Breaking Bad Seasons Three and Four

[Rockroi]

(Cont. from old thread which was closed for being just too damn awesome)

-I liked last night's episode for the simple reason that it, once again, proved what I was saying about the Sky/Walt dynamic: if and when he came clean to her, she would be unable to just "walk away." Her seemingly irrational hatred of Walt was tempered only by the fact that she saw, really, what this could be all about: safety, satisfaction, comfort, and control: all the things missing from their life together. Once she saw that money- just like I said she would -she has been far more agreeable to Walt's inside track here.

-The entire set up of the episode was great; the Georgia O'Keeffe paintings coming to symbolize the "History Repeating Itself" aspect of like in general, in these people's lives, and (to a lesser extent) in the run of any television show as certain story lines are going to come back up; certain attitudes never leave. It is the perfect talking point to Gus' statement: never make the same mistake twice. But Jesse and his drug lifestyle? Walt with Sky? Even Sky getting into the drug trade for the same reason that Walt did (ostensibly to save her family). Its all coming around again. Very well done.

-Sky's entire attitude shift was perfect; absolutely perfect. The fact that she saw the car wash and is "all in" deciding to run it makes PERFECT sense. That's the thing: when Sky and Walt are rational human beings, they make SOLID decisions. I admire that about both characters.

-And notice how the whole "YOU ARE A DRUG DEALER" nonsense is completely and totally 100% out of her vocabulary? Notice how all that righteous indignation, all that confusion, all that shrill judgmental BS (that so many people on this thread paid such deference to) was WASHED AWAY as soon as she saw that money? See what happens when somebody recognizes and understands their own self-interest? Huh, 'magine that?

-Not sure what I think of the Jesse story-line. I mean, on the one-hand, I like that he is out for vengeance, just generally. But specifically, Jesse has NEVER struck me as a guy who will risk everything to get back at someone. I WANT the character to be that way, but I don't think he has ever been THAT guy. I mean, he was gonna kill Hank until Walt offered him the goods.

And the girlfriend.... ugh... Could they have stuffed ANY more cliches into the 15 minutes of story-time that took up. Start with Jesse finding the ONE HOT GIRL at the rehab meeting; OF COURSE she has a judgmental family (for good reason, mind you). They are very religious (did you miss the crucifix? How could you?) And by law she is a Latina living in the US so she MUST have a young child with the father no where to be found. She has had a tough life, but still has access to great hair-care products.

How Jesse did not know this woman had a kid AFTER BEING IN HER HOME is just piss poor. Piss poor.

Anyway... Jesse decides to press the button that ALWAYS works out great on any television show: accuse a woman of being a bad mother. This has NEVER gone poorly. So she has an excuse to go off. Fine.

But JUST ONCE I would like it if a character actually spoke back to this dribble.

Her: How dare you say I am a bad mother?

Him: Ugm... didn't you just try to score meth off me?

Her: Yes, but you wanted to do it to!

Him: Well, yeah but I don't have a kid. And one of the reasons I do not have a kid is because I like meth. See how that works?

Her: I love my son.

Him: I never said you didn't.

Her: Nobody is going to say I do not take care of my child!

Him: Again, I never said you wouldn't.

Her: I would die for him!!!!!

Him: I never said you wouldn't; If we were on the internet having this discussion, I would have said the word 'strawman' like 15 times.

(pause)

Him: What I did say - and what you have failed to answer in any way whatsoever -is that you are going to do meth while caring for a young child. Yes, that makes me a judgmental prick, but the fact is its a relevant judgment. You are putting your own needs above that of your child in the form of a dangerous, recreational narcotic. You have stated many times that you "cannot get caught again" and I have met your bitch grandmother when she walked in on us a few says ago; ergo, the idea of being "surprised" again while you are potentially meth'd up, is not out of the question.

Her: I would do ANYTHING for that boy!

Him: Including meth!

AND SCENE!

So, yeah, that part I could have done without. Yeah, I KINDA like that Jesse is in the mix for some vengeance, but not sure I liked everything that went with it. Other than that, fantastic episode.

OH, and ETA: "I once convinced a woman I was Kevin Costner, and it worked because I believed it!"

That... that is ... simply breathtaking.

[Commodore]

Saul Goodman stole every scene he was in. His phony praise of Skylar was brilliantly bad.

Saul Goodman has a website! The commercials on that site are a riot.

[Samalander]

Wonderful episode and wonderful site.

As for Jesse, I think he is the way he is now, because of his girlfriend's death. Had she not died, he wouldn't be all Revenge of the Stoner. It was well handled, all in all.

Skyler is going to end up running all of Walt's croocked books. What are the odds the gang Jesse is gunning for works for Gus?

[GuybrushThreepwood]

The thing that bothered me the most was that Andrea (the latina woman), when talking about her child being born, said that she swore that he would not grow up to be like Tomas. But Tomas is what, 10? And the little kid is 6? So Tomas was some sort of unrepentant criminal by the age of 4? Small, I know, but Breaking Bad is usually so good at the small detail stuff.

On the plus side, this was Saul's best episode to date. Badger and Skinny Pete were pretty great, too.

[palin99999]

Saul Goodman has a website! The commercials on that site are a riot.

"S'all good man, cause I called Saul Goodman." :laugh:

[WarGalley]

Yeah Saul's a great character and I laughed at that Kevin Costner line.

What are the odds the gang Jesse is gunning for works for Gus?

I was wondering that the whole time and was expecting Jesse to look at the meth he bought from Tomas and see that it was blue. He didn't even give it a glance though. I suppose they could still go with that in the next episode opener, but that would be weaker than ending on that kind of note.

[WarGalley]

-The entire set up of the episode was great; the Georgia O'Keeffe paintings coming to symbolize the "History Repeating Itself" aspect of like in general, in these people's lives, and (to a lesser extent) in the run of any television show as certain story lines are going to come back up; certain attitudes never leave. It is the perfect talking point to Gus' statement: never make the same mistake twice.

Was Gus talking about Jesse when he said that? It seemed too obvious with the way they cut to Jesse afterward but maybe I'm overanalyzing here.

I also keep wondering if the best thing Gus could have done was 1) kill off Jesse back when Walt and Jesse were separated and make it look like rival gangwork while 2) making Walt an offer of protection, the security and sophistication of the chem lab and of course all the money.

But Jesse and his drug lifestyle? Walt with Sky? Even Sky getting into the drug trade for the same reason that Walt did (ostensibly to save her family). Its all coming around again. Very well done.

Not sure I agree that Jesse's drug lifestyle is very well done. I like it so far, but ever since Chris's drug problem in the Sopranos, I have been soured with the drug addict storylines on TV, with the only exception being Bubbles in the Wire. I did enjoy Skyler offering the car wash idea and bringing back something miniscule from Season 1 and Saul's counter that they didn't have a Danny to run the place.

Overall I like where they're taking things. The tension was calm after Hank's shootout and is now slowly building again.

[ztemhead]

Okay, previously I said outside chance Walt's breaking bad was due to a brain tumor. While I don't think it's likely, I still think there's a chance they end up going there.

Newest hairbrained theory: Skylar is informing on Walt to the FBI/ DEA with the ultimate goal of taking down Gus and as much of the cartel as they can. Yeah, she doesn't know anything about him yet, but look at how quick she's working her way in there. Skylar wants to protect her family, and I'm having a hard time seeing her wanting to reconnect with Walt. If she can get witness protection out of the deal, it seems plausible.

[Third Knight on the Left]

Okay, previously I said outside chance Walt's breaking bad was due to a brain tumor. While I don't think it's likely, I still think there's a chance they end up going there.

Newest hairbrained theory: Skylar is informing on Walt to the FBI/ DEA with the ultimate goal of taking down Gus and as much of the cartel as they can. Yeah, she doesn't know anything about him yet, but look at how quick she's working her way in there. Skylar wants to protect her family, and I'm having a hard time seeing her wanting to reconnect with Walt. If she can get witness protection out of the deal, it seems plausible.

Yeah, no. :P

[Rockroi]

Not sure I agree that Jesse's drug lifestyle is very well done. I like it so far, but ever since Chris's drug problem in the Sopranos, I have been soured with the drug addict storylines on TV, with the only exception being Bubbles in the Wire. I did enjoy Skyler offering the car wash idea and bringing back something miniscule from Season 1 and Saul's counter that they didn't have a Danny to run the place.

The only reason I like Jesse's return to the drug world is that, to date, we have not seen Jesse actually ingest any drugs. That makes him just slightly more menacing than say Chris on the Sopranos. If Jesse is a clean and sober drug dealer, that's kind of special (if done correctly). To me, that is what I like about Jesse: so far he is thinking long term, and he is a decidedly short-term kind of guy.

And I do agree, 100%, with your identification of the over-used "return to drugs" story-line that many shows rely upon. Chris in the Sopranos was, by far, the worst as he relapsed like 15 times, each time more convoluted than the time before (though culminating very well in the "car accident"). But other shows do it as well, like The Wire and even Deadwood. I find it lazy storytelling wherein the writers put in the "drug addict" line without much nuance or depth and then know, full well, that should a series episode come up that needs filler, they can just plop in the "relapse" story.

So far, you will note, this has not happened with Jesse. Yet.

[Relic]

Last season Walt was a total prick. This season he seems to have turned a corner. Now it looks like its Jesse's turn to be an arsehole. I don't really like what they are doing to his character. Jane's death doesn't explain his idiotic behaviour.

[ztemhead]

wow, what an awesome episode. The part with Hank and Marie near the end had me cracking up here in my apartment. The neighbors must think I'm nuts.

Again, I'm still wondering about the depth of the relationship between Saul and Gus. I'm thinking Gus says "jump" and Saul says "how high?"

[jurble]

About the kid in today's ep. Tomas. I don't think Gus ordered him killed, so I'm not sure how Gus is gonna take the murder of his men.

[The Meereense Knot]

Damn, Walt kinda went from one end to the other there. I agree that it didn't seemed like Tomas was ordered dead, but I don't think those guys were the creative type on how to deal with firing an employee.

Spoiler

As far as the previews for next week go, it seems like they're setting up a major confrontation between Walt, Gus and the cartel. The previews made it seem like Walt was gonna make a play for buying the loyalty of Gus's men or making a deal with the cartel, but I don't see how either would reasonably agree to it.

[palin99999]

WOW!! :bowdown:

[SwordoftheMorning]

holy fuck! Well, Walt is damn sure a gangsta now.

helluva episode.

[Rockroi]

Run.

Okay, lot going on.

1. Sky + Walt > Tony + Carmella: The Sopranos had a few bad seasons in there, but one viewers appreciated was the season when Carmella, finally, kicked Tony out. It was awesome; an amazing showdown. The result? Oh, he was back in the home the first episode of the very next season. The message was that nothing that happened at the end of the previous season mattered (a recurring theme with the Sopranos). BB goes a long way the other way: it shows that when you kick out a spouse, it matters. The writers could easily have had Sky welcome Walt back.

But no. Her kicking him out resonates; it was important to her (even if it still seems shrill to me). It cannot just all be cool and peaches and cream merely because he has money. And she says that. He got her into this; he cannot just make all the rules. But the show does an AMAZING job with Walt; a weaker show would have ended the scene outside the house with Sky's pithy one-liner. But no. BB takes that next logical step: negotiations and compromise (the absolute hallmark of any healthy relationship). That was, potentially, the most important scene in the history of their relationship on the show.

2. Marie. Yeah. Those women have very good hands. Very good hands.

3. Gus. This was the first episode where I was actually afraid of Gus. Absolutely, completely afraid of Gus. He was terrifying. I knew that Jesse was not going to die in that meeting scene. You just know: this show is not Deadwood- they are not going to kill a major character in the second-to-last episode of the season. But the VIEWER felt the tension that JESSE must have been feeling; is this the moment where I die? Did they bring him out there to kill him and chop him up? That MUST have been in Jesse's mind. And you felt it. But Gus really did show that he is a terrifying personality.

My only problem here is that unlike Godfather II ("The Family had a lot of buffers"), Gus is REALLY close to his henchmen; uncomfortably close. There is no separation between him- as top dog -and those who will rub up against the law. To me, that feels unsafe. Somebody else- a decided "second" should be the go between from Gus to these idiots. Otherwise, Gus - who is an otherwise careful businessman -is exposing himself to potential problems.

3. Jesse: again, let me quote my favorite source, Me:

-Not sure what I think of the Jesse story-line. I mean, on the one-hand, I like that he is out for vengeance, just generally. But specifically, Jesse has NEVER struck me as a guy who will risk everything to get back at someone. I WANT the character to be that way, but I don't think he has ever been THAT guy. I mean, he was gonna kill Hank until Walt offered him the goods.

Obviously, this entire episode revolved around Jesse. It revolved around his plan and his un-distilled passion for taking out these guys. Its pretty intense. And in defense of the story-line: there is precedent; the episode where the ATM falls on the guys' head, Jesse seemed generally concerned over the druggie couple's child.

But at the same time, I am not buying it. I think Jesse's almost grotesque desire to get this kid away from the drug dealers is disproportional; he BARELY knows this woman; knows Tomas not at all. He has been in the drug life for a long long time; he MUST have grown accustomed to seeing children used. Even if you add in that his buddy was killed by these guys, it feels too rushed; too convenient.

And with that out of the way, it matters not at all. I thought it worked well in the context of this entire episode, the season and the story. Yeah, it was rushed, but Jesse is a huge character and he did A LOT this season. The writers fit it in where they could and this was the best thing they had. It worked about as well as it could.

And I do agree, 100%, with your identification of the over-used "return to drugs" story-line that many shows rely upon... So far, you will note, this has not happened with Jesse. Yet.

So, yeah, then THAT happened. However, the episode did it VERY WELL! Jesse relapsed NOT for the sake of providing a story or to fill an otherwise light story; it was in the context of him gearing up to kill or be killed. In that light, that whole scene worked; the relapse worked. It was well done.

And then Walt came in... holy. fucking. hell. thatwasfuckingincredibleIamnotquiteoverit;Isawitcomingandstillappreciatedit;itstillmademydrawdropandweallsawitcoming1000milesawaythatwasfuckingamaizng.

[sckma]

.........................WOW

That episode was amazing. On so many accounts. Just from start to finish, with all it's different threads.

When I saw Jesse walking towards the two guys, I was thinking, 'cool, this hasn't happened in a while, maybe it will be like when Walt took the right amount of money from Tuco'.................. and we get that.

I think I'll post more when I'm done getting over that.

[Blaine]

Annnnnnnnd Walt needs yet another windshield.

[Samalander]

Yes, yes. Great episode and all that.

But once more they are filming people with faces half draped in shadow! Enough of that cheap trick, already!