NBA

[Rhom]

I'm beginning to think that the Cavs are built to beat the Celtics and have a lot of match-up problems with a team like Orlando.

As to LeBron, I agree he can't do it alone and he doesn't have much help... and then I remember that there are only 30 teams in the NBA and 15 players per team; these are the 400ish best players in the entire world there's not a single "scrub" out there. His coaches need to design plays with other players in mind. Wally was brought in to knock down threes... get him out of his warm ups and let him try! Its frustrating to watch a team with a truly great player just stand around and watch. The Lakers are sometimes guilty of this as well.

The ratings will be down if its Orlando v. Denver, but the intensity should be sky high.

[Minaku]

I'm trying to think of what the Cavs can do better, other than the obvious. Stan van Gundy calls plenty of time-outs to keep his team in line. When Mike Brown sees his team start to falter, why won't he call a time-out to keep them on task? Guard the perimeter. Don't let shooters like Alston run free.

Last night, I did see some good things. The Cavs contained Lewis and kept Turk's points down. They kept Dwight mostly quiet except for monster crowd-pleasing plays. They dribble penetrated, scored in the paint a lot more, and except for a stretch of really, really bad 3 attempts kept their jumpers modest. I AM seeing change in the Cavs. It is not enough.

Pietrus and Alston were freakin' HUGE last night, stepping up to fill the space where Turkoglu and Lewis should have been. Defense wasn't spectacular on the Magic side last night but the chain 3s made up for it. Those were beautiful.

[ZANNI_1276]

Rhom in a sense you are correct. Many of the pick ups in the offseason and personnel moves they made were specifically for matching up with the celtics personnel and style of play. Correct as well as you need more production from your roster and though James is the best player on the planet they reverted back to watching him too often this series rather than actually running offensive sets where the team that won 66 games turned into the team from last year casually contributing. As far as matching up with Orlando I really don't think there is team that matches up with them well per say due to thier length and specific skills of the guys with length, Lakers perhaps, but the wild card of which Lamar Odom would show up is the tipping point.

With that being said magic played excellent but really Van Gundy has out coached Brown, particularly yesterday. They came out of time outs with better adjustements, in example the Lewis 3 was purely based on what the cavs were doing all series long and he knew what defense they were going to match up in. I think Mike Brown is good coach but continuing the strategy of matching James on Alston and well, not guarding him and leaving him alone has backfired all series long, no adjustments on that game plan, meanwhile in crunch time Lewis has been a killer (whom James should have been gaurding/switching off from Hedo start to finish). Not using Joe Smith on the perimeter on Lewis is also something I find questionable on Brown's part, he can defend on the perimeter, more so than Andy can but maybe it is something we will see Thursday - who knows.

Brown finally went small last night and they played faster and matched up better with the Magic until Andy started playing like a god damn idiot. He has played like such a whinning f^cker this series - i almost chucked my beer at the TV 4 different times because of his constant chirpping to the refs and not fouling Howard in OT, I mean at least make him earn the points at the line rather than giving up uncontested dunks, if you foul out, foul out but his play has really been frustrating to watch. James turnovers down the stretch were a combination of poor judgement and guys not being where they were supposed too. Again some really head scratching type of possesions down the stretch just dribbling the ball around the perimeter rather than ball movement. James didn't play his best game though he played stallwart once again all things considered.

BTW - ST - what about James play is going to give the pundits a second to pause about? Taking personal likes and dislikes out of it just from purely a basketball fan standpoint I think he not only has put on a great show, some of the likes we have not seen as fans but has even proved to his detractors where he stands in the NBA food chain.

To a certain degree all these games were winable for the Cavs but the bottom line is they didn't get it done and the magic have - props to the magic, though i am so disapointed. Down 3-1 and the way they are playing it looks like this may be the end of the road for the Cavs but stranger things have happened in the association under the scheming david stern and I still am holding out hope - they do have the wild card in James and yes - I know odds are against them but if they can get this to a game 7 all bets would be off. Tomorow we will see what kind of stuff this cavs team is really made up of. As the cavs have learned - it is why you play them folks, you have to win them and not just show up.

[Minaku]

Brown finally went small last night and they played faster and matched up better with the Magic until Andy started playing like a god damn idiot. He has played like such a whinning f^cker this series - i almost chucked my beer at the TV 4 different times because of his constant chirpping to the refs and not fouling Howard in OT, I mean at least make him earn the points at the line rather than giving up uncontested dunks, if you foul out, foul out but his play has really been frustrating to watch. James turnovers down the stretch were a combination of poor judgement and guys not being where they were supposed too. Again some really head scratching type of possesions down the stretch just dribbling the ball around the perimeter rather than ball movement. James didn't play his best game though he played stallwart once again all things considered.

I agree, Varejao is pissing me off with the over the top flailing and flopping, though he made an excellent play at the end.

Speaking of going small, I cackled when Delonte West dunked on that fast break. He's tiny as hell and still managed to get up there. Stan van Gundy's reaction shot was great. Next game, Rafer Alston should dunk.

[Jaime L]

With that being said magic played excellent but really Van Gundy has out coached Brown, particularly yesterday.

That's a bad sign for Brown as this postseason Van Gundy has really seemed to justify Shaq's nickname for him: "Panic Master". But yeah, I agree. I mean there has been seemingly no adjustment to handle the Magic's pick and roll. They continue to double Howard when it's the three pointers that has been killing them all series long and I'm not sure I understand what offensive sets the Cavs are running in crunch time..but I know there's no cohesion and even worse, no movement. Just a disastrous series for the NBA Coach of the Year.

The thing is, the Magic can't stop James when he drives. If I were Brown, come the fourth quarter, I'd be like Denzel Washington in Remember the Titans screaming "You blitz ALL night!" Lebron should be driving on all key possessions. If this means he needs to rest a little bit on the defensive end, do it. But everytime he settles for a fall away 20 footer with under 5 minutes to go or lets Mo Wililams try to create...their chances of winning go down. Attack the rim. If Howard can defend it...the Magic deserve to win the series. But I don't believe James can be stopped when he's determined. And I think more likely, Howard's going to foul out with 5 minutes left. Even if they double or more likely a triple team, a drive and kick will create the kind of shots for Williams, Zyd, West that they haven't been creating for themselves. They have the ultimate weapon of mass destruction...and they're running out of time to use it. Game 5. Now or never.

[ZANNI_1276]

But yeah, I agree. I mean there has been seemingly no adjustment to handle the Magic's pick and roll. They continue to double Howard when it's the three pointers that has been killing them all series long and I'm not sure I understand what offensive sets the Cavs are running in crunch time..but I know there's no cohesion and even worse, no movement. Just a disastrous series for the NBA Coach of the Year.

True to a point. First that pick and roll the Magic use has been effective against everybody not just CLE, though it kills the cavs though because Z is so slow footed he can't switch and hedo is so tall he can look over the switch. Quite effective.

As far as sets the cavs are running in crunch time, well it doesn't look like they are at all. Even if the set was get the ball to James at the top of the key or on the wing would be some sort of resemblance of a set but even that is disjointed looking. Brown is getting out coached, between the decision to match (or rather not match :rolleyes:) James on alston has proven to be disastrous. They should be letting howard get all the looks he can on the defensive end in order to limit the perimeter shooting, when they have done it - it's worked. Not adjusting to the Lewis/Anderson match-up by spelling joe smith on Lewis and switching andy over to dwight and not using James on the defensive end properly are all poor decisions that should have been adjusted by the CLE staff. BTW - this whole master of panic thing, i even said it up thread that it was garbage. Van Gundy is good coach, he might be a little too animated for pro style and his rah-rah style grates on pros but the guy is a great tactician, certainly that can't be denied. Not taking away anything the magic have done, they have handled thier business but this series can easily be: a. done with a magic sweep. b. locked up at 2 or c. Cavs up 3-1, these games have been that close so I can't just say "well the magic have already earned or deserved it". Still have to close it out.

The thing is, the Magic can't stop James when he drives. If I were Brown, come the fourth quarter, I'd be like Denzel Washington in Remember the Titans screaming "You blitz ALL night!" Lebron should be driving on all key possessions. If this means he needs to rest a little bit on the defensive end, do it. But everytime he settles for a fall away 20 footer with under 5 minutes to go or lets Mo Wililams try to create...their chances of winning go down. Attack the rim. If Howard can defend it...the Magic deserve to win the series. But I don't believe James can be stopped when he's determined. And I think more likely, Howard's going to foul out with 5 minutes left. Even if they double or more likely a triple team, a drive and kick will create the kind of shots for Williams, Zyd, West that they haven't been creating for themselves. They have the ultimate weapon of mass destruction...and they're running out of time to use it. Game 5. Now or never.

Pretty much agree entirely, by getting to the basket it creates for everyone else, put points on the board, and goes after Howard - hell even getting James the ball quickly in transition on the post could be effective too. We will see if the cavs go quietly into the night or if they are ready for a street fight. I just don't think they are not going to go quietly and yes, I am aware the odds are slim I still think they have a shot, the margins of these games haven't lead me to believe the magic are in fact superior to the point it is done. Bottom line is it is a must win for both teams on thurdsay.

Maybe it is just the homer in me but I think we still have plenty of basketball to play in this series - and i just got my tickets for tomorow so looking forward to a great game.

[aeu]

Actually, I thought it was much more satisfying to watch him commit several horrific turnovers in OT, thus losing his team the game. Maybe this will give the sycophants in the media a second of pause. Seriously, I had no problem with LeBron before ESPN became his MySpace page. Watching him fail gives me almost physical pleasure.

Is that really Lebron's fault though? Sure, he is a bit full of himself (that whole "crab-dribble" episode last year was ridiculous), but I can't really blame him. They have been hyping this guy like no other since he was a little kid, to the point that it is almost impossible for anyone to live up to all that hype. And he comes pretty damn close...

All things considered, he turned out to be an OK guy. Factor in growing up with all those expectations, accolades, worship, etc., he turned out great. I'm as big a playa hata as anyone, but I can't hate Lebron. At least not yet. :P

I really wish the clowns in the media would dial down the worship though. Even the normally blunt "Inside the NBA" crew seemed afraid to say something bad about him last night. And they are the best of the bunch by a mile. I cannot imagine how it will be when Lebron wins a couple of championships.

The thing is, the Magic can't stop James when he drives. If I were Brown, come the fourth quarter, I'd be like Denzel Washington in Remember the Titans screaming "You blitz ALL night!" Lebron should be driving on all key possessions. If this means he needs to rest a little bit on the defensive end, do it. But everytime he settles for a fall away 20 footer with under 5 minutes to go or lets Mo Wililams try to create...their chances of winning go down. Attack the rim. If Howard can defend it...the Magic deserve to win the series. But I don't believe James can be stopped when he's determined. And I think more likely, Howard's going to foul out with 5 minutes left. Even if they double or more likely a triple team, a drive and kick will create the kind of shots for Williams, Zyd, West that they haven't been creating for themselves. They have the ultimate weapon of mass destruction...and they're running out of time to use it. Game 5. Now or never.

He should attack, but I don't know if he has the energy to do it effectively. He really seems spent at the end of games. Even if he gets his points, Pietrus is making him work really hard. In the final minutes and overtime it seemed like he just cannot do it. You can see he is looking for an opening, dribbling, dribbling (with the rest of the team standing around and watching, of course) until it's too late. Most of his drives at the end of this last game turned out bad for the Cavs or he got bailed out by the refs.

[Jaime L]

Not taking away anything the magic have done, they have handled thier business but this series can easily be: a. done with a magic sweep. b. locked up at 2 or c. Cavs up 3-1, these games have been that close so I can't just say "well the magic have already earned or deserved it". Still have to close it out.

Yeah, have a feeling Lebron's going to be like a B-Movie horror villain for the Magic these last few games. Imagine they will have to drive the stake through his heart multiple times, but we'll see.

You can see he is looking for an opening, dribbling, dribbling (with the rest of the team standing around and watching, of course) until it's too late. Most of his drives at the end of this last game turned out bad for the Cavs or he got bailed out by the refs.

Think that just reflected the strange hesitance he developed late in game 4. Like he needed the perfect opportunity or was just so worn down it made him indecisive or leery of putting himself through another exhausting drive to the hoop. or maybe the prospect of dealing with the defensive player of the year deterred him. Looked like a RB dancing before he got to the hole, when if he just makes one quick cut, he'll be there. Pietrus has done a great job on him but there's no way he can stay in front of James when he's determined. Pietrus' whole defense is set up knowing this to be true...but doing what he can to funnel James into Howard. To which I say, perfect. I think James is too quick, too snake like in the way he slithers between defenders to be stopped consistently without resorting to fouls. To me it's about killer instinct. Keep doing the one thing you know gives the other team fits, and with Lebron it has always been his attacking the basket. He's not Jordan or Kobe. He's not going to beat you with fade away J's. Infact whenever the Cavs played the Wizards, I used to let out a sigh of relief whenever Lebron would take a jumpshot or a 3. Even when he made it. Felt like a possession where we had least had a chance to stop him. Lebron's become a better jumpshooter, but I'd bet Orlando fans still feel much more confident whenever he settles for a perimeter J.

If I were Brown, I'd also consider giving him more rest in the second and third quarters. I think taking him out of the game forces the other guys to not just stand around...so I don't think the drop off will be as bad as it first appears. Most important thing has to be keeping him fresh for the final 5 minutes.

[SquireThomas]

BTW - ST - what about James play is going to give the pundits a second to pause about? Taking personal likes and dislikes out of it just from purely a basketball fan standpoint I think he not only has put on a great show, some of the likes we have not seen as fans but has even proved to his detractors where he stands in the NBA food chain.

Maybe that he's going to lose? After the first two playoff sweeps, the hype just went out of control. Various ESPN commentators were throwing around comparisons to Jordan, for god's sake. and the man hasn't even won a ring!. If any other team leader had faded away so badly in crunch time so many times, the media would be trashing him non-stop but no, of course, LeBron can do no wrong. Don't even get me started on the foul calls he gets: they make Kobe's look like sound officiating by comparison. That 3-point-shooting foul? Cleanest block I've ever seen, and somehow it's still called against Howard.

I'll agree with you on one thing, it will show his detractors where he stands in the NBA: not a champion. Not elite. Not yet.

Not taking away anything the magic have done, they have handled thier business but this series can easily be: a. done with a magic sweep. b. locked up at 2 or c. Cavs up 3-1, these games have been that close so I can't just say "well the magic have already earned or deserved it". Still have to close it out.

Bah, you're just trying to cover for yourself :P. Remember this up-thread?

But the Cavs are rested and man, these guys are locked in and have that look, more so than a team has been that I have seen in a really, really long time. Everyone's big beef has been they haven't played anybody yet in the playoffs. Well again, nice part about the number 1 seed huhh? and two, let's be honest they haven't played in a single competitive game yet, ATL did have a close half and that is it, i think they set an NBA mark for point margins w/victories in 8 straight games in the playoffs. They seem pretty ready to me and have been tested all year long.

To be fair, you also said you would only reluctantly call a winner (although that winner was still Cavs in 5 o.O), but it's sort of a microcosm of all the things I had to read about the Cavs over the course of the season. Sorry guys, I guess you were just ready enough to scrub out in the conference finals...just like last year.

[ZANNI_1276]

Maybe that he's going to lose? After the first two playoff sweeps, the hype just went out of control. Various ESPN commentators were throwing around comparisons to Jordan, for god's sake. and the man hasn't even won a ring!. If any other team leader had faded away so badly in crunch time so many times, the media would be trashing him non-stop but no, of course, LeBron can do no wrong. Don't even get me started on the foul calls he gets: they make Kobe's look like sound officiating by comparison. That 3-point-shooting foul? Cleanest block I've ever seen, and somehow it's still called against Howard.

I'll agree with you on one thing, it will show his detractors where he stands in the NBA: not a champion. Not elite. Not yet.

So people compare him to Jordan? I realize for some it is sacrilege to do so. I for one am not one those guys who compares the two for other reasons but whatever. You are right though no rings yet, but look - dude is only 24, if we were having this conversation when he is in the twilight of his career I would say you are dead right on. As far as the media blitz, I am not a fan personally and agree it is an overload but we live in a celebrity obsessed culture. Guy is pretty likable, charismatic, keeps his nose clean, no drugs, no sexual assault allegations, he kisses his mother after every game and on top of that is the best ball player on the planet. So if you were running the hype machine he is the guy you are going to hitch your wagon too. Guy came into the league with huge expectations and it looks like he is the real deal.

All I was saying that as a fan you have to give the guy props but sounds like you are a fan that has an ax to grind. Cool with me, you don't think he is an elite player, but what is your criteria, you just judge it solely on rings? In some respects I agree with the logic but it can get pretty cloudy pretty quick.

BTW - Howard doesn't get the calls because every opportunity he can, he shows up the refs. Big no-no with NBA refs, these guys have egos as large as the players do.

Bah, you're just trying to cover for yourself :P. Remember this up-thread?

To be fair, you also said you would only reluctantly call a winner (although that winner was still Cavs in 5 o.O), but it's sort of a microcosm of all the things I had to read about the Cavs over the course of the season. Sorry guys, I guess you were just ready enough to scrub out in the conference finals...just like last year.

Yeah - I said it. Not covering myself either. Lotta people were wrong but it sounds like you made out like a bandit in vegas on it though. But - still have some basketball to play in this series, this mornings front page didn't read "Orlando Advances to the Finals" either. So let's see how it all shakes out.

You don't like him and nothing wrong with it, i hated Jordan when he played but I respected the hell out of him from a basketball fan standpoint - that's all I was saying.

cheers bro :cheers:

[Arbor Gold]

Wow, great game up until the fourth quarter...tied after Q1, tied at the half, tied after Q3, then Lakers go on a nice run. Thanks for playing, Odom! That's a crazy back brace he's rocking after the hard fall against Houston, and he got the job done. Nice to see the inside finally step up, with Kobe 6/13 and still get the win. The team is obviously better when Kobe has fewer chances. I'm still not sold on Bynum, but he played a great physical game tonight.

Happy to be up 3-2, but still nervous for game 6 in Denver.

And now Karl is whining about the officiating. Valid?

[Relic]

Denver will probably win at home, but wont pull out a game 7 win in LA.

[SquireThomas]

So people compare him to Jordan? I realize for some it is sacrilege to do so. I for one am not one those guys who compares the two for other reasons but whatever. You are right though no rings yet, but look - dude is only 24, if we were having this conversation when he is in the twilight of his career I would say you are dead right on. As far as the media blitz, I am not a fan personally and agree it is an overload but we live in a celebrity obsessed culture. Guy is pretty likable, charismatic, keeps his nose clean, no drugs, no sexual assault allegations, he kisses his mother after every game and on top of that is the best ball player on the planet. So if you were running the hype machine he is the guy you are going to hitch your wagon too. Guy came into the league with huge expectations and it looks like he is the real deal.

All I was saying that as a fan you have to give the guy props but sounds like you are a fan that has an ax to grind. Cool with me, you don't think he is an elite player, but what is your criteria, you just judge it solely on rings? In some respects I agree with the logic but it can get pretty cloudy pretty quick.

To some degree, yeah. Being a champion is more than just physical talent: it also takes will, and I'm not convinced LeBron has that yet. To be discussed anywhere among the greats, I'd say you definently got to have at least one championship, or all you really have is numbers.

Honestly, I had nothing against him until a few weeks ago. That 8-0 playoffs run set off such an orgy of rhapsodizing that my head nearly exploded. I'm just glad to see ESPN & friends come down to earth a little. Also, I do think he's an elite player: it's just even elite players make mistakes. Kobe has a terrible habit of getting greedy and overshooting, thereby making the Lakers lose on more than one occasion. It's a well documented fact that they win more when he shoots less. Key word there is "well documented": people actually write about Kobe's flaws, while LBJ seems to get a free pass on everything. Good as he his, he still has flaws in his game, and I wish writers would actually discuss them rather than rambling on about how watching him play is a religious experience.

Come to think of it, I think it's ESPN I have an axe go grind with :thumbsup:

[Jaime L]

Cavs are following my strategy to a T. Lebron, who's been running isolations all 4th quarter, explodes past Pietrus and causes Howard to foul out. Cavs up by 9.

It's cool that Mike Brown reads the board. I wonder what his screen name is.

[Relic]

I HATE the Cavs offense in the 4th quarter. And LeBron looks tired. Which makes this 4th quarter schooling all the more impressive. He's gassed...and carrying the team. Ridiculous.

[Jaime L]

I HATE the Cavs offense in the 4th quarter. And LeBron looks tired. Which makes this 4th quarter schooling all the more impressive. He's gassed...and carrying the team. Ridiculous.

It ain't always pretty but it works. What was the stat? Lebron scored or assisted on 32 straight Cavs points in the fourth quarter. That's what he can do for you when determined. And the Magic can't stop it. 37-14-12 speaks for itself. The entire offense ran through him, like Chris Paul, and they pulled away by 10. He got help for the first time really all series, but largely because he set up his teammates so well.

Not sure he's going to have the energy to do that again in game 6. Either Gibson or Williams will have to come up huge in the fourth quarter then.

[Jaime L]

Also goes to show you have weak the rest of the Cavs have been this series.

Those guys as a group are really only above average in one area: team defense. And now that they're going against a team they can't shutdown they've been especially unhelpful. As a team, they've been scoring about the same they have throughout the playoffs and all season long. It's just their opponent is now scoring in the 100s instead of the 80s and they're making one of the best defensive teams in the league look absolutely foolish.

I mean if you look at their roster, they don't have a true point guard or a true post presence and thus do not have a way to get easy baskets. The only way they get point guard play or post-up scoring is if Lebron provides it for them. That's why come crunch time every possession went through him, because it's the highest percentage play they got, either when he shoots or when he sets someone else up. A better team, one with a more diverse set of scorers and a discernible offensive set, wouldn't need to use playground ball as their go-to play...but they don't got that. And in fairness, the Lakers who do have all that, still do the same thing.

[Young Wolf]

Woot!

[Relic]

Woot!

i hate the lakers. so much.

[lumer]

noooooo!

Beat LA! Beat LA! Beat LA!

go Orlando!