NBA Thread

[aeu]

So, probably the most exciting trading period in recent memory, lots of changes and uncertainity, unbelivable play-off race in the West, some great games (Suns vs. Lakers? Celtics at Golden State? Paul beating Kidd, all on the very same night)...

And no one cares? Either you people are dead or NBA has a serious, serious problem.

I just wish Arak was still around. I'm even willing to admit Kobe has a comparable supporting cast to Nash this year.

[Commodore]

The next few months in the West is going to be a playoff to get into the playoffs.

5 losses separate teams 1-8. A bunch of big trades make things even less clear.

As a die hard Rockets fan, this is going to am exciting few months for me.

Chris Paul is this year's MVP btw up to this point, not Garnett.

[Jaime L]

Slate had a good article of what's so demoralizing about NBA trades. It's exciting to see powerhouse teams (at least on paper) being assembled all over the western conference. But there's something that feels off about how the trades actually function. They're so convoluted and 50% of the guys in the average trade are just fill-in guys whom none of the teams involved could give a fuck about. The valuing of expiring contracts over all else ...or how the Dallas trade could only go through, once a defacto retired guy (Van Horn) shows up for at practice for a day, collects $4 million and is instantly cut. Let alone how it could be held up by a mediocre player who remarkably has a no-trade clause. Think this came to a head for me with the recent Cleveland-Chicago-Seattle deal. I've never seen so many unwanted albatross guys being swapped. Hughes and Gooden to Chicago. Wallace and Sczerbiak to Cleveland. A six pack of Miller Lite to Seattle. But instead of exciting and energized by all the guys in new places and excitement to see how it shakes it out, I'm enervated by the feeling that everyone involved is more glad to get rid of the guys they did than be excited over who they got. The only thing more valuable than the living, breathing, hard-working guys on your roster is them not being there. Doesn't matter what skills they have, only what their contract is and how it can be packaged for draft picks and space. How it comes off is that the NBA is devaluing so many of its own guys, chasing after the exalted 10%...but if their teams don't care about these guys, why should I?

Also, been wondering about teams like New Jersey and Memphis who traded a star for draft picks and cap room...but who's going to want to sign there? Has the "let's make room for a big offseason splash" strategy ever worked out when you don't have a star left on your roster to lure the big name in?

As for this thread, I wish it were hopping more too. The Wizards without Arenas aren't quite the same (although the season has unfolded (eerily) exactly the same as last...which still leaves a bad taste in my mouth) and I've been following 'em more casually as result. Caliban's probably depressed over the Bulls and Makaha's probably depressed over the D. Wade and the Heat. Arakasi and Starfall were heavy posters but both are gone this year. Only your Lakers are peaking right now Aeu, even as you hate 'em you're interested by 'em. And justly so. Just seems like most of the 8 NBA fans on this board are depressed.

All that said, the plus side is that all those trades have created a legitimately fascinating dynamic in the Western Conference. For all its recent dominance, it is now absolutely ridiculous. Which means, I'm betting on serious interest come Playoff time. Anyone who's even remotely interested in the NBA will be seeing how the top 4 scrum of San Antonio, Phoenix, Dallas and LA shakes out. And for the more serious fan, there's also Houston, Utah, Golden State and Denver who are legitimately dangerous in their own right. Every first round matchup will have some serious juice, and then whomever advances, the second round will be Must-see TV across the board. Eastern Conference doesn't have nearly the compelling stories outside of Boston. But assuming (hoping) they make the finals, think we could have one of the sexiest NBA finals in years. Just have to make it through the dog days of the NBA season and get to where games actually count.

[Slyfinger]

Yawn...

Is it the playoffs yet? I'll admit this was the most exciting deadline I've ever seen but honestly, things don't really heat up for the NBA until the playoffs roll around. It's kinda like the NCAA with the Madness...

[aeu]

Yawn...

Is it the playoffs yet? I'll admit this was the most exciting deadline I've ever seen but honestly, things don't really heat up for the NBA until the playoffs roll around. It's kinda like the NCAA with the Madness...

Dude, have you seen the Lakers - Suns game on Wednesday? It was better than virtually all the playoff games I have watched. Intense as hell, yet also played exceptionally well (unlike those drags most playoff games devolve into).

Plus, with 5 games seperating top 9 teams in the West, practically every game is a playoff game now. Lose 2 games in a row, you will go from top spot to 5th. Literally. A couple more, you'll out of the playoffs.

Jaime, good post as usual. Let me go find that Slate article.

[Slyfinger]

Dude, have you seen the Lakers - Suns game on Wednesday? It was better than virtually all the playoff games I have watched. Intense as hell, yet also played exceptionally well (unlike those drags most playoff games devolve into).

Plus, with 5 games seperating top 9 teams in the West, practically every game is a playoff game now. Lose 2 games in a row, you will go from top spot to 5th. Literally. A couple more, you'll out of the playoffs.

Jaime, good post as usual. Let me go find that Slate article.

I'm not saying it won't be an exciting finish in the wild, wild West(because it will) I'm saying the average sports fan attention won't be roused until maybe a week or two before the playoffs kick off. With all the moves made by the teams in contention, except possibly the Lakers, most of these teams need time to gel. I'm talking to you, Cleveland. And let's be honest, people don't want see geling(?!?), they want to see Sportcenter highlights.

Besides, being a Pistons fan, our spot in the playoffs is assured. While I will keep an eye open for any game involving any of the following teams: LA, Boston, Detroit(watch out for them mailing it in for the rest of the season), Denver, Utah, Cleveland, Phoenix, and New Orleans, the rest of the league doesn't exist for me. Sorry Dallas, I'm not a believer.

... except hearing about the Bulls and Knicks losing. That never gets old.

[dits]

Speaking of the Playoffs, I'm just trying to wrap my mind around how competetive the first round of the Western Conference is gonna be and the fact that at least two good teams are gonna be left out of it. As current standings go its:

Hornets vs Warriors (possible upset, rooting for GS here, how awesome would it be it they beat the 1st seed again),

Lakers vs Rockets (interesting big man match up and Kobe vs TMac),

Suns vs Mavericks (Dirk's old PG vs new PG),

Jazz vs Spurs (actually like the Jazz's chances this year, the Korver trade seems to have really got them clicking).

And Portland and Denver are left out. Where is the justice in that?

In contrast, the Eastern conference has more or less locked the top 4 spots for the Celtics, Pistons, Magic and Cavaliers. I cannot imagine any of the top 4 getting toppled. Toronto may give the Cavs or the Magic some serious competition but I cannot really see them winning a series with either.

Just wanted to comment on the Cavs trade. I think Lebron got the help he needs though not sure if they're good enough to get him in the Finals again. They've got a solid contributor in Smith, maybe an improved interior defense if they can get Big Ben motivated and Wally World to boost up their offense. Not too bad. I hope they iron out any chemistry issues before the Playoffs though at this point I'm still pulling for KG and the Celtics.

On another note, the odds of a Celtics vs Lakers Finals is pretty nice.

[Analu]

Other than Jaime's reason that I'm depressed with my team, I haven't been posting in this thread because I haven't had the chance to watch much NBA this year, and because when I was in school, I used to spend hours on the Internet checking the boxscores and hitting all my NBA sites. There was nothing else to do in class. Well, except maybe paying attention to the lecture

But now that I'm out of school, I don't have that luxury anymore, so am more out of the loop now.

Anyways, might be a week or two late with my scintillating analysis, but I'm pretty stoked about the Marion-Shaq trade. I heard Riley compare pairing up Marion and Wade to Jordan and Pippen. I'm not so delusional to think they're going to have the same level of success, but it's not a terrible comparison. Like MJ and Scottie, they're super-athletic, play defense and rebound well for their position. And getting rid of that albatross of a Shaq-contract was big. Even if Marion opts out when the season ends, we'll have plenty of cap space and the attraction of playing with Wade and living in Miami to lure the big-name free agents.

I heard all this outrage over how badly Memphis got fleeced in the Gasol deal, but I'm not seeing it as that terrible. But I've never been that high on Pau in the first place. I also think the Kidd deal was a mistake for the Mavs, but I guess if they think Dirk has only a couple years left in his prime, now would be the time to go for broke.

And I'm happy with the Rockets 11-game win streak. They're my second favorite team, so am hoping they continue this streak and make the playoffs. But their division is ridiculously stacked, and I don't see them getting out of the first round.... which shouldn't be a surprise, since they haven't made it out of the first round in over a decade (I think).

[Commodore]

And I'm happy with the Rockets 11-game win streak. They're my second favorite team, so am hoping they continue this streak and make the playoffs. But their division is ridiculously stacked, and I don't see them getting out of the first round.... which shouldn't be a surprise, since they haven't made it out of the first round in over a decade (I think).

The Rockets annihilated the Hornets by 20 pts in NO. They are for real. TMac and Yao finally have some talent around them to make people pay for double teams. There is almost no one in the league that can guard Yao one-on-one, and he shoots over 80% from the stripe. The Rockets create horrible matchup problems for other teams and have one of the top defenses in the league. No one wants to play them in the first round. I still say

is the most sensational performance in a regular season game ever. Now if only TMac could do it in the playoffs.

[aeu]

Only your Lakers are peaking right now Aeu, even as you hate 'em you're interested by 'em. And justly so.

You know, it's hard for me to admit this, but I don't think I hate them anymore. It's just not in me. When they were going for those 3 championships with Shaq & Kobe, I absolutely loathed them. I smashed a remote on the wall when Horry made that 3 from the ball Divac tipped outside. Those days my favourite team was whoever was playing the Lakers.

Now...I don't know, I guess this particular team just grew on me. I have watched them struggle and overachieve for a number of years now. Most of the guys playing significant roles now, they have drafted relatively low and those guys are really delivering this season more than what would normally be expected from them. Farmar, Sasha, Luke, Bynum, Turiaf...Even guys like Lamar and Radmanovic, who were known to have talent, yet never quite played up to their promise (and I've watched those guys for the Lakers before, something always seemed to be missing and they almost always underachieved in the end), even those guys are becoming surprisingly dependable. And Kobe has really transformed himself into someone who can play within the system and still dominate games. His play has been truly amazing recently.

Long story short, I'm intrigued by this team. There are still teams I would support over them, particularly a surprise team like Utah or New Orleans. But if in the end it was between the Lakers and the usual suspects (Spurs, Suns, Dallas, Boston, Detroit), I wouldn't be sad with THIS Lakers team winning it all.

Anyways, might be a week or two late with my scintillating analysis, but I'm pretty stoked about the Marion-Shaq trade. I heard Riley compare pairing up Marion and Wade to Jordan and Pippen. I'm not so delusional to think they're going to have the same level of success, but it's not a terrible comparison. Like MJ and Scottie, they're super-athletic, play defense and rebound well for their position. And getting rid of that albatross of a Shaq-contract was big. Even if Marion opts out when the season ends, we'll have plenty of cap space and the attraction of playing with Wade and living in Miami to lure the big-name free agents.

I understand the excitement, Wade + Marion looks great on paper. I hope they deliver.

This level of ineptitude from Miami is really surprising. I know Shaq didn't do anything for them this season, Zo is out, Wade is still not 100%, etc... But they are playing historically bad basketball right now. Losing 26 of 27? And it's not like they are facing great teams every night.

I haven't seen too much of Miami and I keep reading Wade is still not all the way back. Still, checking the stats, he is shooting a decent percentage, getting a bunch of assists and still capable of scoring big numbers (though not consistently). You would think Wade + 4 NBA role players would win games every once in a while in the East. Hell, Seattle has 15 wins in the West with 2 rookies and pretty much nothing else.

I heard all this outrage over how badly Memphis got fleeced in the Gasol deal, but I'm not seeing it as that terrible. But I've never been that high on Pau in the first place.

I've been a big fan of Pau, ever since he was a youngster playing in Europe. He was almost never in a good position with the Grizzlies, that's just a bad organization from top to bottom. He also got a reputation as soft / not quite a leader etc... but I really think it's not deserved. If you have watched him in the European and World championships over the years, you would know that's BS.

In either case, he has been a great fit for this Lakers team. Since he came to LA, he's been averaging 22 points and 7.5 rebounds, shooting more than 65%. And the team just flows much better, he's a pretty smart player.

Random notes:

- Watched Shaq's 2 games with Suns: Against the Lakers and Celtics. He looks much much better than I expected. He doesn't even look that fat. This thing might actually work after all.

Of course he was busting his ass like I've never seen him do before. It would be interesting to see if he can keep it up until the end of the season.

- Has anybody been following Manu lately? He's averaging career bests in points, rebounds and assists this year. Last 5 games he scored 34-46-18-44 and 30, shooting 60%+... on 3 pointers!!! He's playing out of his mind right now.

- Upthread I said "Lose two games and you can go from top spot to 5th in the West" Turns out I was wrong: Losing 1 game was enough. NO started the day as the number 1 seed and finished it as number 5! It will be a crazy finish in the West.

[Alex the Mediocre]

I haven't posted in like two years. With that said...!!!

I'm definitely in the make it the TOP 16 TEAMS period bandwagon. It seems unfair knowing that either Golden State, Portland, Denver, (or whomever has a bad few games in the west really) are going to miss the playoffs while all these sub .500 teams in the east get a chance to play for a ring just cause of geography.

here are some of my thoughts:

i hope the rockets get through the first round. watching t-mac choke up at that press conference is not something i want to see again. i've always found him a basically honorable dude, and watching them go down to the jazz (who then defeated my precious Warriors) was painful.

i second the opinion that chris paul is mvp. the dude is a leader, and it shows.

i haven't had a chance to see the new mav lineup with jason "i'm older than chris webber" kidd. i

don't have a lot of love for the mavericks, nor for the jazz, but i'd love to see them bloody each other up in a 7 game series, culminating with a satisfying utah defeat. sorry jerry!

the new lakers are fearsome, from what little i've seen and it is only going to get better for them. i'm trying to think of a good matchup for them in the playoffs. i'd love love love to see the suns eke out a win against them, then have the warriors beat the suns. in a seven game series

i'd give the warriors no chance of beating the lakers, the jazz, very little chance against the mavericks, very little against the hornets. against the spurs i'm torn, because i've been conditioned to believe the team is super mechanical and formidable, but i've seen them play some really shitty games this season. manu did pass the ball through some scrub's legs in one game though, that was pretty bassical. the rockets and the suns we'd have a slim chance of taking down. i think the warriors usually do a pretty good job neutralizing yao, and tmac has his off nights. of course, even though i BELIEVE and i love the team, it is hard for me to not see denver make the playoffs with the talent they have (iverson, most loathed player!).

meanwhile, the nets, bulls, pacers, wizards, and hawks can all play over there in the east and slide on in with sub 500 records.

my predicition, pistons walk away with it in the east. the celtics are coming back down to earth. i just want to see rip hamilton's mask as much as possible.

[Analu]

The Rockets annihilated the Hornets by 20 pts in NO. They are for real. TMac and Yao finally have some talent around them to make people pay for double teams. There is almost no one in the league that can guard Yao one-on-one, and he shoots over 80% from the stripe. The Rockets create horrible matchup problems for other teams and have one of the top defenses in the league.

Bolded by me.

That's what was being said about them three years ago, when they got Stromile, Derek Anderson and Alston, and they still lost in the first round. Same as last year, when they got Battier and again, first round exit. And they weren't just your run-of-the-mill first round exits. They were agonizing, heart-breaking 7-game exits.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big Rockets fan, and Yao and T-Mac are probably my next favorite players after Wade, so I'm cautiously optimistic.... but they kept saying last year how getting home court advantage was the key to getting out of the first round, and it didn't help them against the Jazz. And it's almost a sure thing they won't be one of the top 4 teams going into the playoffs. And I don't think Adelman's all that great, and was a big JVG fan, even if he slowed things down to a standstill. But yeah, I hope I'm wrong.

This level of ineptitude from Miami is really surprising. I know Shaq didn't do anything for them this season, Zo is out, Wade is still not 100%, etc... But they are playing historically bad basketball right now. Losing 26 of 27? And it's not like they are facing great teams every night.

I haven't seen too much of Miami and I keep reading Wade is still not all the way back. Still, checking the stats, he is shooting a decent percentage, getting a bunch of assists and still capable of scoring big numbers (though not consistently). You would think Wade + 4 NBA role players would win games every once in a while in the East. Hell, Seattle has 15 wins in the West with 2 rookies and pretty much nothing else.

I'm at a complete loss for how bad they are, too. I know they're playing notoriously bad D, but 26 losses in 27 games is ridiculous. I haven't watched much of them since I cancelled NBA League Pass this season, but from what I've seen of Wade, his numbers might be there, but his game is completely off right now. I've never liked it when teams sat their star players when their season was shot, but I wouldn't mind if the Heat sat Wade this year. His style of play is just too risky to keep playing him in a lost season. And if he can convince Marion not to opt out, and Riley makes another move or two, they could be right back in it next year.

I've been a big fan of Pau, ever since he was a youngster playing in Europe. He was almost never in a good position with the Grizzlies, that's just a bad organization from top to bottom. He also got a reputation as soft / not quite a leader etc... but I really think it's not deserved. If you have watched him in the European and World championships over the years, you would know that's BS.

In either case, he has been a great fit for this Lakers team. Since he came to LA, he's been averaging 22 points and 7.5 :thumbsup:rebounds, shooting more than 65%. And the team just flows much better, he's a pretty smart player.

Could be you're right. I admit, I haven't watched enough of him to be a great judge of his talent, but I had always bought into his rep as a soft, finesse-type player with no D. But there's no arguing his and the Lakers numbers since he came over, so maybe I'm wrong.

[Jaime L]

I heard all this outrage over how badly Memphis got fleeced in the Gasol deal, but I'm not seeing it as that terrible. But I've never been that high on Pau in the first place.

Even if you don't like Pau, what did Memphis get? A young point guard when they already have two fighting for minutes, Kwame Brown's expiring contract which gives 'em a chance of getting rejected by every big name in the off-season, first round picks which will all be in the mid-20s and the rights to Marc Gasol, who at this point is as much like Pau Gasol as Jordan Palmer is like Carson. What's that add up to? Jack. Squat. It's the equivalent of a fantasy trade with Jaxom where you give up 4 waiver guys for a first rounder. Pau Gasol had definite, realizable value out there on the trade market the last two years, and yet they ended up without a single solid asset, nor a player the Lakers will even notice is gone.

And who the fuck is BJ Penn?

In either case, he has been a great fit for this Lakers team. Since he came to LA, he's been averaging 22 points and 7.5 rebounds, shooting more than 65%. And the team just flows much better, he's a pretty smart player.

Really can't see anywhere else he could've gone where he's so needed or able to thrive. His style compliments Bynum nearly perfectly. Pretty remarkable that Lamar Odom is now their fourth best player. Kupchak's on such a roll recently, makes you wonder how they'd be if they still had Caron. But they needed Kwame's contract to get Gasol, so to some small degree, he's almost vindicated there too. Almost. Alright, not really.

I haven't posted in like two years. With that said...!!!

Well there's a proud moment for the NBA thread. It brings people out of retirement.

[Analu]

Even if you don't like Pau, what did Memphis get? A young point guard when they already have two fighting for minutes, Kwame Brown's expiring contract which gives 'em a chance of getting rejected by every big name in the off-season, first round picks which will all be in the mid-20s and the rights to Marc Gasol, who at this point is as much like Pau Gasol as Jordan Palmer is like Carson. What's that add up to? Jack. Squat. It's the equivalent of a fantasy trade with Jaxom where you give up 4 waiver guys for a first rounder. Pau Gasol had definite, realizable value out there on the trade market the last two years, and yet they ended up without a single solid asset, nor a player the Lakers will even notice is gone.

Heh. Well, I can't really counter that with anything except to say that there have been some pretty good late first round picks that have turned into studs over the years. I just thought that if they were aiming to tear it all down and start from scratch, a couple of 1st round picks and some cap space wouldn't be a bad place to start. And that's what that trade gave them.

And who the fuck is BJ Penn?

C'mon Jaime. He's only the greatest P4P fighter in the world! And he's from Hawaii, so I'm representin and giving my tribute to him! I've gotta get your sorry ass interested in MMA and posting in that thread, if only so I can feel more knowledgable than you in one topic

[Jaime L]

C'mon Jaime. He's only the greatest P4P fighter in the world! And he's from Hawaii, so I'm representin and giving my tribute to him! I've gotta get your sorry ass interested in MMA and posting in that thread, if only so I can feel more knowledgable than you in one topic

I like what little MMA I've seen. I like the concept too. Guess I just gotta get over my disappointment that the matches never resemble Bloodsport. I want to see more spinning roundhouses, sumos and pec flexing. Y'know like Knicks basketball back in the 90s.

[Greywolf2375]

Lakers vs Rockets (interesting big man match up and Kobe vs TMac),

may need to put this one on the shelf...Yao is down now for the rest of the year, including playoffs, based on what is being reported...stress fracture in his foot. Just when they were ready to make some noise...

[aeu]

Just saw that on ESPN. Such a shame.

[Commodore]

:bawl: :bawl:

[dits]

Houston must be jinxed or something. Just when things start clicking, this happens. This sucks so much especially since Yao has been playing really well. He's one of only six players players averaging a 20-10 this season.

[aeu]

I take it you're a Houston fan?

Either that or he's really scared of Portland adding Rudy Fernandez.