Alden Rothack Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 We know that the Gift supported the Watch for many thousands of years at its full strength, could the land do so again if the people were available to settle it and man the castles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astarkchoice Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 (edited) Yes its a vicious downward cycle the gift has fallen into. The watch needs the gift and the gift needs the watch! If the watch had enough men to push back the forrests beyond the wall to where they are supposed to be, patrol the wall and sea around the wall properly the gift would be good land to settle as people would be realatively safe there. Ned had a mind that hed have to go north and smash the rumoured king beyond the wall and resettle the gift and fix the tower too....never got around to any of it note its interesting to think back at the watches height that all would have been good land as otd be prote⁶cted and all providing wealth, knights,men at arms etc to the starks of old! And theres sooo much of it too! Edited February 16 by astarkchoice Northern Sword 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alden Rothack Posted February 16 Author Share Posted February 16 56 minutes ago, astarkchoice said: Yes its a vicious downward cycle the gift has fallen into. The watch needs the gift and the gift needs the watch! If the watch had enough men to push back the forrests beyond the wall to where they are supposed to be, patrol the wall and sea around the wall properly the gift would be good land to settle as people would be realatively safe there. Ned had a mind that hed have to go north and smash the rumoured king beyond the wall and resettle the gift and fix the tower too....never got around to any of it note its interesting to think back at the watches height that all would have been good land as otd be prote⁶cted and all providing wealth, knights,men at arms etc to the starks of old! And theres sooo much of it too! No kidding, the old gift alone is the size of ireland and reasonably frtile since we know growing crops is possible even further north, a reestablished watch could probably push a good ways north of the wall too, possibly all the way to Then territory and set up regular trade with the people there hells under those circumstances the Watch could be stronger than the ironborn. astarkchoice 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astarkchoice Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 12 minutes ago, Alden Rothack said: No kidding, the old gift alone is the size of ireland and reasonably frtile since we know growing crops is possible even further north, a reestablished watch could probably push a good ways north of the wall too, possibly all the way to Then territory and set up regular trade with the people there hells under those circumstances the Watch could be stronger than the ironborn. Yeah most of it used to be stark land , the starks must have been even more of a powerhouse back then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alden Rothack Posted February 16 Author Share Posted February 16 1 minute ago, astarkchoice said: Yeah most of it used to be stark land , the starks must have been even more of a powerhouse back then! Yeah, the starks were able to give up enough land to establish and maintain garrisons of 10k on the wall and still have enough left to conquer the rest of the north with. at that time the Starks would have been the strongest house in westeros by far Lady Ella 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astarkchoice Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 9 minutes ago, Alden Rothack said: Yeah, the starks were able to give up enough land to establish and maintain garrisons of 10k on the wall and still have enough left to conquer the rest of the north with. at that time the Starks would have been the strongest house in westeros by far Im sure they possibly didnt have all the land it was probably a few minor houses too. But between losing the gift, the fall of the watch, the burning and lack of replacement of the western fleet,the breakdown of moat catlin and the tower etc the north had degraded a lot over time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alden Rothack Posted February 16 Author Share Posted February 16 46 minutes ago, astarkchoice said: Im sure they possibly didnt have all the land it was probably a few minor houses too. But between losing the gift, the fall of the watch, the burning and lack of replacement of the western fleet,the breakdown of moat catlin and the tower etc the north had degraded a lot over time if only minor houses are on it then its Stark land astarkchoice 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astarkchoice Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 30 minutes ago, Alden Rothack said: if only minor houses are on it then its Stark land Yeah based on the map the ones who gave up lands would be id say of course starks.of winterfell ,glovers, umbers and karstarks (so for a lot of history theyd prob be just starks ) and probably a swath of extra mountain clans sworn to winterfell or others Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alden Rothack Posted February 16 Author Share Posted February 16 2 minutes ago, astarkchoice said: Yeah based on the map the ones who gave up lands would be id say of course starks.of winterfell ,glovers, umbers and karstarks (so for a lot of history theyd prob be just starks ) and probably a swath of extra mountain clans sworn to winterfell or others Most of that is going to be stark land astarkchoice 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astarkchoice Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 24 minutes ago, Alden Rothack said: Most of that is going to be stark land Yep or was stark land ...umbers and glovers will have lost a bit too The new gift being taken from them had to hurt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alden Rothack Posted February 16 Author Share Posted February 16 2 minutes ago, astarkchoice said: Yep or was stark land ...umbers and glovers will have lost a bit too The new gift being taken from them had to hurt! Definitely, the Starks should have asked for it back during the Dance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astarkchoice Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 12 hours ago, Alden Rothack said: Definitely, the Starks should have asked for it back during the Dance Yeah or ned himself had a shot too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alden Rothack Posted February 17 Author Share Posted February 17 12 minutes ago, astarkchoice said: Yeah or ned himself had a shot too Ned absolutely should have asked for a number of things in exchange for remaining loyal to Robert even before Jon Arryns death, he should have asked for a lot more in exchange for becoming hand, of course knowing what to ask for would actually require Ned to think intelligently about the problem, which he absolutely can but doesn't want to. KingStoneheart, astarkchoice and Northern Sword 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astarkchoice Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 2 hours ago, Alden Rothack said: Ned absolutely should have asked for a number of things in exchange for remaining loyal to Robert even before Jon Arryns death, he should have asked for a lot more in exchange for becoming hand, of course knowing what to ask for would actually require Ned to think intelligently about the problem, which he absolutely can but doesn't want to. Yep if i was ned id have asked for -Entire gift back - had the crown announce all prisoners westeros wide offered the black and gold to cover transporting any willing homeless orphans/beggars in the cities ..a dangerous but varied life in the black with warm food and a bed is better than begging on the cold streets! -a decree to all lords to send the watch various things , the ironborn to give up 3-4 new large ironfleet ships to replace the watches broken down old galleys! The dornish can give up some recurve bows for horseback, the rest can give up armour chainnmail , swords , spears, crossbows etc..one single item from.every lord should be enough to equip the watch til doomsday!!! - crown to loan the north (or reduce taxes) to allow a port and fleet to be built on the western coast, maybe a little extra to do up moat catlin back to 100% and that dammned tower ned!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alden Rothack Posted February 17 Author Share Posted February 17 16 minutes ago, astarkchoice said: Yep if i was ned id have asked for -Entire gift back - had the crown announce all prisoners westeros wide offered the black and gold to cover transporting any willing homeless orphans/beggars in the cities ..a dangerous but varied life in the black with warm food and a bed is better than begging on the cold streets! yes -a decree to all lords to send the watch various things , the ironborn to give up 3-4 new large ironfleet ships to replace the watches broken down old galleys! The dornish can give up some recurve bows for horseback, the rest can give up armour chainnmail , swords , spears, crossbows etc..one single item from.every lord should be enough to equip the watch til doomsday!!! this too - crown to loan the north (or reduce taxes) to allow a port and fleet to be built on the western coast, maybe a little extra to do up moat catlin back to 100% and that dammned tower ned!! Yes to all of them if they haven't been done already astarkchoice 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Ella Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 On 2/17/2024 at 11:09 AM, Alden Rothack said: Ned absolutely should have asked for a number of things in exchange for remaining loyal to Robert even before Jon Arryns death, he should have asked for a lot more in exchange for becoming hand, of course knowing what to ask for would actually require Ned to think intelligently about the problem, which he absolutely can but doesn't want to. The Starks are used to looking after themselves. It would never occur to them to ask someone else for something. In other words, they never came to think like vassals and never became dependent on the Iron Throne. Ned was basically already talking about taking the New Gift back by resettling it, but I don't think he was planning on involving the king in that - he was plotting with his inside man Benjen instead. In fact, it did not take the Starks very long after overthrowing the Targaryens to talk about resettling the Gift. If the Starks were going to ask Robert for anything it should have been food in winter. When Robert goes to Winterfell, he specifically asks Ned about winter, and Ned's reply is: 'The winters are hard. But the Starks will endure. We always have.' That was the perfect opportunity to ask for food, and it simply didn't occur to him. The attitude is: we've managed perfectly fine on our own for centuries, why would we need anyone else's help? Kal-L and Northern Sword 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alden Rothack Posted February 24 Author Share Posted February 24 On 2/20/2024 at 8:05 PM, Lady Ella said: The Starks are used to looking after themselves. It would never occur to them to ask someone else for something. In other words, they never came to think like vassals and never became dependent on the Iron Throne. Ned was basically already talking about taking the New Gift back by resettling it, but I don't think he was planning on involving the king in that - he was plotting with his inside man Benjen instead. In fact, it did not take the Starks very long after overthrowing the Targaryens to talk about resettling the Gift. If the Starks were going to ask Robert for anything it should have been food in winter. When Robert goes to Winterfell, he specifically asks Ned about winter, and Ned's reply is: 'The winters are hard. But the Starks will endure. We always have.' That was the perfect opportunity to ask for food, and it simply didn't occur to him. The attitude is: we've managed perfectly fine on our own for centuries, why would we need anyone else's help? which is Ned being short sighted and stubborn, the north managed but it did decline, the areas to be resettled are near the size of some of the southron kingdoms after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrettyLittlePsycho Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 I don´t think the gift is such a fun place to settle. It´s way up north, it´s cold and even if some crops might be able to grow, it´s unlikely they could feed a watch at full strenght. Unless they could harvest some goods to trade from the area like lumber, maybe some ore ? Otherwise the watch would still be dependant on the goodwill of the 7K. astarkchoice and Jaenara Belarys 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astarkchoice Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 31 minutes ago, PrettyLittlePsycho said: I don´t think the gift is such a fun place to settle. It´s way up north, it´s cold and even if some crops might be able to grow, it´s unlikely they could feed a watch at full strenght. Unless they could harvest some goods to trade from the area like lumber, maybe some ore ? Otherwise the watch would still be dependant on the goodwill of the 7K. The land is fine the sort of people ned etc would settle.on it would be northerners anyway! Plus enough bad land will grow.as as much as a wayy smaller.plots of.good.land Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Sword Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 A place like Queens Crown and others like it should be resettled. The mountain clans would be a good choice to do it. They have proven loyalty, they already live in the hard, cold north. The Flints have already proven to be able to rule lands and castles in the south. Each of the larger mountain clans could be given some land. Of course, an off shoot of the Starks would also be a good idea, similar to the Karstark's. Build everything with surviving winter as the main goal, i.e. farming and fishing, and storage of food. Defending the settlement would be important. So, the Starks would have to help build keeps, towers and walls. With mountains in the area, stone for building would be available(at least in the west). Then you could also look into what type of mining could be done to generate some $$$. astarkchoice 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.