General UK Politics Thread

[Lyanna Stark]

Simon Cowell would make a fabulous MP. Can you imagine his commentary? :stunned:

[Hereward]

No, I can only imagine him soaking the place for every penny possible while foisting a nauseous series of ill-thought out populist nonsense on the Great Unwashed. Sort of like Richard Littlejohn with additional smugness.

:stunned:

[Lyanna Stark]

:lol:

Sort of like most politicians then? :P

[Hereward]

Good point, dammit. :tantrum:

[HT Reddy]

I think this is UK Politics rather than anything else:

As the Times and the Grauniad have reported, the ferry service to and from Stornoway has been told that not running sailings on a Sunday (in respect of Lewis's Sabbatarianism) is against EU law.

Speaking as a heathen English liberal-Christian one of whose abiding nightmares is being stuck on Lewis on a Sunday (although admittedly nowadays you could walk to Harris and get a ferry from Tarbert), I'm giving this ten rousing cheers. But... EU religious discrimination law? How on earth is anyone going to make that stick?

The story seems implausible to me. Why on earth would the EU be telling ferry companies what day they have to operate on?

I refuse to believe they make electronics in Denmark. It's all tulips and cuckoo clocks. Everyone knows that. :rolleyes:

Denmark? Surely that's baconland!

[mormont]

The story seems implausible to me. Why on earth would the EU be telling ferry companies what day they have to operate on?

Reality doesn't have to be plausible. ;) To me it seems implausible that anyone could be maintaining a ban on Sunday sailings in the first place in this day and age, but they were until now.

The reason for the EU involvement is twofold: first, the ferry sailings are a lifeline service run by a state-owned monopoly. It's not like telling a souvenir shop they must open on a Sunday. There is no other way to get from Lewis to the mainland, except in a medical emergency by helicopter. And the monopoly (and state ownership and subsidy of the operator) is only allowed because it is the only way to maintain the service.

Second, the reasons for the lack of service are not business or operational, but purely religious. If you live on Lewis and are not a member of the Free Church or the other variants thereof, you're prevented from travelling when you want to solely because of your neighbours' religious views.

So the ban is discriminating against the non-Free Church people on the island, in the provision of an essential service. It was always going to be unsustainable legally.

[HT Reddy]

Ah I didn't realise that it wasn't just a private ferry company. Thanks for clarifying. Doesn't seem like an essential service to me though, I mean, those people there would have all presumably chosen to live on that island, and therefore to cope with its remoteness.

[Hereward]

Let me get this straight. you don't think that is it is essential to have any transport link to Lewis so that they can receive food, because if there wasn't any transport link, they could always leave? How, exactly?

[Lyanna Stark]

Let me get this straight. you don't think that is it is essential to have any transport link to Lewis so that they can receive food, because if there wasn't any transport link, they could always leave? How, exactly?

Swimming? :P

Back to the expenses fiasco, do you good people think the Speaker will have to go? He seems a convenient enough scapegoat and hasn't actually done much to help himself.

[Hereward]

Back to the expenses fiasco, do you good people think the Speaker will have to go? He seems a convenient enough scapegoat and hasn't actually done much to help himself.

He's gone. I hope those thieving bastards don't think this gets them off the meathook.

[mormont]

He's gone. I hope those thieving bastards don't think this gets them off the meathook.

Sadly, whatever Mr Martin's failings as Speaker (and there were many) I think the hue and cry against him has been motivated by exactly that hope from most of those participating.

Ironically, of course, the Speaker proposed expenses reforms last year and was voted down by many if not most of those now wanting to use him as a scapegoat. But that's politics. Nasty business.

[Hereward]

Sadly, whatever Mr Martin's failings as Speaker (and there were many) I think the hue and cry against him has been motivated by exactly that hope from most of those participating.

Partly motivated, yes. Don't forget the accusations of consistent anti-Tory bias and the debacle over Damian Green, though. The Tories have been determined to nail him for a long time and this presents a perfect opportunity. They definitely hope it'll get them off the hook as a useful by-product, though. Stupid bastards.

[Lyanna Stark]

Partly motivated, yes. Don't forget the accusations of consistent anti-Tory bias and the debacle over Damian Green, though. The Tories have been determined to nail him for a long time and this presents a perfect opportunity. They definitely hope it'll get them off the hook as a useful by-product, though. Stupid bastards.

David Cameron made every effort this morning on BBC Breakfast to not sound like that was what he wanted though, as he was going on about how the Speaker should not have any bias etc. etc. and how he could not as a party leader speak out against him.

[Hereward]

Of course. If you're going to knife someone in the back in politics or business, it's always best to get someone else to do it or, failing that, to at least look like you're doing it with the greatest regret and for the good of the country/firm.

[HT Reddy]

Let me get this straight. you don't think that is it is essential to have any transport link to Lewis so that they can receive food, because if there wasn't any transport link, they could always leave? How, exactly?

Woah, nah I just meant, like, they managed before the ferry was introduced right? And they manage now without sunday sailing. Obviously there should be a maintained transport link to the island, but my instinct (which I do try to repress) says that if you want to live on Lewis and also to eat, then you should own a boat. :)

[mormont]

Woah, nah I just meant, like, they managed before the ferry was introduced right? And they manage now without sunday sailing.

At some considerable difficulty, for no defensible reason.

Obviously there should be a maintained transport link to the island, but my instinct (which I do try to repress) says that if you want to live on Lewis and also to eat, then you should own a boat. :)

:o You have looked at a map of where Lewis is in relation to the mainland?

[Lyanna Stark]

Of course. If you're going to knife someone in the back in politics or business, it's always best to get someone else to do it or, failing that, to at least look like you're doing it with the greatest regret and for the good of the country/firm.

Ah I see you have the necessary expertise and experience. :P

On a sidenote, I was surprised to see it mentioned that the Speaker may have had to step down due to class issues, i.e. a lot of people apparently thought less of him for being a sheet metal worker from Glasgow. Can this really have played a part? Most people around here don't seem to have any idea about various politicians' backgrounds, just a vague notions that the Tories are "almost certainly posher". It seems pretty universal that it's sleaze, not class being the main point here, hence my surprise.

Or is it just one of those things that people tend to say/do once they know the victim can't fight back: "We're really booting you out because of X, but now when we get the opportunity to pile on you, you're also a dullard with a really disgusting body odour" sort of thing?

[Hereward]

I don't buy that too much. Certainly some Tories looked down on him for his origins, but that's not where the criticism comes from, it's his partiality and incompetence. Bear in mind that the two most widely respected Speakers of recent times were, IIRC, a dancer and a miner, respectively.

PS Management: it's not just using Powerpoint. :P

[mormont]

On a sidenote, I was surprised to see it mentioned that the Speaker may have had to step down due to class issues, i.e. a lot of people apparently thought less of him for being a sheet metal worker from Glasgow. Can this really have played a part?

You really have to go right back to Michael Martin's election to pull all this apart. In short, it is true that certain MPs have been looking for ways to get rid of him ever since he was elected: and that for some of them this was indeed because they looked down on him because of his background. His accent led one Tory to nickname him 'Gorbals Mick'. (The Gorbals being a very low-class area of Glasgow.) This was supposed to be a joke, and to that type of Tory MP it probably is funny, which shows the problem. So there was always a bit of prejudice against him as Speaker, which is a very traditional role.

At the same time, however, his election was very controversial. It broke with convention, as the Speaker is almost never chosen from the party in power (although they usually remain as Speaker even if their party wins an election). This was seen as politicising the office. And so this mixed things up a little. Some people genuinely felt he was the wrong choice, but his supporters were able to accuse them of prejudice: and conversely those who really were prejudiced had an excuse to hide behind.

And it is the case, as Hereward mentions, that Martin has made a number of blunders as Speaker. He has favoured his own party, no bones about it. His own expenses created a minor scandal previously. He has always shown a worrying enthusiasm for bringing in the police when there's a leak. He has defended MPs' perks too willingly. There was the Damien Green affair. The list is long. He handed people a lot of ammunition.

[Lyanna Stark]

Yes, you both confirmed what I thought too, hence it was really strange that his class was brought up. He seems to have done a lot of things he shouldn't have.

I have to admit I am vaguely amused by the whole thing, as we had an "expenses" scandal in Sweden a couple of years ago, but then it was about an MP buying Pampers diapers and a packet of Toblerone on her Parliament credit card. It was definitely not any £18.000 claimed for a non existing mortgage (that still makes me go really really WTF???!! How can you not know that you paid off your mortgage over a year ago???) I guess Swedes have a lower limit for what is "definitely unacceptable". :P

Hopefully, the outcome will be positive for British democracy with more involvement from people in general and more transparency. Yes, I am forever the idealist dreamer. :P