Wealth of the Lords of Westeros: The North

[Alden Rothack]

1 minute ago, astarkchoice said:

Lol yeah 

the bride price was the one paid from the grooms to the wifes family, in that case unlike a dowry the wife doesn't directly get anything, she also doesn't get any of her husbands money when he dies

the tendency of wives to profit from the dower is where the term Dowager comes from.

[astarkchoice]

Getting thread back on track the ryswells would possibly seem to be wealthy too.

A daughter married to a bolton arguably the 2nd /rd rabked house of the north hints at high status.

Horses being a symbol of wealth and power  right on their crest. The rills being a well watered grassy area near a main town probably is good land for horses so the 2-3 major houses  there may be quite well off in terms of cavalry!

We know brandon and lyanna rode like centaurs and he liked to go down to  ride(in more ways than one)  with lady dustin (back when she was a ryswell) and her son by roose was fond of horses too riding very well! It hints at a strong equestrian culture there with healthy  expensive breeds in the area, ned we know took home a magnificent beast to lady dustin from the tower of joy.

Edited October 6, 2023 by astarkchoice

[Alden Rothack]

36 minutes ago, astarkchoice said:

Getting thread back on track the ryswells would possibly seem to be wealthy too.

A daughter married to a bolton arguably the 2nd /rd rabked house of the north hints at high status.

Horses being a symbol of wealth and power  right on their crest. The rills being a well watered grassy area near a main town probably is good land for horses so the 2-3 major houses  there may be quite well off in terms of cavalry!

We know brandon and lyanna rode like centaurs and he liked to go down to  ride(in more ways than one)  with lady dustin (back when she was a ryswell) and her son by roose was fond of horses too riding very well! It hints at a strong equestrian culture there with healthy  expensive breeds in the area, ned we know took home a magnificent beast to lady dustin from the tower of joy.

I agree, Lady Dustin is probably the second wealthiest and most powerful person in the north with the dustins and ryswells behind her

[astarkchoice]

It strikes me that the poorest seeming houses like glover (wooden motte) mormont , the minor  lords/clans that stannis raises and the flints of flints finger(who the wiki says are probably  poorer/weaker than their kin on the other side of the north) are all on the side that brandon the burner took a substantial navy from and/or take the brunt of ironborn raiding.

[Alden Rothack]

8 hours ago, astarkchoice said:

It strikes me that the poorest seeming houses like glover (wooden motte) mormont , the minor  lords/clans that stannis raises and the flints of flints finger(who the wiki says are probably  poorer/weaker than their kin on the other side of the north) are all on the side that brandon the burner took a substantial navy from and/or take the brunt of ironborn raiding.

Coupled with not having a major trading partner in Bravos

[SeanF]

On 10/4/2023 at 3:15 PM, Alester Florent said:

There is of course a difference between "wealth" and "money" and this distinction is particularly apparent in "feudal"-ish systems like in Westeros. Much of the wealth that great lords in Westeros possess is in the form of human capital or tithes from landholders that are paid in kind rather than in cash. 

The result of this may be that lords who are in real terms very wealthy and powerful (can command hundreds or thousands of men, host the king and his entire entourage) might not necessarily have that high a cash income or that much cash on hand.

Families which control major trading ports (or the like) will probably have more cash money than lords who have great estates inland, but may have to spend more of that money to maintain the same standard of living. Mind you, the idea of a family like the Manderlys or Hightowers controlling major cities effectively unilaterally and being able to draw off the relevant income  is in itself somewhat unrealistic - GRRM's grasp on medieval economics is somewhat shaky at times.

But this may be the kind of problem that afflicted Jorah. The Mormonts probably have enough land and resources to maintain themselves comfortably, not to the standard of the Starks or Boltons of course but to the level expected of lords. But his wife turns up and wants things which cost money, which the Mormont holdings aren't set up to provide. So Jorah has to resort to desperate moneymaking schemes using the resources at his disposal in order to generate the money his wife wants. 

 

Yes, towns and cities in real medieval States were, themselves, the vassals of a king or lord, rather than managed directly. Neither kings nor lords had the ability to administer such places, so they were granted the right to govern themselves, through a mayor and council, in return for providing taxes and soldiers.

[SeanF]

15 hours ago, astarkchoice said:

And theres an easy solution to boost it.

The vast forrrest beyond the wall ! the wood could be sold to bravos! They would send the lumberjacks , ship it and hell could even pay for a sellsword company to patrol as security for the workers!

The wood would be sold en masse cheap with some funds going to the small nights watch but the rest being paid for up front by bravos building say half a dozen  large  warships to patrol the west coast and maybe toss in a few fishing boats and supply carrying cogs ! Its a good start to reboost the west coast with an anti ironborn fleet to keep the coastline safe and it cuts the forrest way back from the wall making spotting wildlings easy thus massively boosting areas behind it like the 2 gifts,last hearth and karhold as people can start to resettle there safely!!

Timber, furs, pitch and Amber should be the North’s main exports, and Braavos should provide a ready market.  

[astarkchoice]

3 hours ago, Alden Rothack said:

Coupled with not having a major trading partner in Bravos

And the free cities and ib! Lannisport and seaguard would be an excellent ones if they reestabliahed a large port...as would the ironborn when they are behaving!

[astarkchoice]

1 hour ago, SeanF said:

Timber, furs, pitch and Amber should be the North’s main exports, and Braavos should provide a ready market.  

Yeah so that huge forrest north of the wall being cleared would be good for bravos,.good for the watch and great for all.lands a few miles south of the wall.

 

Yeah def timber when you think on it without the north and/or  Ib(also a lot of forrests)  norvos and qohor would have an economoc stranglehold on bravos  for timber. The strong links between the north and bravos are also prob why jon and mikken instantly thought of a bravosi blade for arya and why ned was able to find and hire such a great trainer for her. 

[Alden Rothack]

1 hour ago, astarkchoice said:

And the free cities and ib! Lannisport and seaguard would be an excellent ones if they reestabliahed a large port...as would the ironborn when they are behaving!

Civilizing the ironborn would quickly pay for itself in increased trade

[Moiraine Sedai]

On 10/3/2023 at 11:40 AM, Alden Rothack said:

How wealthy would northern lords such as the Boltons, Dustins, Ryswells and Manderlys actually be

Manderly is rich. The rest on your lists would be considered less affluent then lords from the other kingdoms.  

[Alden Rothack]

35 minutes ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

Manderly is rich. The rest on your lists would be considered less affluent then lords from the other kingdoms.  

which lords from other kingdoms