CelticBrennus Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 he Wire always treated the audience like intelligent adults, you need to pay attention, pick up clues, read the subtext, etc... But when it comes to this, they behave like they are sermonizing to a bunch of morons. Its not really any different then the story of the schools or the ports though. All Season Two did was say that the unions are dying over and over. All Season 4 did was say the schools are totally messed up over and over. Its the interaction and behavior of the characters in those broken systems thats fun to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zadok Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 My problem with the newspaper storyline is that all the characters feel one dimensional and stereotypical, and that's one thing the Wire has never really done before. I mean Lying Reporter Guy makes shit up, The Editor might as well have a halo around his head, and the bosses are incompetant buffoons. They just don't feel like characters especially when you compare them to others on the show. Now some of that is because the older characters have had multiple seasons to develop, but I mean we're coming up on the end pretty quick here and the newspaper characters don't seem like they're going anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EHK for Darwin Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Its not really any different then the story of the schools or the ports though. All Season Two did was say that the unions are dying over and over. All Season 4 did was say the schools are totally messed up over and over. Its the interaction and behavior of the characters in those broken systems thats fun to watch. Zadok I think really gets to the crux of the problem. There's really not a hint of ambiguity with any of the characters yet. Who was so villainous as to require devil horns on the docks? Sobotka? Ziggy? Each of them was a complex, at times sympathetic but flawed character that sometimes did bad things for good reasons...or bad things for bad ones. And yeah, the schools were messed up but it was filled with people who were either trying to make a difference or who had long since given up doing so. You had the naive and the jaded all trying to work within a flawed system. Granted they've had much more time to 'shine', but even most of the police 'villains' had their redeeming moments. Rawls in particular. And the most notable 'good guys' have done things to make them thoroughly unlikable at times. Kima growing disinterested with the 'parenting' aspect of her relationship. Who knows how we would have reacted to that if Kima were a man who simply said 'ya know, not sure i'm really interested in a kid anymore now that you're 9 months pregnant'. McNulty was more obsessive asshole than shat on hero by season 3. But with the papers? It really does seem like we have oblivious baffoons and unethical scumbags on the one hand, and competent veterans (most of whom are being pushed out) and green, but enthusiastic new guys (one girl really) on the other. None of whom are taking that bold little step from black or white to a hint of grey. Maybe I should give it more of a chance. But I can't really say that I'm the slightest bit vested in the endgame for any of these characters. And sure, their sequences aren't distractingly bad and they're by no means dragging the show down. But the Sun simply hasn't become an integral part of the Wire world yet and I don't think it'd be any better or worse without it at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted January 23, 2008 Author Share Posted January 23, 2008 you need to trust Simon. no reason as of yet no tto, unless you just NEED to find somethign negative to say =P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Bandito Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Going to watch episode 4 this evening. A little bird gave it to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Bandito Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Damn. Yeah. Best episode of the season. Kind of a turning point episode. I agree with whoever said that Clay will find a way out of his mess. Too many different people with their own agendas. He may find the right ally. What type of "Greek" insurance has Marlo gotten himself? Protection from Omar? Or help with his drugs. I still think he is a pale shadow of a character to Avon and Stringer. Some call him cold, I call him boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sal Paradise Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 What type of "Greek" insurance has Marlo gotten himself? Protection from Omar? Or help with his drugs. I still think he is a pale shadow of a character to Avon and Stringer. Some call him cold, I call him boring. Before the final scene of episode 4 I would have agreed with you. He seemed to be a placeholder, just another young hustler unafraid to show muscle, aiming to be the next king. Final scene of ep. 4 elevated him to borderline terrifying, a force determined to eliminate all rivals, and anyone that stood even near to being in his way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaine Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 I totally love the newspaper stuff and I'm more than confident in Simon and company to make it compelling. Of course, as a copywriter, I also go over questions like "is incensed really the right word here?" or can you "evacuate" people every day... so that might have something to do with it. That and I think Clark Johnson is killing in the role of Gus. I trust that Simon can find a way to make the decline of our media just as powerful as he has the decline of the drug war, the working man, and the political and educational systems. Just give it time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted January 23, 2008 Author Share Posted January 23, 2008 That and I think Clark Johnson is killing in the role of Gus. i agree, hes doing an awesome job. did he direct a bunch of earlier wire episodes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Greguh Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 I totally love the newspaper stuff and I'm more than confident in Simon and company to make it compelling. Of course, as a copywriter, I also go over questions like "is incensed really the right word here?" or can you "evacuate" people every day... so that might have something to do with it. That and I think Clark Johnson is killing in the role of Gus. I trust that Simon can find a way to make the decline of our media just as powerful as he has the decline of the drug war, the working man, and the political and educational systems. Just give it time. I agree. I also remember thinking in the earlier phases of Season 4 that the stuff with the kids was kind of pointless and going nowhere, and that turned out to be (for me, at least) perhaps the single most effective, heart-wrenching storyline ever produced in this already-unspeakably-awesome show. Let's just say that we THINK we know who the heroes and the villains are in the newsroom. 4 episodes into S4, who would have predicted that Michael would emerge as the cold-hearted gangsta while Namond would be saved from the streets? As usual, we're presented with types moreso than we are the roles. The middle management weasel, for example, who chides Gus on his profanity, who none of the news guys respect, and both sides know it, who tries to sound more literate than he is ("collegial" atmosphere - loved it - I suppose he meant "congenial") may not turn out to be the complete dickface he seems to be at all times, and may get moments of humantiy (as many of the consummate bureaucrats in the BPD have gotten, such as Landsman and Rawls). The young girl reporter that we've liked so far may wind up doing ugly things to advance herself. Anything can happen. The season's not half done yet. Shit, with The Wire, that means we're still pretty much just introducing characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeu Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Its not really any different then the story of the schools or the ports though. I very much disagree, especially regarding Season-2, but as I sat down to explain why I was thinking the newspaper story is handled much poorly, I realized I really had no desire to diss this season. I really like The Wire. I was particularly pumped up about the newspapers as this seasons' theme (maybe because I was recently watching "State of Play", which is superb, btw.) I want to like it and want the series to end on a high note. So, I'll go along with those who say "It's early yet" and hope it can become something powerful. eta: I definitely agree that Gus Johnson is great in his role. I just wish he has something worthwile to do in the coming episodes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H von T Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 I've watched through episode 7 and I find the newspaper story line very interesting. Simon only has 10 episodes and it's tough to create fully rounded characters in that limited amount of time, especially when you have so many other gripping storylines going on. Is this the best season yet of The Wire? I don't think it will be, but I'm sure Simon will end it much better than David Chase ended the Sopranos. Omar was interviewed today for the full hour on Fresh Air. You can hear it at npr.org. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaine Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 i agree, hes doing an awesome job. did he direct a bunch of earlier wire episodes? I don't know. I know he directs, but I mainly knew him as Detective Meldrick from Homicide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CelticBrennus Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 It might just be that I am way behind the loop, but I just realized that Waylon is Steve Earl, the guy who did Copperhead Road, and more recently Oxycontin Blues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sal Paradise Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 It might just be that I am way behind the loop, but I just realized that Waylon is Steve Earl, the guy who did Copperhead Road, and more recently Oxycontin Blues. And contributes his version of the theme for the intro to Season 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CelticBrennus Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 I knew he did the cover, but damn, I didnt recognize him at all. It is fitting that he did Waylon, as Earl has had serious drug problem for a large part of his life, including a serious addiction to heroin for a while that he kicked while in prison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon of the Hudson Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 As usual, we're presented with types moreso than we are the roles. The middle management weasel, for example, who chides Gus on his profanity, who none of the news guys respect, and both sides know it, who tries to sound more literate than he is ("collegial" atmosphere - loved it - I suppose he meant "congenial") may not turn out to be the complete dickface he seems to be at all times, and may get moments of humantiy (as many of the consummate bureaucrats in the BPD have gotten, such as Landsman and Rawls). I love how in this scene they started to give the editor a sympathetic moment, in a kind of pathetic, unpopular-kid way -- he was smiling at Gus' commentary on the press conference -- but then make him turn around and attack Gus with a really, really weak put-down (no more profanity guuuys, really, be collegial!). It's like Simon can't give these guys an inch. And it's pretty irritating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted January 26, 2008 Author Share Posted January 26, 2008 I love how in this scene they started to give the editor a sympathetic moment, in a kind of pathetic, unpopular-kid way -- he was smiling at Gus' commentary on the press conference -- but then make him turn around and attack Gus with a really, really weak put-down (no more profanity guuuys, really, be collegial!). It's like Simon can't give these guys an inch. And it's pretty irritating. having worked for a newspaper that a) was filled with corporate fucktards interested in selling papers over reporting news and b)run by white collar corporate types instead of real newspaper guys, his take on what is happening within the Baltimore Sun is spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Analu Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 having worked for a newspaper that a) was filled with corporate fucktards interested in selling papers over reporting news and b)run by white collar corporate types instead of real newspaper guys, his take on what is happening within the Baltimore Sun is spot on. Are you talking about yourself or Simon? Because if you mean Simon, maybe it is spot on, but to a lot of people (including myself), it's a one-dimensional, black and white storyline with no gray area. And that's the issue I have with it, not whether or not it's accurate. Frankly, I know nothing about working at a newspaper, so from my untrained eye, it appears he's working with an agenda in mind concerning this storyline. And it's boring me. But I'm not bashing it. Just saying this particular part of the show doesn't interest me at much as the others. It's not going to stop me from watching it or anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted January 26, 2008 Author Share Posted January 26, 2008 oh sorry. i meant myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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