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The Judging Eye VIII (spoilers)

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Since the previous thread is about to get locked any post now, I figured I'd start up the new one.

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Eight already? Well I'm sure we'll get at least one more done before WLW comes out. Then we can start a WLW 1 thread. I can see the subtitle already: Other threads are for lesser souls.

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I approve of the custom title.

I'm just gonna throw this out here, Traveler is Cnaiur. The mystery Schoolman puzzles me, however.

The Traveler is described as having a gravely officer's bawl of a voice, or something like that. It probably fits. The one other clue though, is that the Traveler remarks that they respond "so much like animals." I think it's italicized, which makes it seem very Dunyainesque. That makes me think of Kayutas again which has been discussed in the past. But I also wonder if Kosoter wouldn't totally recognize Kayutas and they don't seem to know the Traveler. But then again, even if he looks a lot like his father, The Captain wouldn't have seen him since he was much younger if ever. So on second though, I don't think he would know Kayutas on sight.

ETA: Or it's Kellhus himself and he's been "travelling" via teleportation.

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The Traveler is described as having a gravely officer's bawl of a voice, or something like that. It probably fits. The one other clue though, is that the Traveler remarks that they respond "so much like animals." I think it's italicized, which makes it seem very Dunyainesque. That makes me think of Kayutas again which has been discussed in the past. But I also wonder if Kosoter wouldn't totally recognize Kayutas and they don't seem to know the Traveler. But then again, even if he looks a lot like his father, The Captain wouldn't have seen him since he was much younger if ever. So on second though, I don't think he would know Kayutas on sight.

ETA: Or it's Kellhus himself and he's been "travelling" via teleportation.

He's clearly a perceptive fellow, noticing a lot about the scalpers and their thinking. And very definitely dismissive or superior feeling to Men. Cnauir might fit...wouldn't Ironsoul recognize Cnauir though? Do we rule out anyone Ironsoul would recognize? or do we just assume he would have no reaction, taciturn bastard that he is?

Other clues: he knows the new customs of the 3 seas, that it would be a grave offense not to bow to Kosoter. For some reason I don't see Cnauir doing that so willingly.

More important than who the traveller is, is who 'we' are ("We want you.") Would Kellhus be referred to as 'we'? Seems unlikely. And though I guess the whole apparat could be referred to as such, people are speculating that this is a special secret gambit by Kellhus.

I'm not ruling out a previously unhighlighted faction.

As for Cleric, just because Pat thinks we'll be surprised, why does that mean it's a nonman we know? After all this spec, wouldn't someone we know NOT be a surprise?

In any case, Cleric's erraticism seems so...genuine. For some reason I trust that he's crazy, that even if he's someone Name we know that there's no way he could be organized enough to be running some secret plan.

Plus I still think Mekeritrig would have a scar on his chin.

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So Cnaiur would travel way out into the wastes, be recognized (and respected) by Kosoter (and the Nansur all thought Cnaiur was a total dumbass, if you recall), and then he happily does the bidding of Kellhus and also happily sets up Akka?

Sorry, don't buy it. Why would Kellhus use such an unreliable agent to do his bidding? Is Kellhus going to say 'okay, but really - THIS time is the last time that you fuck with me. I mean it!'

Don't buy it. If that's the case it's pretty asinine.

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traveler could always be Moe, working against Kell by sending Akka to Ishual. :-p

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Sorry, don't buy it. Why would Kellhus use such an unreliable agent to do his bidding? Is Kellhus going to say 'okay, but really - THIS time is the last time that you fuck with me. I mean it!'

Did I miss something where the traveler is confirmed to be working for Kellhus? I don't really think it's Cnauir, but if it is, the 'we' would be the Consult.

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I thought Kosoter was Ainoni and I never said Cnaiur was working for Kellhus. At the end of TTT, he seems completely insane and since he has killed Moe, aimless. All he has is Serwe, the skin spy. I doubt it's him but who knows? He's just one of the few possibilities given the words of the prologue. Who else besides Kellhus' bunch, Cnaiur, and maybe some of the Consult or Nonmen think of people in that manner?

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Oh right, the traveler understands Ainoni. I think that straw breaks the Cnauir theory's back.

I agree, it was only a crackpot theory anyway. I think Cnaiur's return will be much better anyway, if he does come back.

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Cnaiur survived but turned to farming. He really likes putting seed in the ground. :thumbsup:

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When someone suggested Cnaiur I thought it was only under the premise that he's working for The Consult or someone other than Kellhus. I doubt it's Cnaiur, and even though I think it's possible it's a previously unknown faction, but I think an agent of Kellhus remains by far the most likely.

Great point about how Mek would have a scar.

Heh, how many more books without Cnaiur or Moe would we need to see the theories that they could still be alive finally be put to rest?

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Heh, how many more books without Cnaiur or Moe would we need to see the theories that they could still be alive finally be put to rest?

Cnauir lives damnit!

In my heart.

I do feel sad though. He was my best buddy until he totally lost his mind halfway through TWP.

Totally not equivalent to Moe though, who we saw die onscreen. Cnauir just thought about doing something he'd already lived through once.

Cnaiur survived but turned to farming. He really likes putting seed in the ground. :thumbsup:

:lol:

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Lol @ Rhamadanth.

Cnaiur is finished, dead to this fiction. No one is more sad of this than I - perhaps, aimless. The breaker of horses and men, my girl is just reading the PON for the first time and TDTCB has jokingly become called "CNAIUR!" between us. Those last couple hundred pages of that book are fucking gold. Probably one of the best fantasy sequences ever.

As for Traveler. That prologue has always made me think Consult or Dunyain.

However, the likelihood remains... unknown.

I don't think it's Kellhus or his brood. I don't think the Consult know or care about Achamian anymore, no longer Mandate or Holy Tutor. I'm reading all kinds of Nonmen ideas, which have no valid determination.

It makes me think about Bakker's assertion of another Dunyain in the series, implied a full-blooded female.

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Lol @ Rhamadanth.

Cnaiur is finished, dead to this fiction. No one is more sad of this than I - perhaps, aimless. The breaker of horses and men, my girl is just reading the PON for the first time and TDTCB has jokingly become called "CNAIUR!" between us. Those last couple hundred pages of that book are fucking gold. Probably one of the best fantasy sequences ever.

Yeah, Cnaiur and Conphas are just larger than life characters. There was a void left by them that hasn't been filled in TJE. The Captain and Cleric are intriguing and enigmatic characters in their own right, but they aren't as entertaining as Cnaiur and Conphas.

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I was just kicking around the Malazan and SFF World forums, having searched google for anything new White Luck Warrior.

Pat's been leaking comments everywhere so I thought I'd consolidate two of the juicier ones here.

- Kellhus taught Serwa and the School of Witches the Gnosis - I feel that was more controversy than accepted.

- Pat insinuated that things are not all gravy for Kellhus, something along the lines of . . . if Kellhus survives the Ordeal.

It keeps being suggested that Kellhus' kids play a huge role in WLW too.

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I was just kicking around the Malazan and SFF World forums, having searched google for anything new White Luck Warrior.

Pat's been leaking comments everywhere so I thought I'd consolidate two of the juicier ones here.

- Kellhus taught Serwa and the School of Witches the Gnosis - I feel that was more controversy than accepted.

- ....................

Hey, now that is interesting. Of course it makes sense for a new school to be taught the Gnosis (especially as Seswatha himself warned that the Gnosis would one day have to be shared). No doubt the elders of all the Schools including the Mandate ground their teeth.

Mind you, the one time we saw a witch cast a spell in The Judging Eye was the time that the Yatwer woman (Psammateri?) turned off a spy that had infiltrated their meeting and the spell conjured the image of a cyclopean wall (an analogy rather than an essence?).

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Interested to learn more about the witches. Early in TDCTCB witches are described as being able to 'harness the wild energies asleep in earth, animal, and tree'. Seperate from the sorcerers 'whose assertions were decrees'. The same passage declaims that some priests can call into the Outside, moving the gods who move men. I don't know which bracket Psamemtergibberishi (the Yatwer preistess) falls under.

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I get why there could be an Incariol/Iscariot thing, but are you just deriving that from the similarity in names + Nin'janjin is a betrayer?

Basically, yes. Also Scott did such things before - for example Golgotterath or Inri Sejenus, which makes name Incariol suspicous.

Also, correct me if i'm wrong, but does Su'juroit get mentioned in TTT? Does Akka lie when Kellhus asks if anyone has ever done it before? If that's right, I wonder if Kellhus saw the lie in Akka. Even if he did I don't know how much that matters.

Yes, Achamian thinks at some point that he lied to Kellhus (I don't have book at ahnd, so I can't quote page), because using two unutterals was considered extremely dangerous, since Su'jurot supposedly went insane. Considering all Non-men are supposedly insane at this point, I don't think it would hamper him much.

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Yes, Achamian thinks at some point that he lied to Kellhus (I don't have book at ahnd, so I can't quote page), because using two unutterals was considered extremely dangerous, since Su'jurot supposedly went insane. Considering all Non-men are supposedly insane at this point, I don't think it would hamper him much.

This ties to my theory that sorcery gradually drives one insane, but normally the time required is so long that humans and mortal Nonmen die before it gets really noticeable. After the Nonmen became immortal, the problem gradually became obvious. I think there are subtle hints that some mortal sorcerers are affected by the early stages of the Erratic condition too.

I think Su'juroit was the very first Erratic. The idea is that like two-inutteral sorcery is much more potent than normal sorcery, it also drives one insane much faster. Now Kellhus is going down that path.

I think the process continues in the Outside until the dead sorcerer's original personality and memories are completely gone, and that is why the demons (which the sorcerers become) are so sadistic and evil.

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