Brandon Sanderson

[The Evil Hat]

I think that of the two Mormon novelists I've read, he's currently on a slightly lower level than Stephanie Meyer. But he could improve.

...really?

There's also "howling with rutting fury". How do you do that? Yell loud enough to gouge the earth?

Knowing the Sranc, I took this to mean another definition of rutting.

[fionwe1987]

I'm guessing he's going for a different meaning of the word rutting here, such as animals in rut. That would seem in keeping with his propensity for weird sexual imagery.

So their "rutting fury" is for running and howling as well as rutting? I'm getting Goodkind vibes here.

[Shryke]

So their "rutting fury" is for running and howling as well as rutting? I'm getting Goodkind vibes here.

It's the Scranc, of course it's sexual.

[Old Nan]

...really?

Don't get me wrong, I'm disturbed by Twilight for all the usual reasons, and if some of her scenes were somewhat entertaining they were balanced out by a lot of crap, plot-wise. But I think that she's better at characterization than Sanderson, and more importantly her writing flows better. He has a real problem making any one sentence meaningful, which leads to a lot of inelegant repetitiveness.

[Liadin]

Having once read a few pages of a Twilight book out of morbid curiosity, I'm fairly confident that Sanderson is a far better writer than Meyers.

Not that that's saying a whole lot when Meyers doesn't even realize that books require conflict.

[russjass]

Having once read a few pages of a Twilight book out of morbid curiosity, I'm fairly confident that Sanderson is a far better writer than Meyers.Not that that's saying a whole lot when Meyers doesn't even realize that books require conflict.

You mean teenage angst isnt enough for you?

[shadow catlady]

You mean teenage angst isnt enough for you?

It's conflict. And it defines more adults & adult actions than we like to admit. (opinion, only.)

I actually liked the Meyers Twilight series, though I'd never say they were quality writing and I have no interest in the movies or, so far but I'm guessing never, in anything on the side she's publishing. She did "teen angst" well, and because of the opinion I've stated earlier I think this is an interesting topic, and besides, there's a void in teen girl erotic fiction. Not that my feminist self reconciles entirely with how this was done, but pragmatic me gets it.

To the topic, I've only recently read any Brandon Sanderson, and I'm not sure if my opinion's resolved. Mistborn seemed better-conceived than Elantris, and that covers what I've read. Both were flawed to me, so I agree with much of the criticism, but I have to say I enjoyed both reads, which makes me agree with the praise. I can be entertained by much less than perfection; I am surprised that a few ASoIaF fans thought this would be something I'd love, though.

So as to the Mormon threadjack that interested me: Yes, Sanderson's prose is more developed and his ideas more encompassing and original. But Meyers writes a rarer story, for an even rarer reading audience, and this impresses me.

[russjass]

But Meyers writes a rarer story, for an even rarer reading audience, and this impresses me.

What do you mean by rarer? Because vampire seduces young attractive girl but has attack of conscience is not exactly original. The only possibly original angle is the high school setting, which i think was covered to death in the Buffy-Angel storylines and repeated in the Buffy-Spike storylines.

Possibly some of the characteristics of the vampires are original, like the glittering skin, but then again there are so many vampire novels, not to mention legends and oral tradition all over the world, that it may not be original.

[TrishB]

and more importantly her writing flows better.

So, you didn't have a burning need to take a red pen to most of her sentences?

[TrishB]

So their "rutting fury" is for running and howling as well as rutting? I'm getting Goodkind vibes here.

Well, running and howling will definitely be part of it, but in this very hunting area of Ohio, if you say an animal is in rut, you're pretty much telling me the animal horny as hell and will beat you down to get at a mate.

[Old Nan]

So, you didn't have a burning need to take a red pen to most of her sentences?

Better is of course a relative term. I don't think she's a good writer.

[Gigei]

If you think that is bad, then you really want to stay away from his sex scenes!

Lol do I even wanna know? Quotes, please. I'm wondering if its like "drooling manhood" or something like a fat pink mast!

[kuenjato]

I wonder if you can clarify your point here? When you say intellectual, do you mean a higher level of intelligence or a greater background in literature?

Trying to decide whether to be insulted or not :P

Sorry for the double post

Greater background -- Bakker's prose is more reminescent of authors like McCormac (whom he consciously emulates, in storytelling if not prose) and others. Wasn't trying to be insulting, just noting how such writing can get in the way of escapism or (for some) a storytelling voice.

[shadow catlady]

What do you mean by rarer? Because vampire seduces young attractive girl but has attack of conscience is not exactly original.

I mean a story where a teenage girl can be ravenously horny and completely "safe," while in exciting but protected danger, all at the same time. (By safe, I mean safe from real consequences from her sexuality, such as rape, out-of-wedlock pregnancy, or a reputation for being slutty.) I haven't found much in YA novels that deals with female sexuality without teaching a lesson, or, denying it exists outside of some external pressure from a male.

Like I said, I don't think this is brilliant (um, or good) literature or even empowering, but it works well as teen girl erotica, imo.

[Liadin]

I mean a story where a teenage girl can be ravenously horny and completely "safe," while in exciting but protected danger, all at the same time. (By safe, I mean safe from real consequences from her sexuality, such as rape, out-of-wedlock pregnancy, or a reputation for being slutty.) I haven't found much in YA novels that deals with female sexuality without teaching a lesson, or, denying it exists outside of some external pressure from a male.

Like I said, I don't think this is brilliant (um, or good) literature or even empowering, but it works well as teen girl erotica, imo.

I know this is off-topic, but is Bella horny in general, or just hot for Edward? I have read some YA books where the heroine wants to have sex with her love interest--the emphasis being on the "with her love interest" not the "wants to have sex," though.

[shadow catlady]

I know this is off-topic, but is Bella horny in general, or just hot for Edward?

It's an Edward thing, but it's described (to my take) in terms of uncontrollable lust rather than "taking a step in the relationship/ in my maturity" which I find a boring and limited stereotype and more common in YA novels.

[Migey]

Please, stop demeaning Brandon Sanderson by discussing the T series in his thread.

And Bella is just hot for Edward. Past that, her brain is completely devoid of anything remotely resembling coherent thought processes or a glimmer of intelligence. So it doesnt really matter anyway. Oh, and she likes diving off cliffs. Becuase thats totally normal, y'know.

[AutumnEvenings]

I haven't read Twilight, but as far as Mormons-writing-about-nonsex, there's a bit of a niche market here in Utah for, say, "nice high school student dating slightly older man, who goes on an LDS Mission. For two years, she pines for him, writes him letters (phone calls are forbidden, and I haven't actually read any of this shit since missionaries were allowed to use email), daydreams about the family they'll someday have (SEX SEX SEX), gets tempted by other men, either strays and marries someone else (no premaritial sex though) or doesn't. Ends in marriage. Aww.)

So if that's the premise--daydream about eternal love and togetherness (which is promised with a Temple marriage) and sex (and reproduction) but not actually Doing It...it's not at all original. As far as 'danger' goes, there's temptation to Leave the Path, but not usually actual violent danger.

I think the best Mormon fantasy writer I've read is Orson Scott Card. (I no longer read him, as he's gone downhill, and yeah, gone over the edge politically and 'morally' and turned all his series into "how to marry and reproduce" endings.) But Ender's Game, Seventh Son, etc. are good. I think he's better at dialogue and characters, whereas Sanderson is better at originality, worldbuilding, and not-being-a-jerk.

[Old Nan]

So, you didn't have a burning need to take a red pen to most of her sentences?

I just ran across this gem in a reread of The Gathering Storm:

He seemed too shocked to move, but she shoved him into motion and he began to move.

[Nerdanel]

I don't think Sanderson's magic system in Mistborn is that great. It feels very mechanical. I seem to recall hearing something about it having been based on an RPG. In any case, it certainly reads like it was based on one.

(Mistborn spoilers to the first two books, with some liberties:)

Vin: Here is the build for my new character. Even though Mistborn is overall the best class, I did the math and it turns out it's very beneficial to take some dips in the other caster classes rather than going straight Mistborn. The overpowered Improved Pewter Durability from the third level of Thug will improve my survivability dramatically, and the extra hitpoints and the higher base attack bonus are always nice to have. I'm also going to take one level of Seeker for Identify Allomantic Pulse, one level of Tineye for the innate initiative bonus, and two more levels of Soother so I can get Total Soothe which I hear is really good against specific enemies with low Will saves...

GM: No peeking inside the monster manual!

Vin: What? Me?

GM: Now that I think of it, the Lord Ruler probably WON'T summon his Koloss to Luthadel after all. Such nasty and uncouth creatures in his nice capital city, it just wouldn't do...

Kelsier: Man, Vin has such a powerful character build coming up while I'm stuck with my levels in Survivor. The fluff of that prestige class was so cool and yet the class itself turned out so weak. It doesn't even give any caster levels!

Vin: All hail our very own Kelsier the Survivor!

Kelsier: I'm thinking of starting up a new character. I'm going to have to talk with the GM about retiring Kelsier, preferably in a heroic sacrifice of some sort.

Sazed: By the way, I've been thinking about my daily abilities. I know the fluff says I store various attributes in my jewelry during my off-time, but why can't I store more if I have more off-time? As it is, my Greater Bracelet of Dexterity that we looted last adventure is functioning the same as a Medium Bracelet of Dexterity, just heavier, since I'm not high enough level to take proper advantage of its capacity. The rules say that the charged energy does not dissipate until I use it or sever the connection, but still there's that stupid rule about the maximum storage.

Vin: Sazed sounds sensible.

GM: Those limits are a matter of balance. If we houseruled them off, the entire Feruchemist class would have to be nerfed so that long off-times would not only be recommended for power gaming but absolutely required to play Feruchemist and not suck. It would be more broken than the D&D Truenamer.

Sazed: Yeah, but it would be more REALISTIC.

Elend: You casters have all the fun. I thought this campaign was supposed to have lots of intrigue.

Vin: It HAS lots of intrigue, by our standards at least. I'll have to tell you some time about what our last campaign was like...

Elend: Still, my Aristocrat is just standing there useless and trying not to die while we raid some keep.

Sazed: Why is your character there in the first place? It makes no sense!

Vin: Elend needs the XP to level up so that he will be more likely to make those Diplomacy checks he so loves.

Kelsier: Also, he is a player character. He has to be there.

Vin: It's not actually mandated by the rules...

Kelsier: And Sazed, if you get your Feruchemist idea through, my character is not going to start waiting years between dungeon crawls just so you can power up and go nova and win the game all by yourself.

Sazed: I'm not the munchkin here, Vin is.

Vin: If Elend doesn't come, he will fall even more behind in power level.

GM: Don't worry Elend, I have some intrigue plots lined up for you.

Vin: You did remember to pump up your key skills at last level-up, right? You had an awful lot of points spent in trivial skills like Knowledge (Political History) that almost never come up. The last I saw, your Sense Motive skill wasn't maxed and you hadn't invested any in Bluff or Intimidate.

Elend: I spread my skill points appropriately according to my backstory and personality as a bookish young man who sees the injustice of the current system because he is Lawful Good. Besides, that High Nobility background was really expensive to buy at character creation. I didn't have many points left after that.

Vin: Then you shouldn't have taken High Nobility but instead bought Mistborn or even one of the Mistings and played a Half-Skaa like me and Kelsier. Casters rock in this game.

Elend: If I save up points maybe I'll be able to buy Mistborn access after all... Give me the calculator to see how many levels that would take.

Kelsier: Anyway, let's go to the game.

GM: Right. You're all back at the mansion. What are you going to do next?

Kelsier: That's the issue... Those Lich Inquisitors are starting to be a problem, as we don't know how to get them to stay dead. Well, more dead as they are already undead. Everyone, please make skill checks and tell us if you know where the Lich Inquisitors keep their phylacteries.

GM: Remember, in character you don't even know phylacteries exist. The skill you need is Knowledge (Arcana) and by the way, that's a really hard check to make.

Elend: Can I roll Knowledge (Political History)? The Steel Ministry is a political organization after all and it existed in historical times.

GM: Yes, but you'll autofail.