Aeron’s Second Vision/Fever Dream

[King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd]

I wanted to discuss Aeron’s second vision in the Forsaken chapter, and about who the identity of the woman with “hands alive with pale fire” is.

 

The dreams were even worse the second time. He saw the longships of the Ironborn adrift and burning on a boiling blood-red sea. He saw his brother on the Iron Throne again, but Euron was no longer human. He seemed more squid than man, a monster fathered by a kraken of the deep, his face a mass of writhing tentacles. Beside him stood a shadow in woman’s form, long and tall and terrible, her hands alive with pale white fire. Dwarves capered for their amusement, male and female, naked and misshapen, locked in carnal embrace, biting and tearing at each other as Euron and his mate laughed and laughed and laughed …

 

 

To me the “longships adrift and burning on a blood Red Sea” is clearly the Battle for Meereen, that may take place before or after this chapter.

 

But the woman beside him, who could she possibly be? So far as I can tell, the candidates are Daenerys, Melisandre, Malora Hightower, or Quaithe. I’ve also heard that the woman could be a metaphor for Glass Candles.

 

The final part of dwarves, locked in a carnal embrace, and tearing and biting at each other represents the Lords & Ladies of Westeros, fighting each other for supremacy for Euron and the womanMs amusement.

[Aebram]

I think you're correct about the long ships and the dwarves. The "shadow in woman's form" could represent a woman from Asshai or the Shadow Lands, or perhaps a female version of the shadow-babies that Melisandre created to help Stannis.

[chrisdaw]

Are unreleased (or only read) chapters allowed in this section without spoilers? I hope so but it wasn't previously.

It's nothing to do with Meereen, that's a weird recency take.

I believe the pale fire represents faded out magic, once lauded magic that has lost it's potency/power in time (and perhaps a lack of sacrifices to fuel it). I believe this based upon Dany's faded ghost ancestors in her wake the dragon dream having swords of pale fire. So I believe the woman is a sorcerer who has either lost much of her ability or lost it and has it returning, that is the returning of their power is part of their character, their motivation or reason they've emerged.

I think it's Shiera Seastar who is Quaithe, her powers waned in time but with Dany waking dragons she's on the come back, she guides Euron (sailors navigate by the stars and Shiera is the brightest), they share a lust for exploring the possibilities of the world's magic and a disregard for the sacrifices (of others) it requires. It's all fun and games to them, they're experimenting.

[King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd]

2 minutes ago, chrisdaw said:

Are unreleased (or only read) chapters allowed in this section without spoilers? I hope so but it wasn't previously.

It's nothing to do with Meereen, that's a weird recency take.

I believe the pale fire represents faded out magic, once lauded magic that has lost it's potency/power in time (and perhaps a lack of sacrifices to fuel it). I believe this based upon Dany's faded ghost ancestors in her wake the dragon dream having swords of pale fire. So I believe the woman is a sorcerer who has either lost much of her ability or lost it and has it returning, that is the returning of their power is part of their character, their motivation or reason they've emerged.

I think it's Shiera Seastar who is Quaithe, her powers waned in time but with Dany waking dragons she's on the come back, she guides Euron (sailors navigate by the stars and Shiera is the brightest), they share a lust for exploring the possibilities of the world's magic and a disregard for the sacrifices (of others) it requires. It's all fun and games to them, they're experimenting.

It’s been out since like 2016 or so. I didn’t think it’d matter. 
 

That’s a hell of a take. I think if Quaithe is working with Euron she is either manipulating him for Dany’s benefit or Dany for Euron’s benefit

 

[chrisdaw]

Just now, King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd said:

It’s been out since like 2016 or so. I didn’t think it’d matter. 
 

That’s a hell of a take. I think if Quaithe is working with Euron she is either manipulating him for Dany’s benefit or Dany for Euron’s benefit

Euron's smiling eye will take in the Falias (and Danys) of this world, but surely not Quaithe, and the implications of that is interesting. There's no innocently bringing Euron to Dany for Dany's benefit. IF Quaithe is trying to bring Dany and Euron together she must basically be evil, and I guess trying to bring Dany to the dark side, and that sort of makes sense. The dragons are ultimately supposed to be seen as evil (the show Viserys language concerning dragons being a power men should have never trifled with is at the hear of the series too) and Quaithe's main thrust is in trying to get Dany to embrace the dragon.

[King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd]

2 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

Euron's smiling eye will take in the Falias (and Danys) of this world, but surely not Quaithe, and the implications of that is interesting. There's no innocently bringing Euron to Dany for Dany's benefit. IF Quaithe is trying to bring Dany and Euron together she must basically be evil, and I guess trying to bring Dany to the dark side, and that sort of makes sense. The dragons are ultimately supposed to be seen as evil (the show Viserys language concerning dragons being a power men should have never trifled with is at the hear of the series too) and Quaithe's main thrust is in trying to get Dany to embrace the dragon.

Yeah I don’t trust Quaithe. But we know according to GRRM Dany will embrace it. Which will make it challenging to root for her

[Tyrosh Lannister]

Blood red sea refers to the upcoming battle of blood (Euron Vs hightower redwyne fleet where he summons Krakens or monsters to destroy the enemy's fleet)

 

The woman with fire hands I think refers to Cersei after she uses wildfire to destroy kings landing. 

[King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd]

Perhaps the woman is magic herself, and the pale Fire is glass candles?

[Castellan]

Perhaps the woman is shadowy and pale because she is projecting herself, she is not next to Euron in a physical sense. But my main thought is that GRRM hs made this solution-safe, as the woman is so indistinct.

Despite seeing parts of the iron fleet wrecked, Euron seems triumphant, as if he has won a battle. Unless he is for some reason happy to see it wrecked. Did Victarion unsuccessfully move against Euron with the fleet he commands?

The boiling blood red sea to me symbolises a volcano in the sea. Or else an explosion. The mutated Euron and mishapen dwarves could indicate that Vale of Asshai like radiation has spread outwards. Or that Euron is already affected. His tentacles could be an interpretation of these kinds of effects:

In 55AC, Princess Aerea Targaryen claimed Balerion as her mount, and disappeared for more than a year, before reappearing in King's Landing in 56AC. Grand Maester Benifer and Barth found her to be infested with "horrors" which burned her from the inside out and killed her, erupting from her body as "worms with faces", "snakes with hands" and other monstrosities.

Its clear Valyrian environment and/or culture lead to dangerous mutations:

The Valyrians were more than dragonlords. They practiced blood magic and other dark arts, delving deep into the earth for secrets and twisting the flesh of beasts and men to fashion monstrous and unnatural chimeras.

I wonder if putting on a suit of Valyrian steel is akin to blowing the horn - can have very nasty effects on the wearer.

The dream seems quite hallucinatory, and Aeron's interpretation must be taken into account. I can't remember if he knows Euron is planning to win Dany as his queen. If so, he could be imposing his fear that this has come to pass on any element of real vision. A bunch of dwarves could be projected from one dwarf being present. etc.

PS I liked the idea about the woman being magic and the pale fire glass candles. But I think the elongated shape of the woman herself evokes the very tall and twisted glass candles. Perhaps the pale fire is the flame on the candle.

Edited June 16, 2023 by Castellan