Details, details, details part III

[Prince of the North]

Cersei came out first. Jaime was holding her foot. It's been suggested by someone here (don't remember who) that it's quite possible that the hand that was holding Cersei's foot at birth is the hand that was cut off. Pretty neat symbolism there if that's actually the case.

I REALLY, REALLY like the symbolism of the "connection" between Cercei and Jaime being truly "severed" now. I hope it was intentional on Martin's part

[Ser Warpechowski]

I´m pretty sure it has been mentioned already, but the single person who directly mentioned that the red comet was related to dragons was Old Nan.

Also, I guess that shows us that most of her stories do hold some truth to it.

[delete this account pls]

Agreed about Ned. Beneath the icy formality, courtesy and honor there's a wry sense of humour and sarcasm. At a guess, I'd say that's why Robert and Ned became such good friends as children.

[ThomasFoster]

In Feast when Cersei and Qyburn have been torturing the Blue Bard, after he confesses Cersei orders Qyburn to detain him until the trial. When Qyburn suggests that Margaery might notice his disappearance, Cersei replies,

Singers come and go, they are infamous for it

I never noticed the innuendo in that line until now.

[ThomasFoster]

Cool, I got made a Squire! And I didn't even have to assassinate anyone.

[Piper]

"Salladhor Saan thinks only of gold!" Stannis exploded. "His head is full of dreams of the treasure he fancies lies under the Red Keep, so let us hear no more of Salladhor Saan. The day I need military counsel from a Lysene brigand is the day I put off my crown and take the black." The king made a fist. "Are you here to serve me, smuggler? Or to vex me with arguments?"

I'm calling it right now, if he ever takes Salladhor's advice, he eventualy will put aside his crown and take the black (not because he swore he would, but because of the foreshadowing ).

[Starkess]

Ooh, I like that! Could be a neat bit of foreshadowing there!

[The_BlauerDragon]

"A year ago I was scheming to make the girl Robert's queen," Renly said, "but what does it matter? The boar got Robert and I got Margaery. You'll be pleased to know she came to me a maid."

I find special significance to this line. If Renly was conspiring to put her into Robert's arms... Surely the Tyrells were in on that conspiracy (The Queen of Thorns at the very least). That would explain a lot about how they've factored into the story so far... They were promised a chance to crown her, and when Robert died, they played hop-scotch and kept whoring her out to the best possible candidate along the way to get her to that crown...

[The_BlauerDragon]

I'm calling it right now, if he ever takes Salladhor's advice, he eventualy will put aside his crown and take the black (not because he swore he would, but because of the foreshadowing ).

I think you're right. He very well may end up swearing allegiance to the wall over seeking the crown. He's an honorable man, and defending the wall means defending the kingdoms... indeed defending all mankind.

Now that Tyrion used the tunnels beneath the Red Keep to reach and kill Tywin... and it was made quite clear that there were many more tunnels other than the ones Varys led him down... I'd say that we can safely begin specualting about the Treasure to be found there also... Now, a question... The theory of Varys is Illirio has been thoroughly debunked... but has anyone ever compared and contrasted Varys and Salladhor Saan?

[Potboy]

I do not think that would be possible as Saan was at and frequently seen at Dragon stone at the same time that Varys was at and frequently seen at KL. They are too far apart for a quick switch.

[Sarella]

Agreed. Also, Salladhor is an old friend of Davos from Davos' smuggling days. It would have required way too much foresight for Varys to disguise himself as a pirate and make friends with Davos years and years ago, knowing that one day Davos would fall into favor with Stannis.

[Brother Wolf]

They were promised a chance to crown her, and when Robert died, they played hop-scotch and kept whoring her out to the best possible candidate along the way to get her to that crown...

Margaery doesn't seem to mind. If she does, she's doing a good job of hiding it. I'm not making any bigtime character judgments here, but it seems like she's willing to marry whomever it takes to be Queen.

[the silent speaker]

Brother Wolf: It's not like she has all that much of a choice. She'll marry who her father tells her to marry, and she puts up with it because she knows it's her duty to do so.

Sarella and Potboy: ... Which only goes to show you just how clever Vays is!

[ThomasFoster]

I dunno. Initially they were planning on marrying her to Robert - that, I'll concede, is not the best plan in the world. But still not like marrying her to Balon Greyjoy. There would be a considerable Tyrell presence at court to keep him well behaved. It may well have included the Knight of Flowers even if he wasn't wearing white.

Then they try to marry her to Renly, who is knocking off her brother. Not only is he not likely to have any bizarre fetishes for her to satisfy (apart, perhaps, from cutting her hair, and not turning round 'til he's done) he's in love with someone who loves her, and "on-side" with her politically anyway. In fact, as arranged marriages go this could have been the easiest ever on the bride - if you've got to be forced into marriage with someone, surely it's better for him to be gay - at least you'll have things to talk about.

Then Joffrey, whom they clearly have no intention of her actually marrying. Even married to Tommen a Tyrell presence in Kings Landing and Loras on the Kingsguard is a good guarantor of her health.

[Benjen Snow]

Then they try to marry her to Renly, who is knocking off her brother. Not only is he not likely to have any bizarre fetishes for her to satisfy (apart, perhaps, from cutting her hair, and not turning round 'til he's done) he's in love with someone who loves her, and "on-side" with her politically anyway. In fact, as arranged marriages go this could have been the easiest ever on the bride - if you've got to be forced into marriage with someone, surely it's better for him to be gay - at least you'll have things to talk about.

Good point about the ease of the arranged marriage for Maergery but I have to wonder about the more to talk about part. I am unsure that today's metrosexual more femininely aligned gay male culture really projects back as a package to our Medieval world or to Westeros. Certainly, the physical behavior or man/man sex is present but beyond that they seem to be warriors entrenched in the Manly pursuits of there day. That doesn't preclude a different gay culture existing their but I can't say we have really seen it in the books.

[Joey Geko]

-:Insert Obligatory Apology For Possible Repeat Here:-

Small bit o' foreshadowing that was brought to my attention by a good friend (Scott P. here's a "shout out" for you.):

In the list of things that the Kindly Old Man tells Arya that the Many-Faced God will take from her, he says, "He will take your sad eyes, that have seen so much."

{Quoted from memory, may not be exact verbiage}

[The_BlauerDragon]

-:Insert Obligatory Apology For Possible Repeat Here:-

Small bit o' foreshadowing that was brought to my attention by a good friend (Scott P. here's a "shout out" for you.):

In the list of things that the Kindly Old Man tells Arya that the Many-Faced God will take from her, he says, "He will take your sad eyes, that have seen so much."

{Quoted from memory, may not be exact verbiage}

That's exactly why I am leaning more and more towards the belief that her blindness was not a punishment, but rather a graduation. She learned a lesson and killed a man that Arya of house Stark wanted dead while she was in the guise of Cat of the Canals. Step one of her training is complete, now on to phase two.

[redcandle17]

Good point about the ease of the arranged marriage for Maergery but I have to wonder about the more to talk about part. I am unsure that today's metrosexual more femininely aligned gay male culture really projects back as a package to our Medieval world or to Westeros. Certainly, the physical behavior or man/man sex is present but beyond that they seem to be warriors entrenched in the Manly pursuits of there day. That doesn't preclude a different gay culture existing their but I can't say we have really seen it in the books.

I believe it is said that Renly is the best dressed man at court and spends more money on his clothes than most ladies. He and Marg could have gone shopping together or discuss fashion.

[McCracken]

Has anybody noticed the irony that Jaime who crippled Bran in a way that made him have to reassert his identity has himself now been crippled and has had to to think his own identity..........

[redcandle17]

Has anybody noticed the irony that Jaime who crippled Bran in a way that made him have to reassert his identity has himself now been crippled and has had to to think his own identity..........

Yes, but I'm more appreciative of the fact that Bran, whose dream was to be a Kingsguard, was crippled by one of the Kingsguard.

And to be on topic, I'll add a random insignificant detail: Megga Tyrell, who was so eager in Sansa's ASoS POV to be kissed, apparently kissed a kitchen boy in AFfC.