War huh yeah what if it good for..absolutely nothing

[astarkchoice]

Some fun what ifs to pass the time until winter...winds of winter that is.

Different Wars that could have occured but didnt..wel say for arguments sake white walkers decided to leave it for another century or 5

-neds war: ned had planned to take the  northern forces past the wall to deal with the rumours.of a king there. How does he fare?  If he wins how does it affect the wot5k?

-roberts war: long talked of taking the summer isles...disaster or huge sucess for westeros

-renlys magicless wars: say the shadowbaby doesnt work  ...how does his campaign vs the lannisters go? Add in  his attempts to subdue the new 'north'  kingdom fo?(that somehow includes the riverlands..wel say robb isnt keen to end the knee here)  ironborn,dorne and vale?

Aerys war:  the mad king wanted an all out war vs bravos over debts owed

Ilyrios war:  ilyrio and varys seeming plan goes as expected this time with no hiccups , viserys stays with him at pentos and drogo doesnt get cut (drogo i think had no intention of letting an idiot control even part of his army thus probably sells slaves and gives viserys cash for like 10-20k sellswords) . Viserys is bethrothed to arianne, young griff revealed and  quickly matched to margery and the golden company, 10k or so sellswords , dorne and the reach  go to war vs roberts regime (bear in mind varys is still in kl)

 

-Stannis war:stannis remembers ravens work thus stays  in touch with renly and lets him know his plans. Wot5k happens as before BUT this time renly backs stannis and the tyrells stand down. To even tbings up robb isnt as bright and decides he can take the twins in time...tywin marches on his rear and mauls the northern army, they retreat north just as balon is attacking.but this tike with the full ironborn military.

.so its robb vs balon and stanis+renly vs baratheon bros united!

 

-dorans war: had to be talked down by jon arryn at end of roberts rebellion (understanable given what happened) but lets say hes inconsolable  thus time and raises the spears, to assist this time roberts doesnt get a fluke storm destoying  the large royal fleet off dragonstone. The tyrells of course are still loyalists.

-robert vs ned: lyanna survives and ned this time lets the world know she wasnt abducted. Robert is furious and embarassed and accepts cersei as jon arryn suggested to secure the lannisters into his new regime. Jon arryn takes his banners home as do the tyrells....if robert presses for war who wins between asoiafs besties?

Edited July 24, 2023 by astarkchoice

[Craving Peaches]

7 minutes ago, astarkchoice said:

-renlys magicless wars: say the shadowbaby doesnt work  ...how does his campaign vs the lannisters go? Add in  his attempts to subdue the new 'north'  kingdom fo?(that somehow includes the riverlands..wel say robb isnt keen to end the knee here)  ironborn,dorne and vale?

Stannis is destroyed outside Storm's End, if Stannis himself isn't killed he probably limps back to Dragonstone with the remainder of his men and ships.

Renly likely continues at his current slow and steady pace. The food situation is only going to get worse in King's Landing, so I would expect more riots and possibly an attempt to remove the Lannisters from power and invite Renly to take the Throne by the Antler Men, who in this scenario would probably back the not dead Renly rather than the dead/defeated Stannis. They might be revealed by Varys though before they can do anything.

Tywin is in a real bad spot now because he is caught between Robb and Renly. If he goes to King's Landing to try and defend the City then he is abandoning the Westerlands to Robb, he can't stick around in King's Landing because of the food situation and he would likely lose in battle against Renly. Renly outnumbers him by over four to one and has Randyl Tarly and other experienced nobles to lead his armies, as well as his troops probably being better fed. Tywin also isn't getting anymore troops, by this point he has scraped the bottom of the barrel in terms of calling Westerlanders to serve and sellswords don't look likely because of the fact a lot of them aren't 'in range' and shipping difficulties. Tywin looks screwed to me. If I were him I would probably treat the Throne as a lost cause and retreat to defend the Westerlands, but Tywin is prideful so I don't know if he'd do that. Depending on whether he could get Tommen he might try and hold out with Tommen as a claimant once Renly takes King's Landing (if he kills Joffrey), or declare independence with himself as King of the Rock and Tommen as his heir. Myrcella is in Dorne at this point but both Joffrey and Tommen inherit before her so she only really comes into play as a candidate if they are both dead.

Now from what I can tell in the timeline (Renly dies in chapter 33, Theon is already raiding the North in chapter 36, Balon rejects Robb's alliance offer in chapter 11 and Theon is given his task in chapter 24), Balon has already decided and set in motion the plan to attack the North before Renly dies. So I don't think Renly not dying prevents the capture of Winterfell. This means Robb has to focus on retaking Winterfell. This would make deciding to resist Renly as well at this point a bad move from Robb, especially given Renly was going to let him keep his title. Due to geography and imbalance in numbers I think Robb would have a hard time defending the Riverlands anyway but now he has to simultaneously defend the Riverlands and retake the North while having only around a quarter of Renly's men, inability to recruit more due to the Ironborn holding Moat Cailin and no fleet. Robb cannot hold the Riverlands. If I recall correctly some of the Riverlords were quite keen to support Renly anyway. In this scenario since Tywin looks weak I don't see the Freys throwing their lot in with him so no Red Wedding, but maybe the insulted Freys declare support for Renly instead and hole up in the Twins, which now Robb may also have to besiege with roughly a quarter less men than he previously had...

One way or another, after Renly takes the Capital he can use the Redwyne fleet, since the Redwyne twins are either no longer hostages or dead. If Sansa is not dead she makes a very good hostage. In this scenario (Sansa hostage, loss of Winterfell and Ironborn raids, massively outnumbered by enemy) I imagine quite a few of Robbs advisors would be urging him to make peace with Renly, but if Robb still somehow refuses then as I said before he cannot hold the Riverlands, at best he can retake the North from the Ironborn and hold it. Robb also has to deal with the Wildlings.

The Redwyne fleet is probably used to finish off Stannis if he's still alive, or deal with Selyse who is claiming Shireen is Queen. I assume in this scenario Balon makes the offer he made to Tywin to Renly instead, but I don't think Renly takes it as he has a fleet ready to engage and from what we hear him say to Catelyn he is invested in making sure all the Kingdoms do homage to him. However, Renly probably waits until spring before attempting to engage the North, and may try to starve them out in the meantime by blockading ports and withholding food shipments and aid to deal with the Wildlings and strengthen the Watch.

The Vale seems a bit of a wildcard but from what we see, Littlefinger and Renly got on quite well, so I imagine they either stay neutral or declare for Renly. Any reservations Vale Lords may have about Renly's claim can easily be put aside by adopting the bastard story and denouncing Stannis as a faithless heathen.

Dorne could push for independence but with Doran in charge that doesn't seem likely. I imagine they stay neutral-ish with a mildly pro-Renly stance. Edric could be betrothed to one of Oberyn's daughters or something. Not sure what they'd do with Myrcella.

Renly has enough men for a simultaneous campaign against the Westerlands and Riverlands. Probably a subordinate like Tarly is sent to do one while he supervises the other. I imagine they would be successful due to sheer quantity imbalance plus better fed troops. Some of Tywin's vassals may start to reconsider allegiance given Tywin's ability to Castamere them is now looking shaky...

So at the time where we are now in the books in this alternate scenario I can imagine Renly has the full support of the Reach and Stormlands, controls parts/most of the Riverlands and Westerlands (with Casterly Rock holding out), the Vale and Dorne are either neutral or pro-Renly and assuming Euron kills Balon the Ironborn are against him, but have probably been kicked out of the North by Robb who is continuing to resist despite the pleas of his advisors. The Wildlings are still coming but this time there may be no aid from Stannis to help the Watch. If they breach the Wall Robb now has to go deal with them as well.

Varys and Illyrio might still try to pull their F/Aegon stunt but the Realm is more stable than it is and Renly, as a charismatic adult who has just won some victories, is probably more likely to attract lasting support than Tommen. They might decide to wait...

There was some discussion of Renly being assassinated by Varys in this scenario but I am not sure about that, and it also defeats the point of what you want to explore in scenarios like this.

[Craving Peaches]

58 minutes ago, astarkchoice said:

-Stannis war:stannis remembers ravens work thus stays  in touch with renly and lets him know his plans. Wot5k happens as before BUT this time renly backs stannis and the tyrells stand down.

Are the Tyrells supporting Stannis or neutral?

[James Steller]

1 minute ago, Craving Peaches said:

 

The Vale seems a bit of a wildcard but from what we see, Littlefinger and Renly got on quite well, so I imagine they either stay neutral or declare for Renly.

 

You’ve said this before, but I don’t think I believe that Littlefinger was truly friendly with anyone. He was the one who threw Robert’s realm into chaos for his own ends, I really doubt that he would have helped Renly except to gain power for himself. As soon as Renly outlived his usefulness or as soon as Littlefinger saw an opportunity to seize power for himself, (or as soon as Daenerys showed up over the horizon with her dragons), then Renly would have been done.

[James Steller]

1 hour ago, astarkchoice said:

-Stannis war:stannis remembers ravens work thus stays  in touch with renly and lets him know his plans. Wot5k happens as before BUT this time renly backs stannis and the tyrells stand down. To even tbings up robb isnt as bright and decides he can take the twins in time...tywin marches on his rear and mauls the northern army, they retreat north just as balon is attacking.but this tike with the full ironborn military.

.so its robb vs balon and stanis+renly vs baratheon bros united!

 

The Stannis war I want to see is the one where Robb doesn’t let Greatjon derail the council and has the North and Riverlands declare for Stannis Baratheon, since Stannis has no need to announce his bid for the throne (him being Robert’s rightful heir regardless of whether he declares it or not). 
 

Stannis therefore has no reason to go south for men, and instead coordinates a campaign with Robb and Edmure. Maybe they hold off Tywin while Stannis focuses on his naval blockade. Or maybe Stannis travels to the Riverlands to personally oversee the campaign against Tywin. Yes, Renly would still be a wild card, but I could readily imagine Stannis overcoming Renly’s larger numbers with his superior military tactics. He was besieging Storm’s End with five thousand men and Randyll Tarly was convinced that Stannis could become a serious threat to Renly if Renly just left him alone outside Storm’s End. Now imagine if he was loose in the Riverlands with forty thousand men under his command. And keep in mind, Robb never sends Theon to the Iron Islands in this scenario, so a united North would be able to repel any of Balon’s pitiful attacks. Or maybe Balon grows a brain cell with Stannis against Tywin and decides on his own to raid the Westerlands.

Edited July 24, 2023 by James Steller

[Craving Peaches]

25 minutes ago, James Steller said:

You’ve said this before, but I don’t think I believe that Littlefinger was truly friendly with anyone.

Maybe not, but he does:

• Laugh at Renly's jokes
• Joke with Renly
• Was possibly discussing something with Renly before the Small Council meeting where Renly was absent near the end of AGoT

Also, I think Littlefinger would have a hard time convincing the Vale to go to War with Renly. Why are they fighting the seemingly legitimate heir to the Throne/King (now that Stannis is dead/a heathen, Joffrey is dead or revealed as a bastard along with Tommen and Myrcella, who is also girl)? Who are they backing? He doesn't want them throwing in their lot with Robb either (who also has issues in this scenario) as it erodes his authority. If he is really keen on getting rid of Renly, then he probably sides with Daenerys if Renly doesn't have her assassinated, Dragons are cheat codes so...

Besides, if LF must fight someone in this scenario, it is the Starks he has a grudge against, not Renly...

17 minutes ago, James Steller said:

Yes, Renly would still be a wild card, but I could readily imagine Stannis overcoming Renly’s larger numbers with his improved military tactics.

What 'improved military tactics'?

At this point, Stannis has:

• Withstood a siege in the castle famous for being unsiegable, which says more about his willpower than tactics
• Won a naval battle, which says nothing about land tactics
• Possibly taken a few castles on the Iron Islands, which again does not suggest 'improved military tactics' since loads of people do that and castles in the Islands appear to be in a state of disrepair

Edited July 24, 2023 by Craving Peaches

[James Steller]

14 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

Maybe not, but he does:

• Laugh at Renly's jokes
• Joke with Renly
• Was possibly discussing something with Renly before the Small Council meeting where Renly was absent near the end of AGoT

 

Littlefinger was charming and supportive to Ned too until he put his knife to Ned’s throat.

14 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

Also, I think Littlefinger would have a hard time convincing the Vale to go to War with Renly. Why are they fighting the seemingly legitimate heir to the Throne (now that Stannis is dead/a heathen, Joffrey is dead or revealed as a bastard along with Tommen and Myrcella, who is also girl)? Who are they backing? He doesn't want them throwing in their lot with Robb either (who also has issues in this scenario) as it erodes his authority. If he is really keen on getting rid of Renly, then he probably sides with Daenerys if Renly doesn't have her assassinated, Dragons are cheat codes so...

 

I never meant that Littlefinger would lead the Vale to war against Renly. He’d do away with Renly in a much more secretive way, presumably while coordinating with Dany to help smooth over her invasion.

14 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

 

In that scenario Renly is backing Stannis so there is no need for his.

Also, what 'improved military tactics'?

At this point, Stannis has:

• Withstood a siege in the castle famous for being unsiegable, which says more about his willpower than tactics
• Won a naval battle, which says nothing about land tactics
• Possibly taken a few castles on the Iron Islands, which again does not suggest 'improved military tactics' since loads of people do that and castles in the Islands appear to be in a state of disrepair

Firstly, I apologise for using “improved”. It’s early and I meant to say “superior” since we know that Stannis does have more war experience than Renly.

Second, I was assuming Renly had still declared his own bid for kingship, as he’d done before Robb’s council with Edmure. 
 

Third, you’re underestimating Stannis’s record. He didn’t just win a naval battle, he won a naval battle against the Ironborn. On their home turf. That, to me, shows an incredible adaptability on Stannis’ part. And combine that with the scenario where he has Robb Stark, Brynden Tully, etc… I’d say he’d prove more than a match for Renly and his summer knights.

Edited July 24, 2023 by James Steller

[Craving Peaches]

11 minutes ago, James Steller said:

Second, I was assuming Renly had still declared his own bid for kingship, as he’d done before Robb’s council with Edmure. 

Okay, it's just you quoted the scenario from astarkchoice where it says specifically that Renly was backing Stannis so I got a little confused.

12 minutes ago, James Steller said:

He didn’t just win a naval battle, he won a naval battle against the Ironborn. On their home turf. That, to me, shows an incredible adaptability on Stannis’ part.

I don't think we know enough about the battle details to make assumptions like that. We don't know how many ships were on each side, who aside from Victarion was commanding the Ironborn, how Stannis won aside from that he won etc. Also, naval tactics are different from land tactics.

14 minutes ago, James Steller said:

And combine that with the scenario where he has Robb Stark, Brynden Tully, etc…

Renly has Randyl and other experienced nobles too. Aside from Robb, whom Stannis might not even put in command given in this scenario he is untried and Stannis has a larger roster of older people, and the Blackfish, who does Stannis have? Also, where is the idea that Brynden is a really good commander coming from? I know he has battlefield experience and is a good warrior, but I can't find anything that suggests he's a really good general. Everything I found says he is a good fighter/warrior rather than a good leader/commander. Most of what he does in the WotFK is under Robb's direction and when he is on his own, the only thing we really see him do is withstand a siege in Riverrun against incompetent Freys and escape by swimming.

Also, Robb was able to get maybe ~40,000 troops, Renly still has at least double that and a larger food supply.

[SeanF]

52 minutes ago, James Steller said:

The Stannis war I want to see is the one where Robb doesn’t let Greatjon derail the council and has the North and Riverlands declare for Stannis Baratheon, since Stannis has no need to announce his bid for the throne (him being Robert’s rightful heir regardless of whether he declares it or not). 
 

Stannis therefore has no reason to go south for men, and instead coordinates a campaign with Robb and Edmure. Maybe they hold off Tywin while Stannis focuses on his naval blockade. Or maybe Stannis travels to the Riverlands to personally oversee the campaign against Tywin. Yes, Renly would still be a wild card, but I could readily imagine Stannis overcoming Renly’s larger numbers with his superior military tactics. He was besieging Storm’s End with five thousand men and Randyll Tarly was convinced that Stannis could become a serious threat to Renly if Renly just left him alone outside Storm’s End. Now imagine if he was loose in the Riverlands with forty thousand men under his command. And keep in mind, Robb never sends Theon to the Iron Islands in this scenario, so a united North would be able to repel any of Balon’s pitiful attacks. Or maybe Balon grows a brain cell with Stannis against Tywin and decides on his own to raid the Westerlands.

The independence declaration was fatal to Robb’s cause.  Without it, everyone would have combined against the Lannisters.

[James Steller]

7 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

 

I don't think we know enough about the battle details to make assumptions like that. We don't know how many ships were on each side, who aside from Victarion was commanding the Ironborn, how Stannis won aside from that he won etc. Also, naval tactics are different from land tactics.

 

By that logic, we know even less about Renly’s worthiness to be king. We never see him administrate, we never see him doing his job. We never see him successfully win in a fight, we never see him rule. We just see him abandon Ned for his own selfish desires, be charismatic enough to make some people like him, but nothing which would justify thousands of men risking their lives to put his rear on the iron throne.

7 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

Also, where is the idea that Brynden is a really good commander coming from? I know he has battlefield experience and is a good warrior, but I can't find anything that suggests he's a really good general. Everything I found says he is a good fighter/warrior rather than a good leader/commander. Most of what he does in the WotFK is under Robb's direction and when he is on his own, the only thing we really see him do is withstand a siege in Riverrun against incompetent Freys and escape by swimming.

We see more than that. Brynden was immediately put in charge of Robb’s scouts and he took initiative on his own. Outside the Twins, he didn’t wait for Robb or Cat to tell him to shoot any ravens leaving the castle, he did that on his own because he has a tactical mind.

Granted, you’re right; we don’t know what role that Brynden specifically played, but we can easily assume that he was essential to Robb’s victories. Robb was a prodigy, but I find it hard to believe that he didn’t get crucial advice from a man who survived the last big war which Westerosi armies fought in.

[Craving Peaches]

10 minutes ago, SeanF said:

The independence declaration was fatal to Robb’s cause.  Without it, everyone would have combined against the Lannisters.

I'm not sure about that. If Robb backs Renly, then yes, everyone at war aside from Stannis' meagre ~4000 is united against the Lannisters, but if Robb backs Stannis, Renly is still already crowned at this point, so essentially there is roughly the same amount of forces on every side as there was before, just that Stannis is in Robb's place.

[astarkchoice]

2 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

Are the Tyrells supporting Stannis or neutral?

Neutral

[Craving Peaches]

2 minutes ago, James Steller said:

By that logic, we know even less about Renly’s worthiness to be king.

Not really because we see Renly doing stuff, we see how he handles people, how he strategises, delegates tasks etc. as we do with Stannis (admittedly we see Stannis more because he is not killed midway through the second book and we see his character develop). We know literally nothing about that battle other than Stannis won, so to extrapolate from this that Stannis has a great ability to innovate is a stretch. Lets use a real random battle as an example:

Battle of Lechfeld - Wikipedia

Now imagine that all you know about that battle is that Otto I beat the Hungarians in Augsburg. Which is all we know about Stannis' victory, that it was a victory and where it took place. Why would you automatically assume that Otto/Stannis had a great ability to innovate? It is even worse with regards to Stannis because you are essentially reading a line about how Stannis won a naval battle with no other details on how he won and concluding from this that he would be a great land commander due to his ability to 'innovate'.

4 minutes ago, James Steller said:

We just see him abandon Ned for his own selfish desires

Yeah, self-preservation after Ned rejects both plans which would have minimised bloodshed...

5 minutes ago, James Steller said:

be charismatic enough to make some people like him

And that is a good trait. Also it wasn't just 'some', he gathered the largest army in Westeros ever... Catelyn specifically points out how charismatic he is. This is above-average charisma we are dealing with here.

2 hours ago, James Steller said:

We see more than that. Brynden was immediately put in charge of Robb’s scouts and he took initiative on his own. Outside the Twins, he didn’t wait for Robb or Cat to tell him to shoot any ravens leaving the castle, he did that on his own because he has a tactical mind.

Granted, you’re right; we don’t know what role that Brynden specifically played, but we can easily assume that he was essential to Robb’s victories. Robb was a prodigy, but I find it hard to believe that he didn’t get crucial advice from a man who survived the last big war which Westerosi armies fought in.

Fair enough. I need to reread the books.

[Canon Claude]

7 hours ago, astarkchoice said:

 

-robert vs ned: lyanna survives and ned this time lets the world know she wasnt abducted. Robert is furious and embarassed and accepts cersei as jon arryn suggested to secure the lannisters into his new regime. Jon arryn takes his banners home as do the tyrells....if robert presses for war who wins between asoiafs besties?

There are a lot of assumptions being made in this paragraph, but I'm also fascinated by the implications. Lyanna surviving is  somehow not a hypothetical which I ever envisioned. I feel like it deserves its own thread.

7 hours ago, astarkchoice said:

 

-neds war: ned had planned to take the  northern forces past the wall to deal with the rumours.of a king there. How does he fare?  If he wins how does it affect the wot5k?

 

The outcome depends on if Ned and his army comes across Mance Rayder or the Others. If it's the former, Ned probably wins a Pyrrhic victory, maybe at the cost of his own life. If it's the latter, then the Northern army is destroyed.

7 hours ago, astarkchoice said:

 

-roberts war: long talked of taking the summer isles...disaster or huge sucess for westeros

 

Based on Nymeria's experience in the Summer Isles, the Westerosi would be utterly destroyed by diseases and hostile creatures alone.

7 hours ago, astarkchoice said:

 

Aerys war:  the mad king wanted an all out war vs bravos over debts owed

 

Braavos wins handily, and the Braavosi get to depose the last Valyrian dynasty and avenge their enslaved ancestors. 

Actually, that would have been amazingly poetic. 

Edited July 24, 2023 by Canon Claude

[Alester Florent]

5 hours ago, James Steller said:

The Stannis war I want to see is the one where Robb doesn’t let Greatjon derail the council and has the North and Riverlands declare for Stannis Baratheon, since Stannis has no need to announce his bid for the throne (him being Robert’s rightful heir regardless of whether he declares it or not).

Only Stannis knows he's Robert's rightful heir, though. Everyone else, including Robb, thinks it's Joffrey. Moreover, Stannis being Stannis and the incest generally being unknown, it's a reasonable third-party assumption that he would side with Joffrey out of principle. (Albeit Barristan seems to think he won't, which is interesting).

One of the major obstacles to Robb's declaring for Stannis immediately on Robert's death, then, is that he doesn't know Stannis is even in play as a candidate. If he declares for Stannis and Stannis decides to support Joffrey, then that buggers the whole thing right up because he has to back down from supporting the guy he declared for. By the time Robb knows Stannis is actually a candidate, Renly's declared and that complicates things.

Edited July 24, 2023 by Alester Florent

[Craving Peaches]

19 minutes ago, Canon Claude said:

Based on Nymeria's experience in the Summer Isles, the Westerosi would be utterly destroyed by diseases and hostile creatures alone.

Isn't that Sothyros rather than the Summer Isles?

[Canon Claude]

Just now, Craving Peaches said:

Isn't that Sothyros rather than the Summer Isles?

Maybe you're right, my bad. But the Summer Isles would still win, I think.

[Craving Peaches]

1 minute ago, Canon Claude said:

But the Summer Isles would still win, I think.

I think they could see some initial gains but holding on to it long term I doubt would work due to distance. Also I thought the way wars 'worked' in SI was different i.e. ritual combat rather than full on war, but I could be wrong.

[astarkchoice]

4 hours ago, Canon Claude said:

Maybe you're right, my bad. But the Summer Isles would still win, I think.

No they seem to be a perpetual target for slavers and cerseis new  former master of ships even raids one of their largest cities with his tiny new fleet.

They dont use armour so will be at a huge disadvantage repelling westerosi forces BUT their archers use a wood found only there thus outrange anything bar dragonbone and (world of fire and ice)   have hitting power that can apparently go through  boiled leater and mail and even good steel plate!!!

So conquest is probably easy its holding onto the place. They already have royalty so imposing feudal lords isnt a hugely alien step its just the possibility of an insurgency.

[astarkchoice]

4 hours ago, Canon Claude said:

-There are a lot of assumptions being made in this paragraph, but I'm also fascinated by the implications. Lyanna surviving is  somehow not a hypothetical which I ever envisioned. I feel like it deserves its own thread.

-The outcome depends on if Ned and his army comes across Mance Rayder or the Others. If it's the former, Ned probably wins a Pyrrhic victory, maybe at the cost of his own life. If it's the latter, then the Northern army is destroyed.

 

-Braavos wins handily, and the Braavosi get to depose the last Valyrian dynasty and avenge their enslaved ancestors. 

Actually, that would have been amazingly poetic. 

-yeah her living would be a huge deal as.would jon being a legitimate heir

-its an incredible what if on reflection. Ned would be going north with a force that would go through mances like wet paper based on stannis performance , he sure as fuck wouldnt tolerate craster keep continuing ....as for the others itd be interesting as hed probably have howland with him and that could link them to the 3 eyed raven and  thus the lore needed to end the others!

Minus meeting  the others id say they find and hang mance scattering the wildlings after a massacre. If he still goes south to be hand he'd leave jon snow  (still joins) in a much better situation ! The old bear has no need to leave the wall en masse  neither has half hand or   hell even benjen could still be there. The walls towers could probably be repaired a bit and forrest cut back (large force sitting around might as well put them to work )

Ned still goes south and his honour gets him killed , robbs bannermen are even more endebtted to eddard for leading them.to a recent  victory that saved their lands.+ all recently mobilised thus overall robb  probably leads a larger veteran force south!

-true that