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Mexal

ASOIAF Mafia 47.5 - Holiday Massacre!

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The games going by real slow like.

Anyway, I'm voting for Ser Spider. Don't feel like explaining right now...maybe later :P

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Ok, after getting into a discussion with the mods (after which the conclusion was that Daedalus is definitely mafia, not SK...I don't know how I came to the conclusion that people out there thought Daedalus was a potential SK. I must have imagined those people after seeing the confusing lack of Shadowbaby voters) I did a re-read.

I don't get why we can't just kill Shadowbaby now, but since the mods seem to be engaged in some sort of heated debate as to whether the SK would turn out guilty by the CF or not, I guess guarding her might be the better option. Even if I personally favor killing her now. :dunno:

I'm kind of leaning away from Spider now and toward Harpy. I think I may have been wrong about Spider, although he's still on my list and I won't discount him as a suspect. He's just moving down on the list because I think I didn't give him enough credit as a player. Sorry Spider.

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I don't get why we can't just kill Shadowbaby now, but since the mods seem to be engaged in some sort of heated debate as to whether the SK would turn out guilty by the CF or not, I guess guarding her might be the better option. Even if I personally favor killing her now. :dunno:

I got a good reason: I'm not the SK.

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the mods seem to be engaged in some sort of heated debate as to whether the SK would turn out guilty by the CF or not

Huh? How is this even a question? CF should definitely have the SK show up as being guilty.

I'm kind of leaning away from Spider now and toward Harpy. I think I may have been wrong about Spider, although he's still on my list and I won't discount him as a suspect. He's just moving down on the list because I think I didn't give him enough credit as a player. Sorry Spider.

Why Harpy?

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Huh? How is this even a question? CF should definitely have the SK show up as being guilty.

Don't ask me. Although IIRC, the serial killer has turned up innocent in past games.

Why Harpy?

I don't like the arguments she's been making today and I think she's evil. She keeps pointing toward her initial vote exchange with Gertrude as proof that they're not co-mafia, but I don't believe it at all.

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I don't like the arguments she's been making today and I think she's evil. She keeps pointing toward her initial vote exchange with Gertrude as proof that they're not co-mafia, but I don't believe it at all.

Do you think she would have been willing to kill Lany, in spite of Lany placing her on her 'innocent' list?

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It is day 3.

12 players remain: Crusader, Filter, Halo, JKMan, Kat, Kilgrey, Piper of Chaos, Ser Spider, Shadowbaby, Thiocyanide, Whiskeyjack, a homeless harpy.

7 votes are needed for a conviction or 6 to go to night.

2 votes for Crusader (Shadowbaby, Whiskeyjack)

2 votes for Piper of Chaos (Crusader, Ser Spider)

2 votes for a homeless harpy (Filter, Kat)

1 vote for Halo (Piper of Chaos)

1 vote for Ser Spider (Halo)

1 vote for Thiocyanide (a homeless harpy)

3 players have not voted: JKMan, Kilgrey, Thiocyanide.

22 hours 50 mins left... who would have thought the hardest part of modding was figuring out time?

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Do you think she would have been willing to kill Lany, in spite of Lany placing her on her 'innocent' list?

I don't know. I would have killed one of you, me or Lany simply because we were least likely to get lynched and no one really suspected us. We were going to die in some order or another. But you do raise a good point. Remove vote for now. :unsure:

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It is day 3.

12 players remain: Crusader, Filter, Halo, JKMan, Kat, Kilgrey, Piper of Chaos, Ser Spider, Shadowbaby, Thiocyanide, Whiskeyjack, a homeless harpy.

7 votes are needed for a conviction or 6 to go to night.

2 votes for Crusader (Shadowbaby, Whiskeyjack)

2 votes for Piper of Chaos (Crusader, Ser Spider)

1 vote for Halo (Piper of Chaos)

1 vote for Ser Spider (Halo)

1 vote for Thiocyanide (a homeless harpy)

1 vote for a homeless harpy (Filter)

4 players have not voted: JKMan, Kat, Kilgrey, Thiocyanide.

you have 19 hours.

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Who cares? How is this a point against me? Yeah, the SK is a hard role. I still don't think he should be able to kill every night. 2 kills per night (one from the SK and one from the FM) would be too difficult for the innocents to overcome.

I never said it was a point against you. Regardless of what you might like to think, not everything is an attack against you. It was just a reply to something you said. As I said in the preceding post I replied to things as I read and some of it was from earlier in the game.

Okay, we can both agree that you don't know much about our community. Right? Suffice it to say, you're kind of in over your head on this particular argument.

Let's just say I'm 'selfish as hell' and I strongly believe keeping me alive is in the innocents' best interests. Because I'm the best player in the game, and I'm going to find the evil players. So I should be healed. End of story. :D

I hardly think I'm in over my head and I hardly think the town is screwed without you. Everyone here seems pretty competent. You come across as obnoxiously arrogant if all you are is a random townie who wants to leech the protects every night. It's not in the towns best interest to do that. While you strike me as arrogant, you don't strike me as stupid and I find it very scummy and that you are looking for reasons to explain why you maybe still alive.

Kilgrey, I see you share my opininon about Thio. And Harpy is far from being lynched. So why not moving your vote on a mob that has at least a slight chance?

Because I didn't think he was scum. I wont vote for someone I don't think is guilty just to move the game along. Shadowbaby was there and ready to hammer so it's not like my vote was holding anything up. I was absent from the game awhile and I wanted my opinion out there and I backed it up with a vote.

Kilgrey - Ignored the mob on Gert, mainly because she wasn't playing yet. Defended Daedalus at a point where he was almost certain to be lynched. Fits more as a potential symp than a FM.

Because waiting until he was -1 is a fool proof plan to save him. :rolleyes:

My vote on someone new is a vote on a guy who shares a desk with me in school. I wanted him to participate.

Fair enough.

As to the rest of it, it's just a feeling I get. Like you are posting enough to be seen but not much else.

history lesson: WJ has been playing since game one and is without a doubt the best mafia player on this board.

And?

by game 7 this was very obvious and he was already being killed the first night, every game by the FM. Him asking for the heal is not selfish, it is very reasonable considering the fear he normally generates. WJ (and I for slightly different reasons) started the whole alt thing to avoid being killed just because of who we were and not because of anything in the game.

I don't care if he was born and bred for mafia since the cradle. If he isn't a town power role and is just a vanilla townie begging for a doc protect it's selfish and hurts the town. Not only that it makes him look highly suspicious. If everyone knows he usually dies early, and he lands a bulletproof SK role, he knows he's going to have to come up with a plausible excuse. What better than trying to pass off 'the doc has been protecting me' as the reason. I'm sorry, but I'd rather have our other power roles protected than a vanilla townie no matter how good he is. And if you really feel the need to blindly hang on his words, what's the point of playing the game? He can just do it all for us as we sit back. If he's as good as you say he is, I really don't think he'd be as selfish as to try to land the doc protect every night and leave other roles out there hanging.

I really worry some people are going to get to caught up in their Hero worship and let him take a pass instead of giving his actions the same weight as everyone else. Nailing FMs does NOT eliminate someone from the running of SK.

Why, according to you, only I should bear the consequences? I understand your difficulties - catching up is not nice, but it was over the top. May I remind you - you didn't like the case of Daedalus and he was an FM, like Gert. Does it mean you are an FM too?

Again, it was the way you did it not the fact you were wrong combined with a lot of contentless posts.

Or do you think that there are still two redheads out there?

Hey, not all redheads are evil mister! :(

After my lynch your play will come out, that was the conclusion of my previous post.

..how is you dying going to reflect badly on him? He suspects you, that's not damning even if you do turn up innocent.

AFTER Kilgrey, encouraged by Thio, presented his very biased case of my guilt.

Biased? Because I suspect you? Yes, when you suspect someone and find flaws in their posting you point them out. Last I checked that was playing the game. You seem to want to take every post against you personally.

Let me change my Vote fron night to Piper of Chaos

Why? Care to actually add some content and reason? Any opinion really. I know it sucks to have to play catch up but if I can do it so can you. After reading 40 odd pages in this thread I find it hard to believe you don't have thoughts about something.

One thing that came to my mind: Gert voted for me and she was a FM. Daedalus wanted to incriminate me and he was a FM as well. Think, people.

...that really doesn't mean anything. FMs will cast a bit of suspicion toward their partners to help create distance. And as WJ said, Daeds incrimination of you came late. Neither of them went really hard after you. Not there are other things to take into account.

I saw that Thio was hinting at a role. You are wrong about my motive though. My reason to vote for him was to make him lynchable, so that the killers would not attack him. I knew that he wouldn't be lynched yesterday, it was pretty obvious.

I haven't really gotten a scummy vibe off you, but this sounds a bit like back pedaling to me.

The point is that WJ has been the number 1 target last night. Either the killers targeted him, and failed because of another night action (healer/guard), or they didn't dare to attack him because he was the obvious heal.

...or he's the SK and the last FM kill bounced off him. Or the FMs are gone and he's the only one left as SK.

Do you think she would have been willing to kill Lany, in spite of Lany placing her on her 'innocent' list?

If Lany is one of the better players, yes. It's nice to have someone believe you, however if they are good they are still a threat. With all your crying about being doc protected the FM or SK might not have wanted to bother so went to the next logical person. On the board I come from we call that Operation Lobotomy, take out all the smart players first leaving the town with the lesser players. And as Kat said, you never want to keep people around who are confirmed or thought to be innocent by the town.

I believe Thio to be town, I caught his softclaim as I hinted in my last post. I don't think he would have tried to fake claim so early if he were scum. I'm going to vote Harpy for the reasons I've stated multiple times. Ser Spider has been on my suspect list but for some reason he's coming off as sincere to me today making me feel a bit torn about him.

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Hi everyone. As I see nobody shares my suspicions when it comes to Thio and I don't feel like wasting my vote. If Thio is a guard, my appologies. If he is not...well, it will be seen sooner or later.

Remove my vote

My other suspects are: Ser Spider, Kilgrey, JKMan,and Crusader - the last two for their lack of activity. Kilgrey is very fixated on lynching me just because he thinks I am an easy prey. His arguments are rather lame and show that: I am rather stupid, I take eveything personally, two lynched FMs wanted to lynch me so I must be their weakest pal etc. Fine. I am not going to make him any wiser. I just wonder why such a wonderful and clever guy bothers to make a case on me while there are more worthy players who can possibly be evil, waiting for his attention. Somehow, despite all the posts criticizing WJ, Piper and Spider, he finds it the easiest to attack me. Cowardice? Opportunism?

Kilgrey

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* applauds Spidey *

You are right, dude, looks like you're a promising mafia n00b. Yes, I saw that Thio was hinting at a role. You are wrong about my motive though. My reason to vote for him was to make him lynchable, so that the killers would not attack him. I knew that he wouldn't be lynched yesterday, it was pretty obvious. And I do believe his claim. I don't believe a bad guy would drop such obvious hints. Please don't do this again, when you're roled, Thio. It gets you killed. It does.

My vote on Halo is or was based on his statement that the guard could have blocked the SK. This might be true, but the guard could have blocked the last remaining FM, too. I wondered if Halo slipped here, being a FM who knew that his kill went through and wondered what happened to the SK.

Well, IMO this is the best defense you could possibly come up with. This doesn't mean you couldn't have had it prepared as a FM, but I'm willing to remove my vote for now.

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Now, response to Kilgrey, about WJ:

Look, we all know that WJ is an arrogant bastard (thus stealing custom title from LoB :D). But he is good in what he does. He nailed two FM in the first two days. If the healer is among the more experienced players, he would have been healed from the very beginning. The reason why he mentioned it is the amount of new players around. And he was the obvious heal for the first two nights, since no-one yet claimed the role.

And although I admit the possibility of him being SK, he killed the two FM. SK needs FM to help him win the game.

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And regarding remaining baddies:

I think that we still have a FM and a SK left. The reason for lack of kills may be multiple, but the SK is still alive, according to mods, and since Dead was blocked on night one, one of the kills must be FMish. Since Shabba was blocked on night 2, there is a good chance that she is the remaining FM, or the serial killer. I am not convinced at all by her being voted by Daed-he seemed resignated, and the reason why this is so could be that the remaining FM is really someone who is hardly suspected at all (possibly even WJ). Shabba's input hasn't been what I expected it to be. I pressured her on day 1, but the only defense she came up with was 'I don't get bad vibes from myself'. Her posting has been weird to me, since I saw her play differently, and better, in games 46.5 and 47. Now, the only thing she has are good vibes on few people, her only suspect is Halo, and I she didn't even bother making a case on him. Yet, she is PI to most of you simply because Daed voted her on day 1. She is successfully staying under the radar, seems not eager to catch the remaining baddies, just happy that no-one suspects her.

Shadowbaby

I'm out of here for now. I'll try to do a Halo re-read tonight.

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Kilgrey is very fixated on lynching me just because he thinks I am an easy prey.

I don't know you from jack, I wouldn't know if you were a weak player or a strong one. I'm calling it like I see it. Your lack of content and opportunistic vote on Gert is scummy.

His arguments are rather lame and show that: I am rather stupid, I take eveything personally, two lynched FMs wanted to lynch me so I must be their weakest pal etc.

Never once did I call you stupid or even insinuate it. This is exactly what I mean by you taking it personally. Hell, even the 'taking it personal' comment was just a small part I put at the end of the post but you seem to have glommed onto it. You are again not seeing WHY two FMs casting suspicion on you doesn't mean much in the context of which they did it. You never defended yourself from the post I made about you nor have you changed my opinions of what you did in your responses to anyone else. If they case is so lame why are you getting so defensive and taking it personally?

I just wonder why such a wonderful and clever guy bothers to make a case on me while there are more worthy players who can possibly be evil, waiting for his attention. Somehow, despite all the posts criticizing WJ, Piper and Spider, he finds it the easiest to attack me. Cowardice? Opportunism?

Worthy players like who? The guy you just unvoted? I've criticized WJ because I haven't agreed with some of the things he said. Not agreeing does not make someone scum. I find his crying for a doc protect exceptionally suspicious but one thing does not a scum make. More over anything I find it frightening that so many people seem to want to look the other way from him and that he may slip under the radar as SK. So I bring it up. However I'm not damning him yet because of one thing. Piper, I just haven't found overly scummy. Just because you or others do does not mean I have too. And I've posted plenty on Spider. Given my post lengths, responses to what people say about me and my willingness to not let things go unnoticed I hardly think I'm a coward. The fact is, there is more on my 'who could be scum' list under your name than anyone elses. I posted exactly why and you've chosen to not reply to it. My vote stays.

Kilgrey

Your vote seems pure OMGUS.

And although I admit the possibility of him being SK, he killed the two FM. SK needs FM to help him win the game

Not really. Are they helpful? Sure, but they be just as damning. If FMs target the SK and the kill bounces they have two options. 1) they hit someone who was doc protected 2) they found the bulletproof SK. If they know for a fact the person wasn't doc protected they then can target the SK in thread and try to get them lynched. It's unwise of either side to let the other faction live to long. And if you are a clever townie and can get most of the town behind you and think you are townie town town, then you need the FM less.

Like I said to Harpy, I'm not gunning for WhiskeyJack yet. I just want people to acknowledge the possibility so he doesn't slip by by being the town leader. He maybe cleared from being a FM but that doesn't clear him from being SK. I find his cries for doc protects to be suspicious and nothing will change my mind from that. And I highly doubt anything will change my mind from thinking it's wisest to save him every night even if he is town give there is the possibility of power roles out there. If someone found a breadcrumb from the cop and bypassed them for whiskeyjack, that's messed up. The best player will never be more important individually than the whole of the town.

eta: my spelling sucks even more this late at night

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And regarding remaining baddies:

I think that we still have a FM and a SK left. The reason for lack of kills may be multiple, but the SK is still alive, according to mods, and since Dead was blocked on night one, one of the kills must be FMish. Since Shabba was blocked on night 2, there is a good chance that she is the remaining FM, or the serial killer. I am not convinced at all by her being voted by Daed-he seemed resignated, and the reason why this is so could be that the remaining FM is really someone who is hardly suspected at all (possibly even WJ). Shabba's input hasn't been what I expected it to be. I pressured her on day 1, but the only defense she came up with was 'I don't get bad vibes from myself'. Her posting has been weird to me, since I saw her play differently, and better, in games 46.5 and 47. Now, the only thing she has are good vibes on few people, her only suspect is Halo, and I she didn't even bother making a case on him. Yet, she is PI to most of you simply because Daed voted her on day 1. She is successfully staying under the radar, seems not eager to catch the remaining baddies, just happy that no-one suspects her.

Shadowbaby

I'm out of here for now. I'll try to do a Halo re-read tonight.

I thought the idea was that Thio was going to continue to block Shadowbaby while we searched for the other FM.

I also thought Gertrude was also trying to move people toward voting Shadowbaby (or Lany) on Day 1, which is what made me rule out Shadowbaby as a potential member of Team Lucky Charms. Given how Daedalus was backing up Gertrude in thread, it seems like the approach he would have taken toward his other partner would be similar if they were under heat. Which Shadowbaby was.

In any case, I wouldn't mind voting for her based on the guarding thing, but I think trying to fit her into the mold of potential FM is a mistake.

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Like I said to Harpy, I'm not gunning for WhiskeyJack yet. I just want people to acknowledge the possibility so he doesn't slip by by being the town leader. He maybe cleared from being a FM but that doesn't clear him from being SK. I find his cries for doc protects to be suspicious and nothing will change my mind from that. And I highly doubt anything will change my mind from thinking it's wisest to save him every night even if he is town give there is the possibility of power roles out there. If someone found a breadcrumb from the cop and bypassed them for whiskeyjack, that's messed up. The best player will never be more important individually than the whole of the town.

Ok, since WJ isn't around to defend himself, I'll do it for him since I believe he's innocent, through and through. I've played something like 40 games with this guy, and he honestly is more useful than a lot of roled innocents. I don't see him asking for a heal tonight, and I have no idea if we even have a healer, but in light of his usefulness on day 1-2, and with no officially revealed roles, his request wasn't out of line. Maybe I'm just approaching this from having known him request heals in the past, but it's pretty much a null tell for WJ. It doesn't mean he's evil. It doesn't mean anything. If it were anyone else, or on another forum, it might mean something, but we're talking about a guy who has a mafia messiah complex, and it's probably deserved.

In any case, I doubt my words are going to mean much to you there. I thought he was innocent before he went and lynched some guilty people. I still believe he's innocent, because if he were the SK, he'd have a) killed Thiocyanide already and B) not gone after the FM so quickly. Killing off all the FM that early is stupid. I've seen teams make that mistake in multi-team FM games before, targetting the other team too early, and it doesn't tend to end well once the other team is killed off. So how would it benefit him to lynch all the FM in a row, and then try to be a lone gunman the rest of the time?

<drinks the kool-aid and bleats>

(And as a parenthetical addendum, those of you who think he'd lynch his partners on days 1-2 are on crack. I'm serious. And if he were to start throwing his partners to the wolves, he would have started with Daedalus, as he and Gertrude are friends and he probably would have appreciated the chance to play evil with her.)

Meh. All that aside, I'm going to vote for Harpy again. What are the alternatives? Trying to start a lynch mob on Halo? Joining the "please talk more, newbies" mob? The former appeals to me only slightly more than the latter. Let's cook some turkey. :drool:

Edit: P.S. Kilgrey, I like the way you think, even if you and I are on different sides of the aforementioned WJ issue.

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