Boxeo- The BIG one! 2nd big fight of the year; Pac-man v. Hatton, reactions!

[EHK for Darwin]

Damn. Must have missed a day or two. I usually catch this thread whenever it gets brought back to life? Williams took out Quintana? Shit. Missed that too. That would explain why HBO was talking about him like he was relevant again last week. Pity though. I really liked Quintana. Tough overachiever who noone really gave a chance in that first fight. And Williams' slaptastic punches really don't do much for me. Than again, just saw the clip...bit more than slaptastic this time around.

And Mora winning a title? Fuck, I really have been slacking. Vernon Forrest ain't exactly a joke either. Good for Mora. I thought his career was on the decline after avoiding Taylor and drawing with unheralded Ayala.

Kind of sick of the lack of Amir Khan fights on TV. Hear about the guy nonstop, but do we ever see him? Hardly. If he's not fighting HBO calibur competition yet, there's always ESPN 2. Come on guys. You name him your top prospect but don't show the guy?

Anyway, watched all the fights this weekend. Caught it with a few friends. We all became quick Abraham fans after they told the broken jaw story. Figured that man was just too badass to lose. And he didn't disappoint. Seen a few Berto fights and curious how he'll do against the elite of probably the best division in boxing. Kid has some awesome speed.

Hopefully Calzaghe fights a few serious fights after all of his 'cashing in' money fights. I don't begrudge him knocking off over the hill legends for the big money, but retire with some class against elite competition in their prime. (aka, Pavlik)

[dits]

Manny Pacquiao just totally dominated David Diaz in their bout last night. Manny established his right jab early and was just connecting throughout the fight with jabs, straights, hooksb even threw in an uppercut before KOing his opponent in the 9th. Diaz' face looked like a mess.

He's looking really comfortable at lightweight. His speed and power was just the best I've seen in him in a long while.

[EHK for Darwin]

Eagerly awaiting the replay myself, though all accounts suggest that Manny was the best anyone's seen him in recent memory and just utterly destroyed Diaz. There's now talk of an eventual Manny/Hatton fight which couldn't help but make a shitload of money. He may also top most of the pound for pound ratings over Calzaghe. (short lived reign there)

[lessthanluke]

David Diaz was always the weakest champ in t he lightweight division mind and I thought that he would get beat sooner or later.
About Hatton/Manny fight. Hatton would be to big and would destroy him imo.

[dits]

I was totally not sold on the Pacman-Hatton fight before this fight. I thought Manny wouldn't be able to bring his speed and power to a higher division. This fight illustrated that Manny indeed has brought his power and speed. He looks even better than when he was in Superfeatherwieght.

Diaz didn't win a single round. He was also outpunched around 3 or 4 to 1. Diaz looked like he went through a war. Manny on the other hand looked unscathed.

[EHK for Darwin]

No doubt Dave of the 20 Diaz's in the lighter divisions was the weakest of the bunch. But as Dits notes, Manny still brought his power and speed in spades to that higher weight class. And its quite possible that he's got one more weight jump in him. And if its against a guy like Hatton whose matchup can't help but bring in a shitload of money, I'm sure he's game. Besides, who knows if Hatton has fully recovered from his Floyd knockout. He was wobbled a few times by and couldn't knock out Lazcano, who ain't exactly a world beater. I think he might be vulnerable even if he is the bigger guy.

Yeah Hatton walks around alot heavier than 140 and probably has to cut off a leg to actually make that weight half the time, but its only a 5 pound jump at this point and Manny looked solid at 135. I think its doable. And I'd like to see it.

Fighters moving up multiple weight classes at some point or another tend to get outclassed. But some of them have the talent to keep going through 3-4 (or 4-5) weight classes before prudence says to stop. Floyd. DeLaHoya. I think Manny might be able to do it too.

In either case, I'm also looking forward to the likely Hatton/Malignaggi fight, so Hatton/Manny can wait a bit.


What's Calzaghe's legacy looking like if he doesn't fight a real fight to finish off his career?

[lessthanluke]

I think Calzaghes legacy takes a big hit if he dosen't fight Pavlik. A really big hit. Even if he lost it would still be better than not taking the fight imo.

Oh yeh for sure I would like to see Hatton/Pacquiao and yeh your right its not that big a jump but I would favour Hatton. ETA Well I've just watched the Diaz fight and your right Manny looked good.

I'm not sold on Malignaggi but like you said Hatton wasn't that good last time out either.

ETA I do somewhat agree with Calzaghe when he says Pavlik is not as good as everyone says. I think Arthur Abraham would push Pavlik all the way. I would actually probably pick Abraham.

[lessthanluke]

If you don't know who Arthur Abraham is this is the ending to his fight with Edison Miranda last week.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ddsvrNh3sc"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ddsvrNh3sc[/url]

[EHK for Darwin]

I'd agree on Calzaghe. Too long spent fighting tomato cans in front of the home crowd. Than when he finally tries to make a splash against an elite fighter he takes on a guy who was extremely overrated, a TV fighter, one and now 2 geriatrics, and Kessler. (who noone will say wasn't legit) I understand the payday scenario. Hell, he chucked his promoter of god knows how many years so that he could get the whole cut. (at least that's my suspicion.) But a Pavlik fight is his best chance to solidify his legacy. RJJ ain't gonna cut it. A Pavlik-Calzaghe fight is good for Joe, good for Kelly, good for boxing, and good for the fans. Hell, Kelly'd probably even be willing to fight that shit in Wales. Something aging US legends are unlikely to do.

In either case Cotto-Margarito is shaping up to be the fight of the summer if not the year. Another one I'll have to wait a week for, but I can live with that. Can't wait.

[EHK for Darwin]

[quote]If you don't know who Arthur Abraham is this is the ending to his fight with Edison Miranda last week.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ddsvrNh3sc"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ddsvrNh3sc[/url][/quote]

Heh...great, short fight. That second knockdown was just fricken nuts. Think I've still got that Tivoed, may catch it again.

[lessthanluke]

[quote name='Il Chiarimento' post='1420001' date='Jun 29 2008, 13.05']I'd agree on Calzaghe. Too long spent fighting tomato cans in front of the home crowd. Than when he finally tries to make a splash against an elite fighter he takes on a guy who was extremely overrated, a TV fighter, one and now 2 geriatrics, and Kessler. (who noone will say wasn't legit) I understand the payday scenario. Hell, he chucked his promoter of god knows how many years so that he could get the whole cut. (at least that's my suspicion.) But a Pavlik fight is his best chance to solidify his legacy. RJJ ain't gonna cut it. A Pavlik-Calzaghe fight is good for Joe, good for Kelly, good for boxing, and good for the fans. Hell, Kelly'd probably even be willing to fight that shit in Wales. Something aging US legends are unlikely to do.

In either case Cotto-Margarito is shaping up to be the fight of the summer if not the year. Another one I'll have to wait a week for, but I can live with that. Can't wait.[/quote]

Though I don't buy the whole hes never left Wales argument because most Americans never leave their home towns for fights I agree with most of what you said. His opponents haven't been good enough. We shall see what he does after RJJ.

Cotto-Margartio should be great. I've put some money on a Cotto stoppage in rounds 6,7 or 8 though I reckon Cotto will probably win on points as Margarito is tough as nails.

Yeh the Abraham fight was good. He just kept his guard up the first few rounds and let Miranda punch himslef out a bit. Also I don't think that miranda has a bad chin as some people have made out. I think that anyone who is caught flush by Pavlik or Abraham is going down.

[EHK for Darwin]

[quote]Though I don't buy the whole hes never left Wales argument because most Americans never leave their home towns for fights I agree with most of what you said. His opponents haven't been good enough. We shall see what he does after RJJ.[/quote]

Even US fighters will get crap if you can bring up a stat like '19 of his 20 fights were in his home state of Washington'. That generally means the guy hasn't faced anyone, because unless you're the draw (and you usually don't become 'the draw' unless you've traveled a bit and fought big fights), elite fighters aren't gonna go to your backyard. (unless your backyard happens to be Vegas or NY) So I'd somewhat agree, its not the fact that he hasn't left home per se...its the fact that he never left home tends to indicate that his competition has been fairly light.

Its not a universal rule of course. Mexican fighters in certain divisions can face all the top opponents in it without ever leaving Mexico if they like. (though most of those fights are still made in the US once they reach the upper echelons. And they might need a trip to Puerto Rico as well.) The heavyweight division is pretty much headquartered in Germany and further east these days, so much so that the US fighters will often travel to them. And a US fighter usually doesn't have to leave the US to face the best competition in and around his division. (although if there's a big draw belt holder from elsewhere, those fights may be scheduled away)

Part of its a tad silly of course. There is no US fighter that can fill a 40,000 person stadium here. If a top fighter does pop out of Wales, Manchester, Mexico, or the Phillipines, why the hell not travel to where you'll get the best gate? Its not like TV's an issue, the Brits are more than happy to schedule their fights at 3am to get it on HBO. I'm sure all other fighters are fine with it as well since it guarantees a MUCH larger payday.

But for whatever reason, the best fighters generally don't travel over there. And the biggest crop of talent to be found is in Vegas casinos, California Indian casinos, or various venues in NY/NJ.

On the flip side if a Brit fighter can rake in the cash by filling stadiums against nobodies, why the hell should he risk his record or title abroad against top talent when he's doing fine at home?

[lessthanluke]

Thats the dilemma isn't it. Calzaghe could fight a total bum in his next fight and he would be able to fill 60,000 people into the Millenium Stadium to see it so money wise he dosen't need to leave Wales. Where is the Roy Jones fight being held?

[Young Wolf]

[quote name='LessThanLuke' post='1420063' date='Jun 29 2008, 09.14']Thats the dilemma isn't it. Calzaghe could fight a total bum in his next fight and he would be able to fill 60,000 people into the Millenium Stadium to see it so money wise he dosen't need to leave Wales. Where is the Roy Jones fight being held?[/quote]

Yes but Wales tickets dont equal a big payday. A big payday is PPV audiences. I dont want to speculate on his UK PPV numbers vs what they would be in an international type PPV event...but if his name was carried some weight in the US it would be astronomical. Hell, all he had to do was take a few HBO fights earlier on in his career and put on a great perfomance like a Gatti, and it wouldnt even matter what his record was. People would tune in to see a warrior go to battle.

Not sure where the Jones vs Calzaghe fight is, but I think Calzaghe could do Vegas now. I mean he's got some credibility by beating a big name old man named Hopkins. And people might still pay to see Jones pull off his comeback if only for the chance to see if Jones can go back to pre-kfto days.

Disappointed he's said that after Jones he's retiring.

YW

[EHK for Darwin]

I don't think they've set a place yet. Better gate or not though, I don't think I see RJJ traveling to London or Wales. Although on the flip side of that I'm sure he'd fight in Ethiopia if it meant a substantially bigger cut of the purse. To be negotiated for all that stuff, though the prospective date I've heard is Nov. 15th. I'm sure it'll be PPVed.

Hopkins at least had wins against legitimate, relevant fighters in recent years. RJJ got knocked the fuck out in 2 out of his last 3 'relevant' fights against real competition and lost the 3rd one. His last three fights, all victories, have come against nobody, nobody, and has-been. He hasn't won a real fight since 2003. And hasn't knocked anyone out, real or not, since 2002. Bhop you could make an argument for, but RJJ is a joke.

Btw, have you ever made one of those big 40k stadium filled fights Luke? That would have to seriously kick some ass. What do ticket prices look like for that sort of thing?

[lessthanluke]

Unfortunately no never been to a stadium fight. Last one was Manfredo and I wasn't interested in shelling out for that tbh though my parents went and said it was awesome.
If the Roy Jones fight is cardiff I'll be going. Not sure about ticket prices but probably lowest price of around $100 if I had to guess.

[Mathis]

So who next for Pacquiao? Nate Campbell would be the obvious choice but I for one would love to see him fight Katsidis. That would be a war, though it might be short.

I agree that Hatton/Pacquiao would be awsome to watch. If it been made before Hatton got nailed by Mayweather I would have put Ricky as firm favourite, just because of his size and strength advantage, but after his poor showing against Lazcano compared with Manny's comfort at lightweight I'm not so sure.

I'm so disapointed with Calzaghe. The man has a right to retire whenever the hell he wants but his legacy will take a huge knock. Roy Jones Jr? Why not Pavlik, Taylor, Winky, Abraham or even Chad Dawson at light-heavyweight?

I do have to defend Calzaghe against the recurring accusation that he wasn't prepared to fight out of his comfort zone. His camp had agreed a fight with B-Hop in principle about six years ago but then Hopkins doubled his fee so Calzaghe walked away. A good showing or a win in that fight would have paved the way for other meaningful fights. Shame it never happened back then.

Can't blame Hopkins though. He would be taking a tough fight that he couldn't be sure of winning for not much money, Calzaghe didn't have much of a profile even in the UK back then.

Did anyone watch the Amir Khan fight link I posted at the bottom of the last page? Thoughts? IMO He would get beaten by any top lightweight ATM but with a couple years more training he could be a contender.

[lessthanluke]

[quote name='Mathis' post='1420450' date='Jun 30 2008, 01.14']Did anyone watch the Amir Khan fight link I posted at the bottom of the last page? Thoughts? IMO He would get beaten by any top lightweight ATM but with a couple years more training he could be a contender.[/quote]

Watched the fight on ITV. I agree he would lose to aany top lightweight atm. He needs to calm down and keep learning. Is it just me or do you feel as if he hasn't improved a whole lot in his 18 fights.

[Brandon Stark]

ESPN is reporting that the Calzaghe/Jones Jr. fight is a done deal, to take place at Madison Square Garden.

[Horus Ex Machina]

[quote name='Brandon Stark' post='1433007' date='Jul 9 2008, 08.40']ESPN is reporting that the Calzaghe/Jones Jr. fight is a done deal, to take place at Madison Square Garden.[/quote]
I just was talking to one of the guys at the MMA academy that I train at and he mentioned that Calzaghe might fight Jones, but I hadn't heard about it. Big news because this fight can go a long way towards deciding the best LHW or SMW of our era. I'm highlighting this for sure on my calendar.