Mafia 75 -- Revolution in Vanillaville

[House Ashford]

Just had a quick read of Tarth since I forgot him yesterday.

I really don't know what to think of you. So far you have had it easy.

So? Stop giving him a pass and press him. Stop being so wishy-washy. Do something useful.

[House Tyrell]

OK, this one is not going to be a reread. Perhaps I should, but I don't want to be this all day:

Fossoway - I sort of sensed a similar motive on day one in getting the game going, even if Fossoway insulted my own efforts.

Maybe I shouldn't base my entire (lack of) suspicions on this, but I feel pretty good about Fossoway. I wouldn't want to go the whole game not scrutinizing him at all, but seeing as I will most likely not be around tomorrow, that's your guys problem, not mine :P

[House Connington]

Ashford has done two things of note in the game. An attack on me, which was quickly backed away from when I defended myself:

Remove vote. I still don't like your play much, but that's not enough for voting, for some. :P

And the other is the 1-liner attack on Frey. Which I do generally agree with, Frey hasn't been great.

I am on the fence with Connie. I can see some inconsistencies in his posts and actions, but not enough to vote over others at the moment. Frey's lack of content and what he does have is so wishy-washy as to be not helpful put him at the top of my list. Frey

For somebody with 48 posts this isn't very impressive. Ashford.

I also agree with Tarth's earlier post about Reed. For someone who's been fairly active there's not a lot of scum hunting going on there. Except what Tarth says about Reed's Westerling reread I disagree with, it's not contentful at all.

[House Pommingham]

Do you actually have anything useful?

You had a luke warm review of Estermont today and that's it. We are coming down to the final 10 hours...sleeping time for Euros soon and then for the US. Last hours are likely to get quiet and spotty in posting. It's time to be serious.

Huh?!? :stunned:

:thumbsdown:

[House Tyrell]

Frey - I don't think he's done the best job of putting out cases, or even just voicing his suspicions, but I buy that he has other things on his mind.

It's the lingering fear that he's a low-posting, below-the-radar FM that has me still considering him suspicious, but I don't think that pattern really holds true anymore.

I don't think he should be given a free pass to end game if he continues his low-key posting style, but be wary of those who would put forward Frey as a lynch option at a critical juncture.

[House Connington]

I don't think he should be given a free pass to end game if he continues his low-key posting style, but be wary of those who would put forward Frey as a lynch option at a critical juncture.

Well in that respect it's now or never. Today is our last spare lynch, if we get it wrong it's be right or lose tomorrow.

Edit: Typo.

[House Tyrell]

Well in that respect it's now or never. Today is our last spare lynch, if we get it wrong it's be right or lose tomorrow.

Edit: Typo.

I think that's the wrong attitude to be taking about lynches to be frank. We should lynch the person who looks most guilty, not somebody whose an unknown variable. It was that attitude that almost lost the game for the innocents last game.

And as far as people who look guilty go, I'd actually put you, Connington above Frey on that.

Anyway, you never answered my question: Who other than Ashford do you suspect?

[House Reed]

But on the bright side, one of you can change your alt name and avatar.

So someone want to lend me some gold? I'd like to become Baby Jesus.

Since it has not been commented yet I better repeat my assumption as a question:

Do you think that an FM would forget his night target when he's listing his suspects?

Honestly? No. I do think this is WIFOMable to hell and back, but I think it's an unlikely thing for an FM to do. I let your question pass last night since I didn't feel well on Frey and didn't want to let him know that I counted this in his favor. I like his participation today a lot though, and feel a lot better saying in thread that I for one would rather not be on Frey's lynchmob.

One could have made exactly the same case on Reed at this point of the game. Not only didn't contribute anything so far and basiacally parroted Fossoway's thougts on Bolton. H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-E!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No, I don't think you could've made quite the same case on me at that point, and I think you're being misleading here. I don't think I ever claimed that Day 1 needed to be "tit-for-tat" and then followed up with a distinct lack of tit-for-tat. As I recall, Fossoway wasn't even suspicious of Bolton so much as he was pressing Bolton for his thoughts--that was my reading of Fossoway's vote anyway. YMMV.

I wonder if he ever read Estermont's case.

I did. I obviously didn't like it. Accuse me of scummy behavior as you will, but perhaps you could endeavor not to accuse me of not playing the game altogether? It'd be appreciated.

Trying to get input from a player is pseudo-contribution? :huh:

Yes.

Question: If you wondered about Westerling's change of mind regarding Bolton, why didn't you ask straight away, but waited until he was dead?

I didn't notice until the reread. Thus the reason I'd have used the point against him today rather than yesterday.

[House Connington]

I think that's the wrong attitude to be taking about lynches to be frank. We should lynch the person who looks most guilty, not somebody whose an unknown variable. It was that attitude that almost lost the game for the innocents last game.

Excuse me? It was you who said that he shouldn't be given a free pass for low content, I merely pointet out that if you really believe that it's now or never. But you've changed your mind on it very quickly.

Anyway, you never answered my question: Who other than Ashford do you suspect?

Reed. I mentioned it in my above post.

And Frey, it's not the low post count, it's the weak wishy washy posts when they're made. But Frey would be 3rd for me.

[House Tyrell]

double-posted, sorry.

[House Tyrell]

Yay! Only two more to go:

Reed - Had bad feelings day one/early day two, but they've somewhat dissipated due to his willingness to haiku. I know that sounds dumb, but it seemed like Reed was genuinely putting in an effort to get us our 900 points.

Anyway, last night (RL) I was willing to clear him on that alone, today not so much. I plan on doing a reread of him if I'm not today's lynch casualty.

[House Pommingham]

Bolton is a beast. Rereadwise.

Remove vote for now.

I have to reread him again. Not sure if I'm able to post a proper reread.

[House Connington]

Bolton is a beast. Rereadwise.

Remove vote for now.

I have to reread him again. Not sure if I'm able to post a proper reread.

In my opinion this is the wrong time of day to be removing votes without a replacement. I for one have to go to bed in an hour or so.

Estermont, Reed, Bolton, Tarth. Get voting.

[House Reed]

Side note - it still bugs me that Reed actually used that defense as a primary justification for voting Vance. We had completely different reactions to the defense, and it makes me wonder if he was just looking for a reason to cast his vote, without repeating cases made by other people and looking like a parrot.

Why not just ASK me why I think it was a horrible scummy post? As cute as it is of you to wave signal flags atop my post, you're better off directing your suspicions to me instead of presenting them to everyone else.

Since you brought it up a second time, here's the post, and I'll briefly say why it's downright awful imo. Because I'm going to throw a temper tantrum if you bring it up again, and I'd rather preempt that.

Ok... not sure what else I can really say to try to defend myself. If you lynch me it's not the worst choice in the world, at least I'm roleless, and apparently I haven't been very helpful to this point.

I'm evidently rusty at mafia. It's been a while since I played and I guess I should have thought things out more. I wanted to go into this trying to be as active as I could and as honest as I could. You might not agree with me on a lot of things but that's actually what I'm thinking. It may be murky but it's day 1, hard to feel confident.

This isn't how I play an FM - I'm much more cautious. I would have sat back and let people fight it out instead of getting myself so involved.

I'll give my thoughts on Ashford in a minute. Still in a "I don't know" category, not particularly suspcious, not particularly not. Probably going to vote him if the alternative is lynching me because at least I know I'm innocent. Ashford I have no idea.

1) He opens up with a line we've probably seen from every FM (that didn't try to role claim--no point to that in a CF game like this anyway) and to be fair plenty of townies before him. There's nothing here that's indicative of innocence. It's nothing more than playing the pity card, and I don't like it.

2) I don't like that he mentions he's rusty at mafia. I don't think it excuses him from anything, and that's all I see it as: an excuse and an empty one at that. Furthermore, to me it looked like he dropped that point in hopes that we'd let him live just to let an oldtimer play for longer for old time's sake. If he's played before, he ought to know that if he can't produce an alternative lynch, he's going to bite it.

3) If he wanted to come into this game with activity, then he has the time to spare to throw together an alternative case. He's his only CI, he shouldn't have let the axe fall on him as passively as he does in this post. I'd understand it if he had a lack of time, but if he's going to say he wanted to put in his all in the same breath, then this was not his all, and he should've known it.

4) No one knows how he would play an FM, and we can't get alt info from a CF, so saying that if he WERE an FM, he'd play in a different way is completely useless info to us. No amount of rustiness should've made him think that sort of point was anything. Worthless words from him yet again.

5) And Vance finished with saying that he has no idea on Ashford, again an unhelpful statement, and that he'd vote Ashford to stay alive. Like we didn't know that.

So all in all, the post was made in his defense yet offered nothing in his defense. I hated it.

[House Pommingham]

Ok, first weird post by Bolton:

I don't know about that. When I read the role description I pretty much took it as meaning that if they hit a FM they'd die. I didn't even consider the fact that we're playing in a small game. In other words I think it's just a simple question. Perhaps youWesterling are the one suspicious for trying to over-analyze what the perfect innocent reaction to the role description would be, no? :P

I can accept this as a half-joke case, but later Bolton states that he is serious about it. Is over-analyzing a sign of guilt?

A classic:

How's the catch up going Ashford?

Didn't do much himself and is pressing others to do some work. Reminds me of the late Ashford. <_<

Gets called by Fossoway for this.

I think it is here where he realizes that it's not possible to hide in this game:

I keep forgetting how small this game is. It feels like we're still waiting on more people to show when in reality pretty much everyone is participating. Has Frey shown up yet?

Um, isn't that sort of how you get conversation going? Jumping on things that stick out to you.

No opinion yet on Tarth.

I'm quoting this because I think it explains Bolton's way of thinking:

Your reaction to Westerling's accusation just rang a little false to me. Like for example, I'm taking a more adversarial tone right now in addressing people because I want them to react in a way that helps me get a better read on them.

You dismissed Westerling instead of trying to get your own read on him. That I find suspicious.

If we consider his own behaviour, it is consistent to what he is saying here. He gets defensive when being attacked, so it's not too surprising that he thinks Reed's dismissive behaviour is suspicious.

I'm around for a little while longer Vance.

I don't understand how you come to that conclusion about Fossoway based on a comment that's more of an adage about the game of mafia than anything that's going on in this game specifically.

In fact, I was going to call Fossoway out on it earlier because I thought it the type of non-controversial, non-game-at-hand focused statement that only FM would ever make :P

Bolded mine. This post is the strongest evidence that I found regarding Bolton's innocence. I doubt an evil player would add the bolded stuff. First, why didn't he call Fossoway earlier? That's rather strange, like the point that I made when asking Reed about mentioning his doubts about Westerling after Westerling was gone.

The difference is that Bolton stated this only shortly after he apparently had that thought (Reed had a lot of time to think about what to say), so it seems plausible that he had that thought and posted it only when someone else mentioned Fossoway's theory. I doubt that an FM can fake this line of thoughts, and this is the main reason why I removed my vote from Bolton. It looks genuine to me, even if I disagree with what he's saying.

ETA:

the ETA in this post also looks like he is putting thoughts into the game:

Nope, not seeing anything super-incriminating with Tarth atm. It's actually got me wondering why his names being thrown around as being particularly suspicious.

He's got a lot of RP, but his accusation of Estermont has more reasoning behind it than a lot of other accusations being bandied about.

OK, I'm off.

ETA: Oh, and yeah, it always pings my radar a bit when someone says they 'don't find so-and-so suspicious' this early in the game.

I know I'm not guilty but I don't come to the same conclusions Westerling does on Ashford at all. He's had little content so far.

Estermont I sort of lump into the same group as Fossoway and Vance at the moment. People who are (trying to look) helpful.

This just sounds that genuine to me.

[House Tyrell]

So yeah, I should probably mention this: I've been poisoned apparently. That or I've been bit by an arsenic-based life form.

Also, I am talking in my sleep right now.

Can I vote to go to night?

[House Targaryen]

Mina-mod will be working during the evening, so unfortunately, you won't have any more vote counts for a while.

It is day 2.

8 players remain: "Blue" Estermont, "Brown" Tarth, "Green" Connington, "Indigo" Frey, "Orange" Fossoway, "Red" Ashford, "Violet" Reed, "Yellow" Bolton.

5 votes are needed for a conviction or 4 to go to night.

2 votes for "Yellow" Bolton ( "Orange" Fossoway, "Indigo" Frey)

1 vote for "Indigo" Frey ( "Red" Ashford)

1 vote for "Red" Ashford ( "Green" Connington)

4 players have not voted: "Blue" Estermont, "Brown" Tarth, "Violet" Reed, "Yellow" Bolton.

[House Pommingham]

So yeah, I should probably mention this: I've been poisoned apparently. That or I've been bit by an arsenic-based life form.

Also, I am talking in my sleep right now.

Can I vote to go to night?

Pardon? :stunned:

[House Reed]

Can I vote to go to night?

Not without explaining why, no.

[House Tyrell]

'Cause I'm either getting super-powers or dying in my sleep.

Don't ask me... I'm as confused as you are :P