The War of the Three Queens

[the silent speaker]

No love for Queen Jeyne Westerling?

[Mad Monkey]

No love for Queen Jeyne Westerling?

Who is that?

[Snowmelter]

Poor Jeyne. She was in love. She was to be Robb's queen in the North. Too bad life is not a song and her beloved was murdered and his corpse desecrated partly due to the machinations of her scheming bitch of a mother.

[Ser David the Just]

PROTIP: Don't deflower girls (especially naive ones that have never had sex until college) unless you want somebody following your around like a dog saying that they love you.

I don't think Jeyne was around long enough to matter to LF. It's kind of sad but thats what happens when you commit treason.

[Markgaryen]

Hi all,

I've been follwing this discussion with interest as Cersei and Margery battling seems obvious but the 3rd queen, each candidate proposed has difficulties.

In order here are the three most proposed candidates-

Myrcella - This would require Doran Martell to die as he went to great pains to stop Arianne. Also he has now shared with her his plans to marry his son to Dani and acquire 'Justice' through that means. Now that Arianne realizes that she will be the ruler of Dorne after her father, I don't think she will be the catalyst to crown Myrcella and start a war prematurely.

Sansa - Littlefinger has a long way to go as far as we know the story. First, Little Lord Robert has to die which unless he is planning murder does not seem imminent nor necessary. Nature will take its course. Second, declaring Sansa Stark as true holder of the North will be seen as treasonous in Kings Landing and will negate his claim on Harrenhal, seat of the Riverlands. Lastly, he has only just secured his spot as Lord Protector of the Vale and unless he already has deals with the Manderlys and other northern houses I just can't see them backing him with swords. No, Littlefinger plans to sit this next round out.

Danearys - Sigh, too far away. No ships yet. Dragons not fully grown, etc. Don't buy it - the War of the Three Queens is imminent and it turns on events in Kings Landing.

I suggested in a prior post a darkhorse queen. Anyone have other candidates with a good rationale?

[AIP]

Hi all,

I've been follwing this discussion with interest as Cersei and Margery battling seems obvious but the 3rd queen, each candidate proposed has difficulties.

In order here are the three most proposed candidates-

Myrcella - This would require Doran Martell to die as he went to great pains to stop Arianne. Also he has now shared with her his plans to marry his son to Dani and acquire 'Justice' through that means. Now that Arianne realizes that she will be the ruler of Dorne after her father, I don't think she will be the catalyst to crown Myrcella and start a war prematurely.

Sansa - Littlefinger has a long way to go as far as we know the story. First, Little Lord Robert has to die which unless he is planning murder does not seem imminent nor necessary. Nature will take its course. Second, declaring Sansa Stark as true holder of the North will be seen as treasonous in Kings Landing and will negate his claim on Harrenhal, seat of the Riverlands. Lastly, he has only just secured his spot as Lord Protector of the Vale and unless he already has deals with the Manderlys and other northern houses I just can't see them backing him with swords. No, Littlefinger plans to sit this next round out.

Danearys - Sigh, too far away. No ships yet. Dragons not fully grown, etc. Don't buy it - the War of the Three Queens is imminent and it turns on events in Kings Landing.

I suggested in a prior post a darkhorse queen. Anyone have other candidates with a good rationale?

I took a stab at it and threw Sansa in as the 3rd but I am not happy with that. I feel much as you do in that LF will sit this one out. He has other plans.

Drone will wait it out also in hopes of Daenerys returning so that crosses Myrcella off the list. Asha is out also b/c she is not a real player and lost the throne to the ironborn. So who?

Melisandre?

[the silent speaker]

I don't think Jeyne was around long enough to matter to LF.

Possibly not, but she matters to GRRM still. If she didn't, he would have sent her on to the Red Wedding.

[Guest Other-in-Law]

Possibly not, but she matters to GRRM still. If she didn't, he would have sent her on to the Red Wedding.

Not really. That would have been rubbing the insult in Walder's face, an incredibly stupid thing to do within the story.

[Mad Monkey]

Poor Jeyne. She was in love. She was to be Robb's queen in the North. Too bad life is not a song and her beloved was murdered and his corpse desecrated partly due to the machinations of her scheming bitch of a mother.

Life is a song. It's just a terrible one, written by a tone-deaf monkey with misanthropic tendencies.

Possibly not, but she matters to GRRM still. If she didn't, he would have sent her on to the Red Wedding.

She might be important to the story, but I'm not sure that Littlefinger sees her, personally, as a major factor in the future the way he might see Sansa, Myrcella, Margaery, Cersei, or Daenerys.

[Markgaryen]

Ahh... It was so obvious... Martin gave us the answer in 'Storm of Swords' as Sansa is being outfitted with new raiment by the Queen's command...

She thinks, which Queen 1. Cersei 2. Margery or 3. The Queen of Thorns

The third Queen is the Queen of Thorns, I believe. Princess Myrcella will have her day too if I understand the Prophecy that the old witch gave Cersei but not yet.

[Liliedhe]

I think the Queens are Cersei (obvious), the Queen of Thorns and Dany. Margaery may be a Queen, but like Selyse and Jeyne she does not have an impact on the game. She is not a player, she is a piece. The players are her father and her grandmother.

Dany, on the other hand, despite being ignored by most players in Westeros, is clearly to be reckoned with. The infos were all there, unless people (read Cersei) are too stupid to see it. From her dragons, to her conquest of Slavers bay, everything appeared in the council sessions. Littlefinger is not so stupid to ignore her. I'm pretty sure, if Dany comes and it looks like she can win, he will make the Vale bend knee to her, and try to secure the North for Sansa. If she looks too weak, he will back the Tyrells against her.

[Drowned Princess]

I took a stab at it and threw Sansa in as the 3rd but I am not happy with that. I feel much as you do in that LF will sit this one out. He has other plans.

Drone will wait it out also in hopes of Daenerys returning so that crosses Myrcella off the list. Asha is out also b/c she is not a real player and lost the throne to the ironborn. So who?

Melisandre?

I like the idea of Myrcella being one of them, for the prohpecy, and because Arianne did actually try to kickstart that plot, and it would probably be obvious to someone like Petyr that they would follow through with this. Petyr's trying to second guess everyone whose plots he doesn't even have a part in, so he knows exactly where he'll stands when the dust clears. So he knows that factions within Dorne will be actively trying to crown Myrcella and to get revenge for Oberyn until someone takes her out of the picture entirely.

However I also think you might be on to something with Melisandre. Not as the Queen herself, as such, but her supporters do refer to themselves as the Queens Men because of Queen Selyse's stance on her, so he could have been referring to Selyse, but more specifically to Melisandre's influence on the situation via Selyse, with Melisandre acting as the kind of Éminence grise. I'm sure he's pretty up to speed on what they're doing up at the Wall (did they not discuss Jon being made Lord Commander, if not actually by name?). The thing that lets this theory down most is the sheer distance of Melisandre et al from everyone else right now.

(FTR I also giggled to myself that it was Renly :cheers:)

[Wouter]

Ahh... It was so obvious... Martin gave us the answer in 'Storm of Swords' as Sansa is being outfitted with new raiment by the Queen's command...

She thinks, which Queen 1. Cersei 2. Margery or 3. The Queen of Thorns

The third Queen is the Queen of Thorns, I believe. Princess Myrcella will have her day too if I understand the Prophecy that the old witch gave Cersei but not yet.

Obvious problem: the "queen of thorns" and Margaery are on the same side. It would just be the Lannister-Tyrell conflict then that he is speaking about.

[MineIsTheFury]

Sansa - Littlefinger has a long way to go as far as we know the story. First, Little Lord Robert has to die which unless he is planning murder does not seem imminent nor necessary. Nature will take its course. Second, declaring Sansa Stark as true holder of the North will be seen as treasonous in Kings Landing and will negate his claim on Harrenhal, seat of the Riverlands. Lastly, he has only just secured his spot as Lord Protector of the Vale and unless he already has deals with the Manderlys and other northern houses I just can't see them backing him with swords. No, Littlefinger plans to sit this next round out.

I got the impression that we will kill little Lord Robert when the time comes. I think he's also waiting for Tyrion to resurface as for his plan to go off he would have to figure out a way to get rid of him or have their marriage absolved(since it was never consummated).

He's in an odd situation with Sansa since Tyrion is still alive.

[Robert B._ Alcoholic]

Sansa - Littlefinger has a long way to go as far as we know the story. First, Little Lord Robert has to die which unless he is planning murder does not seem imminent nor necessary. Nature will take its course.

Not really. Littlefinger is already murdering Little Lord Robert. In the second-to-last Alayne chapter in AFFC, Littlefinger orders Maester Colemon to give Robert sweetsleep in his milk to help with the shakes, noting that the little lord is fond of sweets. In the last Alayne chapter in AFFC, Maester Colemon voices his misgivings about regularly giving Robert sweetsleep, since sweetsleep accumulates in the body. In effect, LF is using sweetsleep to poison young Robert Arryn, just as he and Lysa once used the Tears of Lys on Jon Arryn.

Alayne/Sansa (in a remarkable display of cold-heartedness if you think about it) responds to Maester Colemon's concerns by telling him to mind his own beeswax, follow the Lord Protector's wishes and keep the sweetsleep coming. Indeed, Sansa has already come a long way!

I feel bad for Maester Colemon... after getting porridge thrown in his face by the shaking lord way too many times, he will do his duty by Littlefinger and then meet an untimely death as the man who knew too much.

[Edward the Great]

Given the context, LF was referring to Cersei, the Queen Regent, Margaery, the Queen, and Olenna, the Queen of Thorns. It was their maneuvering that was pushing the Seven Kingdoms back to war.

[Lord Godric]

I too originally thought of the Queen of Thorns as the third queen, but like another poster pointed out, Margarey and Olenna are on the same side. A 'war of three queens' seems to refer to a contest with three opposing sides, not just two.

[Gurkhal]

Guess I'm the only one who don't think that Cersei will get out of this one and return to power. I think she will either be chopped or loose her position as Regent. I may be alone in all this but I do not think that Qyburn's champion may necessarily be put into work to save Cersei now even if Qyburn would dearly want so.

My guess of the Queens would therefor be:

Margaery - with the Lannisters and Tyrells behind her

Sansa - with the Arryns and various anti-Lannister groups from the last war

Daenerys - who may be a late comer and don't show up untill both Margaery and Sansa are already set against each other

Less likly candidates would be Asha, Selyne or Myrcella. But as has already been pointed out thye don't seem to be having many hopes for getting crowned.

[Solitae]

I really want one of the Queens to be the Queen of Thorns, but the issue of her and Margery being on the same side is clearly a concern. However, we do know that the War of Five Kings didn't actually have five kings in play at once, so it seems there is some wiggle room.

I still lean toward the obvious trio of Cersei, Margery, and Dany, although Cersei may be tumbling out of the running.

What really came to mind with this discussion is Selyse. Is she up to anything right now while Stannis and Melisandre play 'burn the wildling'? Her note in the back of AFFC said she's at Eastwatch, but I do wonder if she's doing anything other than warming her toes.

[Rakka]

Why do so many people ignore that it's Littlefinger who's talking about the three queens, and how he's preparing Sansa to be a queen? Of course if he intends to sit out the next war too, and emerge from the Vale as the bringer of peace, and by the way these two people are the legitimate rulers of half of the realms and WE have all our men fit to fight and well fed, too... but if he knows about Dany (which is likely) and the dragons (if he believes they're real, but who would be so stupid as to attempt invasion without dragons?) how is he expecting to deal with them? Staying out of the war and letting others battle each other into exhaustion seems like a clever plan if you can be certain that one of the other three isn't going to succeed in unifying the kingdom behind her.