Gwywen Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 I found two more things, both in ASoS: Thoros saying 'the lord of Light still having some plans with Joffrey's dog' and, in the Sansa chapter where Lysa and Petyr get married; Sansa sadly thinking the only way she'll get married is because of her claims. No one will ever marry me for love. I'm not completely sure, but I think she repeats that thought again in AFFC. I do hope San+San will eventually find each other and express their real feelings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sholtzma Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 I found two more things, both in ASoS: Thoros saying 'the lord of Light still having some plans with Joffrey's dog' and, in the Sansa chapter where Lysa and Petyr get married; Sansa sadly thinking the only way she'll get married is because of her claims. No one will ever marry me for love. I'm not completely sure, but I think she repeats that thought again in AFFC. I do hope San+San will eventually find each other and express their real feelings. So, it would appear that R'hollor, the old gods, and the Seven have plans for Sandor. Must be important! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwywen Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 I think: the gods vs someone playing god. (=Qyburn and his Gregorstein project). Something that has been bothering me for a while; Sandor being so ugly because of his scars. I personally think the other half of his face is not ugly at all. Someone on the dogs-wolves thread even mentioned some resemblance to Stark-features. I have a sort of crackpot here: The Elder Brother is known for his healing abilities. (Even transplantations, I don't recall where I've read that, though.) Could it be possible to heal Sandor's scars? If it's not possible, I think there's no problem at all, for Sansa dreams of marrying someone who looks like Loras. I think Sandor and Loras could not look more alike at this moment. If she finds out about Loras' fate... (fill in the rest) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IthilanorStPete Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 There's an SSM someswere saying that Sandor's only average-looking on the non-burned side. As for healing his scars...I don't think medicine in Westeros is quite up to that level yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westrosi Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 I have a sort of crackpot here: The Elder Brother is known for his healing abilities. (Even transplantations, I don't recall where I've read that, though.) Could it be possible to heal Sandor's scars? He'd have to help Sandor regrow an ear! Also, I think some of the wounds go almost to the bone! Not healable, I think, but more importantly I think Elder Brother would be of the mindset that the will of the 7 was for Sandor to have been disfigured, and part of what he needs to do is become at peace with his wounds (and how he got them). Assuming, of couse, Sandor is not dead in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwywen Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 LOL what a disappointment, the Gravedigger not being Sandor All our beautiful theories right into the trashcan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sholtzma Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 I think: the gods vs someone playing god. (=Qyburn and his Gregorstein project). Something that has been bothering me for a while; Sandor being so ugly because of his scars. I personally think the other half of his face is not ugly at all. Someone on the dogs-wolves thread even mentioned some resemblance to Stark-features. I have a sort of crackpot here: The Elder Brother is known for his healing abilities. (Even transplantations, I don't recall where I've read that, though.) Could it be possible to heal Sandor's scars? If it's not possible, I think there's no problem at all, for Sansa dreams of marrying someone who looks like Loras. I think Sandor and Loras could not look more alike at this moment. If she finds out about Loras' fate... (fill in the rest) I think the worst of his appearance stemmed from his anger and "snarling, twisted" appearance. Sansa noted that his scars were not the thing that bothered her the most, it was the anger in his eyes. Many of the female characters in the books talk about being attracted to men that have dangerous-looking scars, so I don't think the scars are that negative/will turn out to be important in the end. It will be the deeds that he does, as a new kind of person, that really distinguishes him from what he was before, IMHO. As nice as it would be for the gods to reconstruct his face to as good as new, it's kind of cheesy and not very realistic. And it wouldn't make him extremely good looking anyway, he would still be homely (like Florian!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwywen Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 I must admit I would be quite disappointed if Elder Brother would have helped him get rid of his scars. You're right about his eyes, that's what scared Sansa in the beginning. They have been referred to quite often especially in AGOT. His eyes, and the way he talks, full of anger and painfully honest. I remember too Sansa referring to Tyrion as the ugliest looking man she's ever seen. Tyrion, not Sandor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westrosi Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 I remember too Sansa referring to Tyrion as the ugliest looking man she's ever seen. Tyrion, not Sandor. well, he is missing most of his nose! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwywen Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 I think she said that somewhere in AGoT, when he was still complete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trackrunner Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 I'm afraid I don't really get the point. Are you saying Sansa must love/be attracted to Sandor because he's not as ugly as Tyrion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Other-in-law Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 I think she said that somewhere in AGoT, when he was still complete. She said it in aSoS on their wedding night after he forced her to look at him. She never had any cause to look at him in aGoT (let alone interest), where they only ever met in Winterfell, when she didn't even have a POV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tourmaline Dragon Posted October 19, 2007 Author Share Posted October 19, 2007 I remember too Sansa referring to Tyrion as the ugliest looking man she's ever seen. Tyrion, not Sandor. Sansa thinks to herself that Tyrion is ugly when she has to kiss him during their marriage ceremony: He is so ugly, Sansa thought when his face was close to hers. He is even uglier than the Hound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwywen Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 I was quite certain she mentioned it earlier, and after speedreading 4 books I found the quote; it was in ACOK, during the tournament for Joffrey's birthday. Tyrion returned on that very day, and Sansa thinks of him as 'the ugliest man she had ever seen'. (Sandor also being present at that moment) I agree with Trackrunner Sandor being not as ugly as Tyrion doesn't automatically mean she'll fall in love with him, but surely it's in Sandor's favor, Sansa having been married to the ugliest man in Westeros. I think it's only a matter of time before the unconsumed marriage will be declared void. Hopefully Sandor will find her in time. Anyone notice the names of some of the mountain clans? Black ears (Sandor missing one ear), Burned Men (no explanation needed) and Painted Dogs. Wonder if those names contain some foreshadowing. Perhaps they'd help Sandor get to the Vale. Remember when he tried to get there with Arya, it was the man from the village who warned them from the mountain clans. Sandor never met the clans himself, so it was merely the opinion of the villager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sholtzma Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 For all the Sandor fans out there (I also posted this in the "artwork" topic): http://mathia.110mb.com/myriadrivers.html Click on "Song of Ice and Fire" - this doesn't cut and paste in the url so you have to do it yourself when in the site. I had never seen this artwork before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashcandy Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Great info, so a bump is warranted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3LittleBirds Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Great info, so a bump is warranted Thread-necromancer! Will have to have a readthrough in the AM (well, it's already AM, so later AM I guess ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashcandy Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Thread-necromancer! Will have to have a readthrough in the AM (well, it's already AM, so later AM I guess ) I hope you've had your read through by now 3LB, because this thread is spectacular! I've read everything, and I'm completely re-mesmerised with all the symbolism that surrounds Sandor and Sansa - the bloody cloak being, IMO, the most significant. As noted, the cloak is a powerful symbol of marriage and Sansa has now received Sandor's cloak twice- first to cover her nakedness and later when she wraps herself in it to make herself feel safer. So, Sandor has in effect already assumed the role as Sansa's husband - - both as protector and as a sexual partner. When the cloak becomes bloodied-- and Sansa wraps it around her, it represents the symbolic loss of her virginity to Sandor -- we know that the sheets of virgins were expected to be bloody after their first sexual experience, and so again, we have Sandor as the taker of Sansa's virginity. (Sheds new light on the intensity of that bedroom scene, huh ) When Sansa chooses to place the cloak in her cedar chest, it highlights the importance of it and the sanctity of their union. No one can breach it. Not Joffrey, not Tyrion, not Dontos, not Marillion, and definitely not Littlefinger. Sansa is, for all intents and purposes, spoken for. I truly believe that the cloak is in the Vale with Sansa. When LF points out the cedar chest and tells her she'll find "fresh garb within. Dresses, smallclothes, warm stockings, a cloak", it simply can't be coincidental given that Sansa has also hidden Sandor's cloak in a cedar chest. I'm not asserting that this is the same chest with the same cloak, but the association is still clear. And even if the cloak is not in the vale, it does not lessen the fact that it binds Sandor and Sansa together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashcandy Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before, but this is an except from GRMM's "The Skin Trade" a short story/novellete he wrong quite a while ago: "Her bedroom furnishings were a hodge-podge.... and the cedar chest at the foot of the bed. Her mother always used to call it a hope chest. Did little girls still keep hope chests? She didn't think so, at least not around here. Maybe there were still places where hope didn't seem so terribly unrealistic, but this city wasn't one of them... Hope chests were where you kept your future, all the little things that were part of the dreams that taught you to dream when you were a a child." I'm so excited for what this could portend for the future of the San/San relationship. If indeed this is what hope chests are for, then Sansa's keeping of the cloak in her chest indicates that she's keeping the relationship for a time when it can exist and be enjoyed. That time is obviously not now, with war and strife and cutthroat politics, but later, for sure And the whole idea of keeping the things that taught you how to dream is a nice shout out to Sandor as the true knight of Sansa's fantasies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleDragon Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Beautiful and very promising symbolisme of the cedar chest! Let's hope the best :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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