Daenerys Faithful Servant Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Excellent thread! I love speculating... Here is a completely crazy idea. ACoK concentrates a lot on R'holler and his power and his magic. We are introduced to sorcery using shadows. My theory is based entirely on Dany's vision at the House of the Undead. "From a smoking tower, a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire"..."mother of dragons, slayer of lies". What if this dragon is evil? What if Bran the Builder had it imprisoned under the tower which is the oldest part of Winterfell or the crypts with ancient spells to make sure it didn't escape? What if it is a shadow dragon and not a real dragon, like Stannis' shadow which killed both Renly and Cortnay Penrose? The shadow couldn't pass through the walls of Storm End because of the ancient spells that were woven there. If it were a shadow dragon then it would explain why nobody could see it, just like Stannis' shadow walked through Renly's entire army and nobody saw it but for Catelyn and Brienne. Even though it was a shadow it was capable of killing and was no less dangerous so maybe the "shadow fire" in Dany's vision is from a shadow dragon and just as deadly. A shadow dragon wouldn't need to feed, I think, so that would explain why no livestocks are dead. What if the carnage at Winterfell somehow weakened Bran the Builder's magic and not only breathed back life into it but allowed it to escape? The explanation for the "stone dragon" I thought might be as simple as a stone sarcophagus or statue as used for the Kings of the North in the crypts of Winterfell. If it were a shadow, it would explain why Summer was able to see it and not the humans. It will also explain why Bran dismissed it thinking it perhaps an illusion and nothing to talk about. Feel free to rip my theory to pieces, I know its crazy but its fun :) I like it. After reading the OP and looking back for the reference in the books/comparing prophecies the theories of a Winterfell dragon seem to add up. The thing was probably suppose to show up again in ADWD, but obviously the battle between the Ice and Shadow Dragon and Dany's three has been put off until the TWOW. Somewhere I read that they call the constellation that points at the North Star, the Ice Dragon. That is mentioned In the The Sworn Sword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Harren Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 I picked up on that too but then forgot about it. WIldfire maybe in the shape of a dragon??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZacharyB Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Excellent thread! I love speculating... Here is a completely crazy idea. ACoK concentrates a lot on R'holler and his power and his magic. We are introduced to sorcery using shadows. My theory is based entirely on Dany's vision at the House of the Undead. "From a smoking tower, a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire"..."mother of dragons, slayer of lies". What if this dragon is evil? What if Bran the Builder had it imprisoned under the tower which is the oldest part of Winterfell or the crypts with ancient spells to make sure it didn't escape? What if it is a shadow dragon and not a real dragon, like Stannis' shadow which killed both Renly and Cortnay Penrose? The shadow couldn't pass through the walls of Storm End because of the ancient spells that were woven there. If it were a shadow dragon then it would explain why nobody could see it, just like Stannis' shadow walked through Renly's entire army and nobody saw it but for Catelyn and Brienne. Even though it was a shadow it was capable of killing and was no less dangerous so maybe the "shadow fire" in Dany's vision is from a shadow dragon and just as deadly. A shadow dragon wouldn't need to feed, I think, so that would explain why no livestocks are dead. What if the carnage at Winterfell somehow weakened Bran the Builder's magic and not only breathed back life into it but allowed it to escape? The explanation for the "stone dragon" I thought might be as simple as a stone sarcophagus or statue as used for the Kings of the North in the crypts of Winterfell. If it were a shadow, it would explain why Summer was able to see it and not the humans. It will also explain why Bran dismissed it thinking it perhaps an illusion and nothing to talk about. Feel free to rip my theory to pieces, I know its crazy but its fun :) I love it as well. We know Brandon the Builder put magic spells on the other things he built (The Wall, Storm's End), but there does not seem to be any that we know of on Winterfell. Perhaps keeping the dragon inside was that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggydog Stark Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Thanks guys :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegon I Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 One thing i don't think was mentioned is that we know Bran the builder built the wall and winterfell.... We know that he used magic to create the wall and also protect it.... Who's to say there is not powerful magic protecting winterfell as well in the form of a dragon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reeahlia Sand Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 :agree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinebreaker Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Dunno if this has been mentioned, I've only read 11 or 12 pages of the thread...During the river of Dreams with Tyrion amongst the other strangeness. Tyrion sees something flapping by with huge leathery wings... He also, doesn't really give it a second thought. Weird really, given his interest in such things...Could be related, or maybe not...Interesting though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reeahlia Sand Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 maybe its an ice dragon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegon I Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 More likely it was Drogon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hell_Awaits Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Chances are it's a vision of a future event, possibly when Dany takes her dragons to battle like Aegon I did. It's really unlikely to have a real dragon going around the north and having no mention whatsoever n or any hint of it in the following books when there is talk ( by-the-way kind of talk and quickly dismissed as nonsense)all over westeros about the dragons that have hatched in Essos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap Ou Pas Cap Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 This should be a pinned topic. Because it is that awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pomp & Happenstance Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 As far as Tyrion hearing "leathern wings flapping overhead" It couldve been Drogon since he had already escaped..As for a dragon beneath Winterfell... I'll admit I hated the idea at first.... but then I remembered, didn't someone tell John or Sam that the horn of jorum was fake because "they blew it and nothing happened..." well... if the timeline matches it could've alined with the waking winged serpent dream... But then again I'm overdue for a re-read so my memory is fuzzy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
park6491 Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Maybe Bloodraven dumped an egg on his way to the wall?I also thought a dragon, very old, could be underneath the Wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Well, it's obvious there's no natural explanation for them. That's how we know that Iceland is riddled with subterranean dragons, after all.I'm surprised people haven't made as much of the disturbing implications of this quote, while we're at it:Summer was savaging Hali, pulling glistening blue snakes from her belly. Her eyes were wide and staring. Bran could not tell whether she was alive or dead.Some wildlings have infestations of blue snakes in their bellies. Bran observes this directly, so there's no doubt about it. How did they get there and what were they doing? Since it was unclear that Hali was dead or alive when the snakes were removed, perhaps she was a form of wight...possibly created by a different form of magic, like that of the blue-lipped warlocks of Qarth. The implanted snakes could be the means by which the subjects were controlled. Maybe this is the significance of the warlocks blue lips....the blue snakes will only obey the commands of words spoken by blue lips. Now, this does raise other questions about what objecive the warlocks might be pursuing with their wildling minions, how they gained contact with a blockaded region so far from their own land, why they would care about Westeros one way or the other, and why we have no mention of them being seen anywhere in the north, why the other characters present at Hali's disemboweling don't notice, and why Bran himself doesn't even make a big deal about it...but there's no getting around those blue snakes because Bran came right out and told us about them!When I read that, I thought that she was disemboweling Hali, never even thought that there was some significance to the "blue snakes".Now I will have to re read that.Oh, man. I believe that we have discovered a new variant on Poe's Law. :shocked: :lmao:I have nothing new to add except I am enjoying this thread for its funny factor.I think it's a dragon too, could of been Drogon on recon or one out from under the tower. At the beginning of AGOT Bran tells us how that tower has stood forever despite fire and battle and winter etc etc he also tells you how nobody uses it or goes near it except for him, so there was no point in it being lit by anyone. Something brought it down... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivy Snow Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Maybe that's why " There should always be a Stark in Winterfell"... If there would be no Stark in that place something might wake up? a dragon?...Bran and Rickon already escaped from Winterfell when that happened. So there were no Stark left in the place anymore. There was also a post here somewhere saying that, it could be the dragon under Winterfell making the walls warm? ( something to that extent)Also, someone posted that it was too cold in the castle when the Boltons already took over. Maybe it's because the one keeping the castle warm ( dragon underneath the castle) has already left. (I'm sorry if I can't express my thoughts that well.lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 It might not be a literal "ice dragon." If it's a vision in the D&E sense, I put forth that the "ice dragon" out of Winterfell is probably ... Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 It might not be a literal "ice dragon." If it's a vision in the D&E sense, I put forth that the "ice dragon" out of Winterfell is probably ... Jon.Ooooh Targstark. Never thought of it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K1NGSLAYER Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 It might not be a literal "ice dragon." If it's a vision in the D&E sense, I put forth that the "ice dragon" out of Winterfell is probably ... Jon.I think you may be right about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyssa Evenfall Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 It might not be a literal "ice dragon." If it's a vision in the D&E sense, I put forth that the "ice dragon" out of Winterfell is probably ... Jon.I feel like Martin likes to do metaphorical things such as that, so it would make sense. Though I do like the idea of there being another dragon around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I feel like Martin likes to do metaphorical things such as that, so it would make sense. Though I do like the idea of there being another dragon around.I suggest this because in the D&E stories, if someone sees a "dragon hatching" somewhere (e.g. a dragon hatching at Whitewalls), it ends up being in literal reference to a Targaryen, even if the vision showed a literal dragon. So if Bran or whoever sees a massive "ice dragon" hatching or coming from Winterfell, in the D&E way of interpreting things, it refers to a Targaryen and that would in all likelihood be Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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