House Frey Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 Fair enough, but I would have liked that to come from Bolton. Well, our posts were only 1 minute apart and I don't think Bolton lifted my answer and whipped up that post in 1 minute, so as far as I am concerned, Bolton did answer it. I'm adding to discussion now though aren't I? At least a discussion between you and I. True - and that's a good thing. You haven't been engaged in the conversations until recently, just a spectator. I engaged in conversation with Martell and now I have a better sense of where he stands. I just want to better understand you and your motives. I also read back and saw the vote on you from Manderly. His reason was that you were trying to direct the lynch onto one of the Tully-train. That way you lead the mob the way you want and look like a concerned innocent. It's kind of what Martell was doing that landed him in the hot seat. He was just more obvious about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Wythers Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 he has. you are telling me im looking at weakest part of the case. thats not true. once again, youre misrepresenting the situation like im answering for martell when I'm clearly saying that Im not focused on the weakest part of the case but that i discussed everything. You are saying that you aren't focused on the weakest part, but to me it looks like you are. You continue to bring up the genderslip as a bullshit part of the case. Yes, it would be, but there was more to it than that. Again, this has been shown to be weaker by Martell's own defense, however I do not like when you continue to bring up a weak part of the argument. Yes, we get it, but you aren't sufficiently explaining the rest of it...and why is it, again, that you are working so hard to defend Martell? i dont think hes defending tully. if he's guilty, hes acting like what he thinks an innocent would act like. 6 votes are put on someone for no reason and hes 3 votes from a lynch with potentially 4 or more evils. then he makes a comment that evils are on the mob but not really off. That to me, means hes defending the random lynch as innocents would do and then telling us to look at the lynch for our evils. He is acting as he thinks an innocent would? Was it not pointed out earlier that if he was an innocent he was playing an extremely stupid game? He was defending Tully and then pointed out that we should look at the people who were in the mob as possible targets for today's lynch. I've already said how this is defending Tully. ETA: even more so, if Tully gets lynched like Gertrude was last game and flips innocent he looks good for defending the mob. its taking your WIFOM and using it against you. those are ways he could be guilty and tully innocent. Fair enough I suppose. you are realling getting on my nerves. i never said Martell cannot be guilty because he didnt make the gender slip. i said i dont think he is guilty CUZ of it. get it? two completely different things and once again, youre twisting shit to your needs. Yes I fucking get it and nobody has been saying they think that he is guilty because of it. Here again you are saying that you don't think he is guilty because of the weakest part of the case. Nobody fucking thinks he is guilty because it was the weakest part of the case. That part of the case was a minor part, as was pointed out, and was not given much credence by ANYONE. Why are you still bringing it up? You are strawmanning the case on Martell and it is not necessary. You have somewhat been beating around the bush regarding most of the case, you make some decent points, but then you say "Hey! This gender slip is bullshit." Whatever, I am not sure that Martell is guilty nor that you are. I just have a problem with the way you are going about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Baratheon Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 The discussion really got heated. But I think that I've caught up now. Posting soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Wythers Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 Here is Manderly's vote: It's not a nice point Baratheon. The FM are unlikely to be that desperate at this point in the game. Plus, how can you be a tad more suspicious of everyone involved in the mock-lynch and of Tully at the same time? Basically the issue is I was taking a bit of a middle-road approach. Well, I was a bit suspicious of Tully and also the fact that a mob formed so easily. To say anything else would not have been the truth. Oh that makes me look suspicious? Fuck it, that is what I was thinking. I just did a rather quick reread and noticed a couple things, not as much jumped out at me ass I would have liked..but here it is: Bolton: After rereading, it really does seem that about one third of your posts are defending Martell's gender slip. Again, missing the point that Frey made about what looked like Martell lying about it (Yes, they have subsequently defended this well). Furthermore, I just don't see the point. It seems like every time it was mentioned Bolton would respond with "can we drop the gender slip", "enough with the gender slip", "oh we still think a gender slip is a reason for guilt?". Why continuously defend Martell? Why not let Martell defend themselves, which in they end they were somewhat able to do. There was pressure on Martell, not a lynch mob, in fact there were very few votes cast in Martell's direction. Sometimes asking for an explanation for something, even if it is bullshit (like the gender slip point), is very effective. In this case, it looked like it caught Martell in a lie. dont bother. my point was proven. Again, why are you defending Martell here? So what if they are struggling to defend themselves in the face of pressure? They were not close to a lynch and their inability to sufficiently answer was suspicious. Why would you help if you didn't know whether they were innnocent or not? Even if you suspected they were innocent this is a stupid move. It does not matter whether you made good points or not regarding the case on Martell (again, I don't know why you would), still let Martell respond if they think they need to (and they should). You are taking away opportunity for us to learn more information. The other thing I noticed: House Blackwood 5 House Lannister 5 -> Seems to be back now at least. House Crakehall 4 House Westerling 2 House Stark 2 House Swan 0 Get with the program people! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Westerling Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 I have a hard decision to make... I find a couple of people suspicious but I think I'll wait for a little longer before I vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Wythers Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 I have a hard decision to make... I find a couple of people suspicious but I think I'll wait for a little longer before I vote. Fine vote later...but who are you suspicious of and why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Mirror Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 6 pages in 3 hours. I have a bit of catching up to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Westerling Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 I am suspicious of Frey because he withdrew his vote (Martell). He attacked him and then tried to prove that he is innocent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Wythers Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 I am suspicious of Frey because he withdrew his vote (Martell). He attacked him and then tried to prove that he is innocent. Ok that's a start. So you think that either he is trying to clear his partner (Martell) or himself by looking reasonable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Westerling Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 Maybe they are cooperating... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Baratheon Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 Gosh, West, care to use some sentences which aren't on the level of first-graders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Baratheon Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 I am suspicious of Frey because he withdrew his vote (Martell). He attacked him and then tried to prove that he is innocent. And Bolton did the same IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Wythers Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 Gosh, West, care to use some sentences which aren't on the level of first-graders? English is not everyone's first language. I would like more content from Westerling though...getting it feels like pulling teeth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Baratheon Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 English is not everyone's first language. I would like more content from Westerling though...getting it feels like pulling teeth. You got it wrong. I'm objecting to the simplicity of their language, and not their grammar. They could try to say something and make grammar mistakes. It's ok as long as we understand it. But if that's the best language they can produce, they don't understand a lot of the stuff we're saying. Why apply for a game then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Westerling Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 Don't make me cite Shakespeare. I can't tell anything for sure yet, I can only hope we lynch the right guy (or girl ). For now, my vote goes to Frey as he is most suspicious to me ATM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Mirror Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 I could go Dayne as well for the quick vote, but I'm staying with Baratheon for now. He's been around on and off for much of the game, but has added very little before his post voting for Martell. Mostly one liners and quoting other posts only to add a short line. Seems like he's trying to avoid attention or controversy while appearing to be active and helpful. This struck me as interesting. At the time it was made Baratheon was embroiled in a heated debate and I think it is rather contradictory, like Frey is stretching to find a reason to keep his vote on Bara. I happen to disagree strongly with Frey about the content of Bara's posts. I am not sure why he is trying to push so hard on Bara, but I am finding his behavior to be rather suspicious. I didn't like his 5th vote on Tully either; I really didn't like when he claimed it was a 4th vote (even though he later said it was the 5th); I do want to go check the timing of those votes just to make sure. In the mean time, I am going to put my vote on Frey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Baratheon Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 Okay, the daily update. Stark voted Tully, as a third vote. Martell immediately found it suspicious, and voted Stark. Later on, he explained that two votes is enough pressure on day one. This is totally weird IMO. Six votes was apparently not enough to lure something out of Tully themselves, but Martell was brought up as a main defender. It seemed to me that Martell could have panicked when it came up to six votes on their partner, but a re-read revealed that they meant it from the very beginning. Which could also mean that they panicked, but in that case they are a n00b, b/c we here never lynch for no reason at all:devil:. But, I'd really like Martell to explain why are two votes enough pressure in a game with 17 people? But, it seems, I'm not getting an answer anytime soon. Baratheon comes. They try to make a case on Tully. Why bother doing this, if they actually place their vote on Tyrell? One could interpret this as 'staying in the middle of the road' in a rather subtle way. Bolton, who started the whole mob IMO, and Frey got in a heated discussion with Martell. Baratheon reappeared, just to make a case on Martell when everyone seemed to be keen on a lynch. Frey saw that as opportunistic, pretty much the same as I do. Baratheon immediately started OMGUS talk and overdefending theirselves. But the person I'm concerned about the most is Dayne: -6th vote on Tully. IMO they were probably the one to make it dangerous -3rd vote on Martell. Their OOC reasoning was lame. Lame, I say. It took them 3 hours to place a vote, and it happened just after Baratheon's vote? If they placed a vote after they saw Bara's, then it's as close as it gets to the definition of opportunistic. Backing up a case with a vote is something that is usual, expected, when you believe in your case at least a bit. If not, why bother making it? You can always remove a vote later on. -Overall scummy behaviour. I know, not a real reason, but anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Baratheon Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 I think that at least one FM can be found among the vocal players. And I'm pretty sure that the Cult is staying way out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Dondarrion Posted March 1, 2008 Author Share Posted March 1, 2008 It is day 1. 17 players remain: Arryn, Baratheon, Blackwood, Bolton, Crakehall, Dayne, Frey, Greyjoy, Lannister, Manderly, Martell, Reed, Stark, Swann, Tully, Tyrell, Westerling. 9 votes are needed for a conviction or to go to night. 3 votes for Frey (Martell, Westerling, Blackwood) 3 votes for Dayne (Reed, Bolton, Lannister) 3 votes for Baratheon (Manderly, Tyrell, Frey) 2 votes for Martell (Greyjoy, Dayne) 2 votes for Tully (Crakehall, Stark) 1 vote for Stark (Tully) 3 players have not voted: Arryn, Baratheon, Swann. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Mirror Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 Why not a 5th vote on Tully? Surely that must be suspicious. This vote was made 15 minutes after the 4th vote, and he is very aware that he is the 5th, so it wasn't just a case of cross posting. My vote was only the 4th - a good place to create pressure. I can't control what happens after me. True, I could remove my vote, but I'm still cool with it for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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