  But both? Forget it.

Agreed there

 

She cant fight byt like mucella can be bethrothed, the hound cant alter a battle no but is useful nonetheless

[Alden Rothack]

6 hours ago, astarkchoice said:

Well a few were always gonna die  man you cant kill a few thousand  fighting men   without  some resistance. If roose changed his mind though hed need to plan how to cointer the suprise without giving the game away....if not the twins is barred and its a gonna take a hellva hard  siege with outside  enemies ready to relive it.

who would be coming to relieve it, the freys are there already and outnumbered if roose changes sides, i'm not saying its going to be easy but its doable

 

3 hours ago, astarkchoice said:

Agreed there

 

She cant fight byt like mucella can be bethrothed, the hound cant alter a battle no but is useful nonetheless

anyone can alter a battle particularly if they weren't expected to be there, hes useful therefore he can alter the battle in a number of ways, if he gets inside the twins all bets are off.

[astarkchoice]

3 hours ago, Alden Rothack said:

-who would be coming to relieve it, the freys are there already and outnumbered if roose changes sides, i'm not saying its going to be easy but its doable

 

-anyone can alter a battle particularly if they weren't expected to be there, hes useful therefore he can alter the battle in a number of ways, if he gets inside the twins all bets are off.

-in that scenario the lannisters would ...itd be a way to end the war in a stroke , remember its why they couldnt siege the twins the 1st time. Its doable but at a huge cost that means the wars virtualy lost.

Hes still just one man ,  plus even  he cant turn the tide of  a  battle  that one sided

 

[SeanF]

9 hours ago, Nevets said:

By the time of the Red Wedding Roose had every reason to abandon Robb and none to support him.  The Freys had abandoned him, thanks to his marriage.  Stannis lost at the Blackwater, leaving the Lannisters free to go after Robb, and with the Freys gone, he hasn't a chance.  And he's lost his own castle (thank you, Theon).  The SS Robb Stark is sinking fast; time to jump ship and join the winning side.

By the way, Robb didn't have his wife with him.  He left her back at Riverrun, and she's still alive even now.  And Arya and the Hound won't change things.  Arya is too young to be useful, and the Freys already cancelled the betrothal.  Sandor is one man; the fight is going to be too big for him to make a difference.

Once he'd lost Winterfell and Stannis lost the Blackwater, Robb was doomed.  If only one had happened, Roose might have stayed aboard.  But both? Forget it.

Roose was already evil and self-serving, well before the Blackwater.

[Alden Rothack]

3 hours ago, astarkchoice said:

-in that scenario the lannisters would ...itd be a way to end the war in a stroke , remember its why they couldnt siege the twins the 1st time. Its doable but at a huge cost that means the wars virtualy lost.

Hes still just one man ,  plus even  he cant turn the tide of  a  battle  that one sided

 

the lannister forces aren't anywhere near the twins at that point, reinforcements from the other riverlords will arrive well before they do.

[astarkchoice]

1 hour ago, SeanF said:

Roose was already evil and self-serving, well before the Blackwater.

Yeah his attititude to ramsays 'fun' with girls is more comcern with people hearing about it hinting hes prob done the same or worse , making ramsay with the raping of the poor millers wife then killing him outta spite (hinting he regularly rapes and kills on his own lands and believes in 1st night rights for lords !!) And of course old ramsay didnt become a master of  slow flaying out of nowhere..that shit was taught!

[sifth]

27 minutes ago, astarkchoice said:

Yeah his attititude to ramsays 'fun' with girls is more comcern with people hearing about it hinting hes prob done the same or worse , making ramsay with the raping of the poor millers wife then killing him outta spite (hinting he regularly rapes and kills on his own lands and believes in 1st night rights for lords !!) And of course old ramsay didnt become a master of  slow flaying out of nowhere..that shit was taught!

Plus he’s killed a lot of innocent people in the WotFK’s, for the “crime” of feeding Lannisters and giving them clothes. The very same people he’d come to work with.

[astarkchoice]

1 minute ago, sifth said:

Plus he’s killed a lot of innocent people in the WotFK’s, for the “crime” of feeding Lannisters and giving them clothes. The very same people he’d come to work with.

Your forgettong his most obvious crime

 

 

Poor walder said any  frey wife he chose would be matched with silver as a dowry  so he chose himself a  right heffer and dug deep into that old gentlemans pockets

[Nevets]

4 hours ago, SeanF said:

Roose was already evil and self-serving, well before the Blackwater.

Of course he was evil and self-serving.  I never suggested otherwise.  It's just that before the Blackwater it was more advantageous to stick with Robb than to betray him.  That way he keeps his options open.

[sifth]

3 hours ago, astarkchoice said:

 

 

 

Poor walder said any  frey wife he chose would be matched with silver as a dowry  so he chose himself a  right heffer and dug deep into that old gentlemans pockets

I mostly view that as a case of evil vs evil. "Ohh no, evil won", lol

Edited June 6, 2023 by sifth

[astarkchoice]

Just now, sifth said:

I mostly view that as a case of evil vs evil. "Ohh no, evil won", lol

Got some silver and for all we know roose likes them with a little cake for him to snack on 

[Alden Rothack]

4 hours ago, astarkchoice said:

Your forgettong his most obvious crime

 

 

Poor walder said any  frey wife he chose would be matched with silver as a dowry  so he chose himself a  right heffer and dug deep into that old gentlemans pockets

the freys underpaid for the chance to make one of their own Lady Bolton

[astarkchoice]

1 hour ago, Alden Rothack said:

the freys underpaid for the chance to make one of their own Lady Bolton

Yep 

Well.i suppose it was a great investment ..they already knew that roose was about to move up in the world to warden of the north

[astarkchoice]

7 hours ago, Alden Rothack said:

the lannister forces aren't anywhere near the twins at that point, reinforcements from the other riverlords will arrive well before they do.

They wont be able to break the siege in time to prevent lannister forces arriving. The twins is described as fucking nightmare to storm...the freys are weasals but they  can  really build em!

[Alden Rothack]

1 minute ago, astarkchoice said:

They wont be able to break the siege in time to prevent lannister forces arriving. The twins is described as fucking nightmare to storm...the freys are weasals but they  can  really build em!

I'm not so sure, its a very strong castle to be sure but the lannisters would have to come a long way through still contasted lands to get there, they would finish securing the rest of the riverlands first then move to help the freys.

I'd bet on Roose, Robb or the Blackfish finding a way to take the castle before that.