Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 Varys and Littlefinger are often presented by the fandom as the masters of the game of thrones in the saga, more cunning, manipulative and dangerous than any other player of the game so far, with them pulling the strings of the most impactful events in current Westeros and untouched by danger and threats so far. But no mastermind as cunning, smart, pragmatic and cautious as he/she is can avoid making mistakes or surprise events that might endanger their schemes and survival, and Varys and LF are no exceptions. What are the various mistakes they have done that could have backfired or may backfire on them in the long run ? What seeds have they unknowingly sowed that might spell their doom later in the story ? What are the worst mistakes or errors they have done, and how grave of a mistake/error is it ? astarkchoice 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astarkchoice Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 (edited) Varys: his little bird network cant be unbreakable esp if they are mute but can read and write. What happens when they get too old where do they retire to? If someone grabs or bribes one what secrets they could write down. He may have kidnapped a lannister during the kl riot which tyrion may resent if discovered ,his return to kl to murder kevan etc may be a mistake if hes spotted or if jamie mapped some of the hidden passageways better than we think. Finaly ultimately his plan all centres around his ally and one unstable boy(faegon) who may or may not choose to fight danys + may become injured/killed or even become greyscale stricken soon....there is no plan b for the eunuch!! Littlefinger: his gamble with the knife could have easily backfired if tyrion was vengeful although he did cover himself by saying to the starks to throw it away and that it wasnt proof on its own (as he knew they also recieved letter from lysa which he was pretending he knew nothing about) He could also always say he misremebered or was just bragging and it was ultimately cat etc who overrected minus proof so the knife thing while.risky wasnt a giant misstep at all. Far more risky was his inital ploy with the clearly mentaly unstable lysa that could fall apart at any time or she could have left clues, his obsession with sansa could still undoe him as shes strong and growing cleverer. Killing lysa was clearly a risk that could come.back to haunt him AS is the growing bond between sansa and sweetrobin. Sansa also has formed a fast friendship with miranda royce who seems to be a gossip and info hub not to mention could possibly sway her dad! He has some risks surrounded by mercs esp the newer ones who could be on others pay(varys, bronns pals,tyrells etc) and his most loyal servants are all possibly comprimised. Luthur brune has been his ultra efficent secret muscle and proved at blackwater to be an absolute beast in combat BUT hes smitten with mya stone which could be act against LF plus he may find himself becoming fond of sansa as he watches over her. His other longtime assets the corbrays now have wealth so could turn and most dangerously the once fantastic deal he secured the kettlebacks has soured ....lord kettleback may want his sons back from KL and out of danger! We know much of the inital reistance to his rule of the vale has faded or was deceptively weak..the vale is riddled with corruption hes involved with or there are damaging family secrets he knows, the only true resistance left is bronze royce whos marriage of his son to another powerful house increases the risk he poses. We know harry the heirs ward clearly knows who sansa is thus once harry is happy with her who knows she may see LF as no use anymore (although LF may use the disgruntled rich spice merchant whos daughter harry soiled for another rich marriage/dowry to a poor lord somewhere) Finaly in terms of close quarters LF relies on a handful of mercs so should the truths spill out it could all be decided in a fast brewing fight between few men in a hallway not an all out war. Bronze royce is formidable , harry is clearly being overhyped but could be quite good and of course myas lover mychel redfort is named as one of the best young swordsmen of the vale (also lyn corbrays squire so could end him) We know of the mercs shown up the 'mad mouse' made some sarcastic remarks hinting he knows the story brienne tells about sansa is b.s. All that said his undoing may also be in the finacial books at kl or a disgruntled whore, varys and petyr played the game for years so it seems likely varys would have a endgame/wmd bombshell in mind.....maybe a pre written letter to sansa about how her father was betrayed etc. Of course his deal with the tyrells could also come.back on him too Edited March 1 by astarkchoice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevets Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 I don't think we know enough about Varys to analyze his actions. I suspect for story reasons he will come to a bad end, but no idea how. Littlefinger I think is overextended and has too many skeletons in his closet, especially ones Sansa won't like. His obsession with her will be his undoing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alester Florent Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 It's obvious that both of them have liabilities, but it's harder to point to actual mistakes. A risky move that pays off isn't a mistake. With Varys, his motives at any given time have been so opaque that it's hard to tell what he actually wanted to happen in any given instance. There are a few times where something he put in motion doesn't seem to have gone according to plan: doing a deal for Ned's life while underestimating Joffrey's input; the unsuccessful assassination of Daenerys; letting Tyrion into the tunnels where he was able to murder Tywin... but were these all just part of the plan? LF's biggest and most obvious mistake is historic: believing Cat was in love with him. That then leads to the duel with Brandon and so forth. I suspect that he thinks he made an error somewhere in setting in motion events which ended with Cat's death: for all that he's a shit, I don't think he wanted her dead. Biggest recent mistake was probably kissing Sansa in the garden: that triggered the situation where he had to kill Lysa, and thereby led to the business with the Lords Declarant and so on. While Lysa was annoying, he had probably intended to keep her around for a while longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aejohn the Conqueroo Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 Choosing the Lolys disguise on the day Marcella was shipped off to Dorrne might have been a decision that Varys regrets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRANDON GREYSTARK Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 On 2/29/2024 at 5:29 PM, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said: Varys and Littlefinger are often presented by the fandom as the masters of the game of thrones in the saga, more cunning, manipulative and dangerous than any other player of the game so far, with them pulling the strings of the most impactful events in current Westeros and untouched by danger and threats so far. But no mastermind as cunning, smart, pragmatic and cautious as he/she is can avoid making mistakes or surprise events that might endanger their schemes and survival, and Varys and LF are no exceptions. What are the various mistakes they have done that could have backfired or may backfire on them in the long run ? What seeds have they unknowingly sowed that might spell their doom later in the story ? What are the worst mistakes or errors they have done, and how grave of a mistake/error is it ? Until we know their end game, it is hard to tell . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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