Mafia 75 -- Revolution in Vanillaville

[House Ashford]

hehe, now that is a nice cross post. :P

[House Pommingham]

I can understand that an FM parrots suspicions of other players, but why would he use this to clear someone? Perhaps he tried to buddy Westerling, but then he shouldn't have killed him afterwards, right?

Anyway, I'm off counting sheeps. I'll have a closer look at Reed, Connington and of course Bolton tomorrow.

[House Reed]

You've been asked to explain this a couple of times, IIRC, but still haven't said what made you think this about Ashford. Straight answer please, Reed.

Only once (that I noticed anyway), and my answer wasn't straight because I didn't realize that I had been taken literally. I did not mean that I think Ashford's a gung-ho aggressive FM hunter a la Indiana Jones or whatever, just that I think his behavior is in line with an innocent. I talked about this before here. I wasn't suspicious at all of his behavior, and in my book, townie = person looking for killers. Nothing more to it.

I think it means Reed was copying others and not being original. The wording is just too close. Makes me wonder about why he felt safe copying Westerling.

Obviously, I knew he'd die and everyone would reread him! :thumbsup:

[House Tyrell]

1) Yes. And I have nothing to back this up, just my experience in mafia. The mods still won't give me spoiler access during the game, ye know?

This argument bugs the shit out of me...

Gah! I can't even describe how annoyed I am right now. There's nothing I can even address with it.

I don't even think statistically this holds true -- admittedly, I haven't done the research either, but it's just... not true. Gah!

And besides, you're on the list of players who didn't vote Vance too!

2) I know this, but I made a brilliant explanation why this post was a manifest of innocence by Frey. Apparently you didn't listen to good old Tarth. :P

Not listening and disagreeing are two different things. I really wasn't looking for your input on the matter anyway, I wanted to hear from Frey.

[House Ashford]

Only once (that I noticed anyway), and my answer wasn't straight because I didn't realize that I had been taken literally. I did not mean that I think Ashford's a gung-ho aggressive FM hunter a la Indiana Jones or whatever, just that I think his behavior is in line with an innocent. I talked about this before here. I wasn't suspicious at all of his behavior, and in my book, townie = person looking for killers. Nothing more to it.

Obviously, I knew he'd die and everyone would reread him! :thumbsup:

A psychic. :P

[House Dalt]

The Vance lynch was a poor choice. Not happy about it at all, and I'll be looking through the votes against him to see what comes up.

I still think Ashford was a good lynch, and think we really messed up by choosing Vance over him.

Hmm, guess I have to shoulder a bit of the blame there - I was pretty much casting about for anything I found at all dodgy at that point. Didn't feel like there was enough on Ashford to make him a clear cut best choice. The way Connington and I posted cases at the same time probably gave the Vance train a little more momentum than it deserved.

Other people on the train were Westerling, Ashford, Reed and Frey. Ashford was always going to vote for Vance, so that leaves Reed and Frey.

Reed's vote seemed strange, like he didn't really have a good reason to pick one over the other, but had to pretend to have one (he didn't pretend very well though). As you can see, I've just tried giving him a poke about it, we'll see what comes up.

Frey's behaviour before the lynch perturbs me somewhat. I've always have been wary about public about-faces, and that's exactly what he did...

ok general thoughtsa of a quick read.

Westerling - Reed case. Read asking for role clarification. Dunno about you but if I was Evil I would have normally ask questions like this via PM to Targ. Yes this could be WIFOM and not every plays evil the same way. So I see the case as a non-tell and so was Reeds response. I am also not worried about Westerling making such a case so early in the game he just wanted to move the game out of the joking RP stage a little earlier than normal. My impression of Westerling is that he is trying to help, and I have good vibes about Reed.

I kind of got the impression Bolton was being a little defensive at times in the earlier game pages. I've felt better about him in latter posts but something is bugging me.

Estermont - Ashford

I have been confused in many games before, and I don't belive anyone would feel pressured into writing something from Bolton's one liner. Ashford gave us his quick impression without checking carefully. Yes he got the facts wrong Which I don't find an innocent or evil thing) and overstated what was there. At most Reed poked his tougne out with the !!!!! post and htere wasn't any biting. (+ timing may have been in the wrong order)

I don't mind the mistake so much, but I am concerned about the lack of other points on other things or the lack of a Sorry I made a mistake post.

I think other people had some issuses with Estermont but I really could not see what they where. I like Estermoint. I also like Fossaway (for Day one)

and I did have a good feeling about Vance - although I have just read Connys case which means casts him (vance) in a different light, I need to think about this.

However right at this moment I think Ashford is the better option.

Vance I can see the case on him. Ashford has made given us some other opinions now (even if under pressure) and as we are not sure how much time left exactly I better not wait any longer.

EDIT: Xpost with a few people.

[House Sunglass]

Vote count when the first case is made against Vance.

2 votes for Bolton. (Fossoway, Reed)

1 vote for Connington (Tarth)

1 vote for Tarth (Connington)

1 vote for Westerling (Bolton.)

1 vote for Fossoway (Vance)

1 vote for Ashford (Estermont)

1 vote for Reed (Westerling)

2 players have not voted: Frey, Ashford.

Then Fossoway makes his case.

The highlighted sentence seems weird to me. It's not like either case is that strong, and they've both been defending themselves reasonably competently. That makes it feel like a statement that's designed to sound conscientious.

In addition, the sentiment that Player A has made a weak case on Player B, and is therefore suspicious seems disingenous at best. It creates an artificial division of the players based on their opinions of the case in question, as opposed to encouraging players to generate fresh content with new viewpoints and cases.

Vote Vance

Can't say that I have a problem with the point he makes.

That's followed 9 minutes later by Connington's first significant post of the game. After saying that he likes Westerling and Reed, Conn goes on the attack against Vance.

1) He starts by attacking a post that doesn't really stand out to me or bother me at all. Won't bother quoting that here.

2) Then he claims that Vance attacked Fossoway for a joke vote. Here was Vance's post -

Sometimes I wonder if people vote Targ as an easy way to not have to take a stand.

Your thoughts on that, Fossoway?

And Conn's comment -

Attacks someone for an obvious joke vote. Silly.

The case didn't just suck, i've got nothing against weak day 1 cases. But we were still in the joke phase, it was an obvious joke, and exactly what sort of different reaction were you expecting from a killer? It's nonsensical.

Clearly, Conn is missing the point of Vance's post. The fact that Fossoway's vote was a joke seemed to be the entire point of Vance's criticism. He's saying that Fossoway joke voted for Targ as a way to avoid contribution.

Conn missing what seems to be a pretty obvious point makes me wonder if he was stretching to make his case.

And then he criticizes Vance's summary post -

But it's this post that's the major problem. This post is horrible. "Not really liking" cases. "A little suspicious" of Tarth, Estermont and Fossoway. Qualifying words I don't like on day 1, it removes any pressure you're trying to put on. There's no pressure on any of them from this, particularly since Vance included three people in the little suspicion. Having trouble with Ashford - Is that suspicion or not? :unsure: Wants the non-contributors to post more - Who doesn't? Does that really add anything?

It's a lot of words of nothing.

Vance

I think he's blowing this out of proportion. I'm no fan of wishy washy opinions, but I didn't think Vance's post was that bad. Especially on day 1. Yet Connington calls it 'horrible'.

On top of that, I don't like Conn's next post. After his case, he sees that Fossoway had also made a case on Vance. So he posts again, to make sure that everyone knows it was a cross-post.

Crossposted with Fossoway.

Makes me wonder if he was worried that people would think he was jumping on a bandwagon.

New vote count -

2 votes for Ashford (Estermont, Tarth)

2 votes for Vance (Fossoway, Connington)

1 vote for Westerling (Bolton.)

1 vote for Fossoway (Vance)

1 vote for Reed (Westerling)

1 vote for Bolton (Reed)

2 players have not voted: Frey, Ashford.

Will get to the rest of the day in a bit. At this point, though, I think Connington is looking suspicious.

[House Targaryen]

IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT

Due to a surprising edict in City Hall released this morning, Vanillaville is adopting a new gold mechanics system. Furthermore, as we've been reevaluating some of our values as a community, we will be rewarding you for creative endeavours such as fine arts and literature.

-For every four posts you make, you earn one gold. (For example, if your post count is fifty, you will have twelve gold.)

-For every thoughts post you send in, you earn one gold. (I will count every PM to the mods from your alt account as a thoughts post).

-For every haiku you post with perfect scansion, you earn three gold.

-If the haiku is about the beauty, wisdom, and genorisity of your hardworking mods, you will receive five gold.

-If you post a link in the thread to a flattering artist's rendition of the beautiful, courageous Mina with her preternatural scumhunting ability, striking fear into the hearts of FM with her relentless attacks and beautiful eloquence, you earn eight gold. (Key word: flattering.)

-Once during the day, you may send us a PM asking us to rob another player. You will have a 25% chance of stealing 5 gold from that player.

-Several players may offer their gold to one player if they wish. However, they must prove to the mods that they have the available funds first.

-We the mods will not bother to get off our ass and tally your gold for you unless you PM us to buy a prize. We also have the right to refuse to honour your gold if we think you're spamming the thread or our inbox so as to abuse the system.

--------------

The Prizes

Unfortunately, only one of each may be redeemed. Once someone collects sufficient funds to buy this prize, I willI will announce in the thread that the prize is no longer available (although not who bought it).

Fifty gold will buy you the right to change your alt name or avatar to whatever you want, as long as it's not offensive, a copy of someone else's, revealing someone's alt, or otherwise breaking the rules.

One hundred gold will buy you the ability to write one l end-of-day scene that the mods will post after the lynch.

Three hundred gold will buy you immunity to all night actions that start with a T.

Five hundred gold will buy you a one-shot sheep ability that you can use on any player (forcing him to post in emoticons and quotes) that will last for a period of five hours.

Nine hundred gold will buy you knowledge of one letter in one of the FM's names.

Thirty-two thousand gold will buy you the mod confirming your innocence in the thread.

[House Dalt]

Only once (that I noticed anyway), and my answer wasn't straight because I didn't realize that I had been taken literally. I did not mean that I think Ashford's a gung-ho aggressive FM hunter a la Indiana Jones or whatever, just that I think his behavior is in line with an innocent. I talked about this before here. I wasn't suspicious at all of his behavior, and in my book, townie = person looking for killers. Nothing more to it.

Obviously, I knew he'd die and everyone would reread him! :thumbsup:

Satisfies me for the time being.

Remove Vote

I'm going to call it an early night guys. Adios!

[House Reed]

IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT

Due to a surprising edict in City Hall released this morning, Vanillaville is adopting a new gold mechanics system. Furthermore, as we've been reevaluating some of our values as a community, we will be rewarding you for creative endeavours such as fine arts and literature.

our mods are crazy

if they think mafia counts

as literature

Just sayin'.

[House Tyrell]

Wow, that's a lot of work for something that only pays off at higher prices.

I'm an uneducated heathen: I don't even think I recall the proper format of a haiku: 2 sylables, 7 sylables, 4 sylables, 3 sylables... er, something like that.

On the other hand I did take several years of art class... but I don't even know how Mina looks! :P

Also, if we pool together 32,000 gold and give it to a FM will you validate their innocence as well? (i.e. lie to us)

Edit: Oh wait, I get it. It's a joke.

Heh, funny...

...

[House Connington]

That's followed 9 minutes later by Connington's first significant post of the game. After saying that he likes Westerling and Reed, Conn goes on the attack against Vance.

1) He starts by attacking a post that doesn't really stand out to me or bother me at all. Won't bother quoting that here.

2) Then he claims that Vance attacked Fossoway for a joke vote. Here was Vance's post -

And Conn's comment -

Clearly, Conn is missing the point of Vance's post. The fact that Fossoway's vote was a joke seemed to be the entire point of Vance's criticism. He's saying that Fossoway joke voted for Targ as a way to avoid contribution.

Nope, it's you who's missing the point. I know that the point of Vance's criticism was that Fossoway's post was a joke. Vance saying that's what he did doesn't make it any better. Attacking an obvious joke, when we're in the joke phase, as apparently a way of avoiding contribution, is ludicrous.

And then he criticizes Vance's summary post -

I think he's blowing this out of proportion. I'm no fan of wishy washy opinions, but I didn't think Vance's post was that bad. Especially on day 1. Yet Connington calls it 'horrible'.

Pffft, it was a load of wishy washy nothing. And earlier in the thread someone else thought that Ashford had been making a genuine attempt to find the killers, despite also posting wishy washy nothing.

Do you people realise what you're condoning? We need people to make strong arguments, to say who they think is guilty and who isn't. If we like this sort of behaviour, if we condone it, the game gets increadibly easy for the killers.

On top of that, I don't like Conn's next post. After his case, he sees that Fossoway had also made a case on Vance. So he posts again, to make sure that everyone knows it was a cross-post.

Makes me wonder if he was worried that people would think he was jumping on a bandwagon.

And you accused me of Stretching. Pointing out a crosspost is wrong now? :lol: :rofl:

[House Reed]

Wow, that's a lot of work for something that only pays off at higher prices.

I'm an uneducated heathen: I don't even think I recall the proper format of a haiku: 2 sylables, 7 sylables, 4 sylables, 3 sylables... er, something like that.

On the other hand I did take several years of art class... but I don't even know how Mina looks! :P

Also, if we pool together 32,000 gold and give it to a FM will you validate their innocence as well? (i.e. lie to us)

She looks like this. Obviously. ...Except that's not a painting, so maybe like this?

And speak for yourself about pay-offs. I'd love to change my av so I can tell it apart from Estermont's.

eta: unless it's just for lol's, which would be sad because I'm getting kinda tired of rereading and going WAIT WHEN DID I SAY THAT--oh.

[House Reed]

Do you people realise what you're condoning? We need people to make strong arguments, to say who they think is guilty and who isn't. If we like this sort of behaviour, if we condone it, the game gets increadibly easy for the killers.

You're cute when you preach.

[House Targaryen]

It is completely, 100% serious. If you somehow accumulate 400 gold, I will actually give you the sheep ability. If you accumulate 900 gold, I will reveal a letter in one of the FM's names.

I never said it would be easy, though. Or even possible.

That's the spirit, Reed! But I should have specified that

your artist's rendition has to be self-drawn for you to get the gold. Maybe I'll give you two gold for the Britomart one, but from now on, that loophole is closed!

If an FM defeats the laws of mathematics and buys the thirty-two thousand gold prize, I will simply not reveal anything, but the prize will no longer be up for grabs.

[House Tyrell]

And speak for yourself about pay-offs. I'd love to change my av so I can tell it apart from Estermont's.

Um dude, I'm pink. And naked... very naked.

All you have to do is learn to differentiate better the differences between green and 'aqua', problem solved :P

eta: unless it's just for lol's, which would be sad because I'm getting kinda tired of rereading and going WAIT WHEN DID I SAY THAT--oh.

Hmm... let me try this:

Mina, Mina, and more Mina.

Hmmm... only 3997 more images and I should be able to clear my name!

edit: awh, I cross-posted with you Targ... can't I get some slack too? :P

[House Reed]

That's the spirit, Reed! But I should have specified that

your artist's rendition has to be self-drawn for you to get the gold. Maybe I'll give you two gold for the Britomart one, but from now on, that loophole is closed!

But how do you know

That I am not Will Etty,

the master artist?

[House Connington]

You're cute when you preach.

Gotta spread the word.

[House Sunglass]

Next vote of the day comes from Frey.

Estermont - Ashford

I have been confused in many games before, and I don't belive anyone would feel pressured into writing something from Bolton's one liner. Ashford gave us his quick impression without checking carefully. Yes he got the facts wrong Which I don't find an innocent or evil thing) and overstated what was there. At most Reed poked his tougne out with the !!!!! post and htere wasn't any biting. (+ timing may have been in the wrong order)

I don't mind the mistake so much, but I am concerned about the lack of other points on other things or the lack of a Sorry I made a mistake post.

I think other people had some issuses with Estermont but I really could not see what they where. I like Estermoint. I also like Fossaway (for Day one)

and I did have a good feeling about Vance - although I have just read Connys case which means casts him (vance) in a different light, I need to think about this.

However right at this moment I think Ashford is the better option.

Now that is a wishy washy post. Defends Ashford, but is worried about the lack of contribution, so eventually votes him. Says he has a good feeling about Vance, but then says he needs to think about it due to Conn's case. Doesn't make much of a commitment on either player.

Frey - I think Connington's case against Vance was horrible. What did you like about it, and why did it make you re-evaluate Vance?

Then Westerling votes for Vance, and we get a new count -

3 votes for Ashford (Estermont, Tarth, Frey)

3 votes for Vance (Fossoway, Connington, Westerling)

1 vote for Westerling (Bolton)

1 vote for Fossoway (Vance)

1 vote for Bolton (Reed)

1 player has not voted: Ashford

Next, Connington says that he'd also be willing to lynch Ashford. I'll probably come back to this post later, when I take a closer look at Connington.

Then Ashford and Vance vote for each other, making it 4 to 4.

And Frey reiterates some of his opinions -

I don't find anybody really guilty but I do find you worrying. I don't find you mistake and confused post concerning given the circumstances, just your reaction. you have not mentioned any thing else. So yes I do find you suspect, and you have been arround more than me.

As for others. Something bugs me about Bolton, his earlier posts more than his latter ones. It may just be his playstyle (but I'm a gut driven player)

Vance I liked when I read him, but I can understand the case against him, so I'm unsure.

Connington hasn't done much, I got the impression he was arround a bit but not posting anything of value until just recently when called out on it - his cross posted case on Vance - which I can understand and has made me re-think about Vance.

Estermont, Fossaway and Reed I have good feeling for right now.

Who have I missed? I should probably be concerned about them?

eta response to Ashford.

He is once again very wishy washy. How is Connington not all over Frey right now?

So it's tied, up until Reed votes for Vance -

This is the only post of Vance's that I really don't like. It's a pretty useless defense, and even as a rusty player, Vance ought to be able to recognize that all of this means nothing to the rest of the players.

Otherwise, he does have a habit of using a lot of words to say not very much, which doesn't actually bother me much. I can't say I have any firm opinions of everyone today, so I'd end up saying I'm a little suspicious or not really suspicious or etc as well--except I know better.

As for Ashford, the only impression I have of him is mostly good, honestly. He seems like he's genuinely looking for the killers. I like Vance's activity levels better, but I'll take Ashford at his word that he'll be more involved, so I'd rather lynch Vance.

What I find interesting here is that I actually liked the Vance post that he's criticizing. Sounded pretty genuine and innocent to me. Yet Reed is using that as the major reason why he's voting for Vance (alongside his lack of suspicion for Ashford).

And then Frey switches his vote to Vance, dropping the hammer -

Vance I can see the case on him. Ashford has made given us some other opinions now (even if under pressure) and as we are not sure how much time left exactly I better not wait any longer.

Overall, the re-read gives me a bad impression of Connington, Frey, and Reed.

[House Ashford]

I have met Mina. She is a beautiful Elfin Goddess.

edit: damn it. that is a near likeness too.