Dragon Age 2

[Sariel]

Little strategy is perhaps somewhat harsh. However, there would've been a lot more strategy involved if enemies hadn't magically appeared just behind Anders and Varric without having to pass through the deadly bottleneck that is my 2H Warrior and Isabella.

I just don't understand what they were thinking. If anything, this can be likened to the level scaling of Oblivion in how absurdly stupid it is.

There was a lot more strategy with Hawke the mage I think. Force Magic opened for some nifty solutions to waves that I lacked a counter for at the time.

[Tobin]

There was a lot more strategy with Hawke the mage I think. Force Magic opened for some nifty solutions to waves that I lacked a counter for at the time.

So you're saying that the other classes are a cheesey mode? ;)

Yes, Force Mage is kinda awesome.

I was on the fence about spec'ing in it - but after I did, stuff got more...fun...

The spell cooldown is really wonky (in general) though - in DAO I had to be strategic about where I cast my 'crushing prison' because the cooldown practically guaranteed that I'd only get one chance at it.

Last night I saw Merril sling it twice in the same fight - which caught me off guard (i don't have it on my second mage yet).

Just seems strange - its like they switched the healing and damaging cooldowns.

I mostly used the Force blast to interrupt casters since the knockback effect could push mobs out of AOE. Fist of the Maker is more useful for clusters, except for when you're dealing with elementals or golums.

I'm playing through much slower this time and noticing the differences between my two mages. The encounter with the elf and the former WW on the Wounded Coast? Snarky Mage: Had to fight, the elf wasn't having any of my mercy talk.

Nice Mage: (got a new response option) shamed the elf into walking away peacefully.

Romance Report!

Might get my angry sexin' with Fenris earlier than I expected...

Was playing my Nice Mage and within two quests I had racked up +35 to rivalry. :stunned:

I thought I was doing good too! He can be so moody, -_-

[Tobin]

Apparently, if you let Alistair storm off after recruiting Loghain - he shows up as a drunk in the Hanged Man, :cheers: .

I guess I know which import I'll be playing next...

[Odie]

Apparently, if you let Alistair storm off after recruiting Loghain - he shows up as a drunk in the Hanged Man, :cheers: .

I guess I know which import I'll be playing next...

I figured as much :unsure:

Is it as sad and heartbreaking as I'm expecting it to be?

[haLobEnder]

I'm really curious, for those of you who don't think the writing in this game matches the quality of writing seen in DA:O and other Bioware games, in what ways do you feel that's the case?

I keep hearing people say this, but it always seems to be thrown out as a statement of fact without elaboration. As someone who liked many aspects of the writing, I take it kind of personally -- am I just some ignorant philistine who will gobble up whatever the writers throw at me?

[Max the Mostly Mediocre]

I don't know, are you?

Roll a mage, then giggle constantly at the way you can, uh, perform blood magic on the street without anyone noticing or impacting the plot at all. Alternatively, play through act 3 then go back to DA:O and compare and contrast the way magic, mages, and templars are dealt with.

ETA: Actually, tell you what, just read this.

[Fez]

I don't know, are you?

Roll a mage, then giggle constantly at the way you can, uh, perform blood magic on the street without anyone noticing or impacting the plot at all. Alternatively, play through act 3 then go back to DA:O and compare and contrast the way magic, mages, and templars are dealt with.

Not really fair to use gameplay/story segregation as an example of poor writing.

[Galactus]

I'm really curious, for those of you who don't think the writing in this game matches the quality of writing seen in DA:O and other Bioware games, in what ways do you feel that's the case?

I keep hearing people say this, but it always seems to be thrown out as a statement of fact without elaboration. As someone who liked many aspects of the writing, I take it kind of personally -- am I just some ignorant philistine who will gobble up whatever the writers throw at me?

I'd actually say the writing *in general* is slightly better than DAO. It'sjust a bit buggy and the gameplay is very sloppily integrated with it.

[Max the Mostly Mediocre]

Not really fair to use gameplay/story segregation as an example of poor writing.

Why not?

[haLobEnder]

I don't know, are you?

Roll a mage, then giggle constantly at the way you can, uh, perform blood magic on the street without anyone noticing or impacting the plot at all. Alternatively, play through act 3 then go back to DA:O and compare and contrast the way magic, mages, and templars are dealt with.

ETA: Actually, tell you what, just read this.

I'm pretty sure it's possible to do the exact same thing in DA:O and no one raised an eyebrow then. Inconsistencies like that are nothing new to videogame story telling -- I can't tell you how many times I've defeated a boss in ranged combat, only to have a cutscene show you killing him in melee, or, on that note, how realistic is it for one person to be killing hoards and hoards of bad guys in the first place?

There's always been a divide between your gameplay experience and the story itself. It's something of an understood limitation of the medium.

To me, the point you brought up and the points mentioned in the article seem to be a crimes of omission not actual reflections on the storytelling that's there.

[Max the Mostly Mediocre]

There's always been a divide between your gameplay experience and the story itself. It's something of an understood limitation of the medium.

So you did read the article, but you didn't read the part about the cowled wizards? Or...you did read the article, and think that doesn't matter? Or what? They did it right once, we can't expect them to do it right again when they have another decade of experience?

I'd actually say the writing *in general* is slightly better than DAO. It'sjust a bit buggy and the gameplay is very sloppily integrated with it.

I would probably agree with this, but note that the handling of magic is substantially inferior, and not just due to the lack of gameplay integration, and that Act 3's main plot is terribad.

[emberling]

It only really breaks down - or even comes close to breaking down - if you play a mage. I played once as a rogue and have almost completed it as a mage, and the absurdities were almost entirely confined to the mage playthrough (ignoring the asinine nitpicks that only someone looking for faults might complain about, like Merrill's hovel being supposedly too big)

The only real complaint I had of this nature as a rogue was that there are far too many incidents where I wanted to be able to put down my weapon and say 'Stop, why are you attacking me? I'm on your side!' but the game inexplicably forces me to cut a bloody path through armies of the people I want to help before I'm able to offer my services to their leader.

What I find really interesting about the visual aspects of being an apostate in hiding is that all of the mage staff designs are camouflaged as either bare walking sticks or spears/polearms - but it's as if the people who designed and modeled it didn't even mention it to the animators, and the characters carry them with no regard to making them look like anything but an enormous beacon to the friendly neighborhood templar.

[haLobEnder]

So you did read the article, but you didn't read the part about the cowled wizards? Or...you did read the article, and think that doesn't matter? Or what? They did it right once, we can't expect them to do it right again when they have another decade of experience?

It's not that I disagree with anything that was said, it's that through experience I've come to expect a certain amount of plot holes in video games, RPGs in particular. 'Tis the nature of the beast.

I think the writer of that article is looking at it from the perspective of what an ideal video game would do, not from the perspective of where video games are right now; We're not getting the halodeck anytime soon.

Yes, as far as magic's concerned Baldur's Gate 2 did have a pretty good solution, but even there they had to conceive of a way out that would permanently deal with the issue and allow you to get on with the main plot. From an immersion perspective, it would be great if magic use in DA2 had more consequences, but at what point does that mean they'd have to tell an entirely different story for mages?

[Tobin]

I figured as much :unsure:

Is it as sad and heartbreaking as I'm expecting it to be?

Yes.

The conversation is only one or two lines, I was hoping for a little more.

He says different things if you keep clicking on him - some funny, some tragic, :frown5:

Take Anders with you when you talk to him.

As for the 'Blood magic in town!' break with reality, it is something that existed in both games.

Hells, you could spec Wynne in Blood Magic and smirk at the irony of her railing against it while she's blood boiling darkspawn.

I agree that the 'walking stick' is a bit much to expect templars to ignore - especially someone like Cullen, who we know is experienced with mages.

But even he blatantly to your face ignores the fact you're an apostate until almost the very end.

I'm part way through my second mage game and now a rogue game (different DAO imports).

Something that is interesting is that both my first mage and my rogue are 'snarky' - and most events have gone pretty much the same.

My 'nice' mage though, has had different options when faced with some surprises.

The /random confrontation with the Daelish Elves and the former Werewolf on the Wounded Coast?

Snarky - Mage/Rogue = fight

Nice - Mage = Shamed the Elf into walking away peacefully.

My Snarky characters didn't even get a chance to settle things without bloodspillage.

[Galactus]

There IS actually a coded instance in DAO where blood magic would matter (but it's not actually "activaed" in-game) if you were a blood mage when you finished te Circle Tower Wynne was supposed to discose this, making you fight both Irving and Gregoir and leaving you an army short for thefinal battle.

[Sariel]

Also, walking around as an apostate is perfectly fine when you're a gray warden. Using magic to gut hordes of bandits in the middle of a templar infested city in broad daylight without any sort of consequence felt a little dumb. There's a lot of talk of the templars being after you as a mage, but there's no signs of this in game. A few encounters with Templars would've been all that's needed really.

[Deluge]

I don't think DA2 was bad, or even worse than Origins. I think they could have done a lot better, and it really shows.

Random thought: DA3 is almost certainly going to be set in Orlais, but for DA4, I really would like it to take place in Tevinter. Start the player off as a slave, and give them the choice of resisting or buying into the horrifying Tevinter system. I think that could have the potential of providing some truly amazing narrative, too. Hell, that would give the option of having a player character from any of the four races, since a Qunari (or kossith, I guess) character could be a prisoner of war. This could be done without resorting to origin stories, which they seem to be moving away from.

[emberling]

I don't think DA2 was bad, or even worse than Origins. I think they could have done a lot better, and it really shows.

I haven't been following the development of the game or anything, so I have no idea whether there has been any word from Bioware on this, but I sort of have this scenario in my mind that fits the available data surprisingly well (in a similar manner to, say, R+L=J)...

It seems to me that the entire format and story structure of the game - framed narrative, more motion in time than in place, all that - could easily have come from a brainstorming session on how to produce an epic fantasy RPG in the least time possible, by integrating reuse of assets into its very nature. Now, I'm not saying that's bad - in fact, if it's true, it's bloody brilliant. Faster development of an equal quality product is good for everyone, and DA2's structure is unique, new, and interesting.

But some of the same decisions that make me suspect that 'rapid development' was the original priority demonstrate that there was probably a quality tradeoff, that they pushed it a little too fast and missed out on a lot of polish that grates on some people. For instance, if 'tell a story of a city over 10 years' was the original concept, or even 'PC rises to power in a city over 10 years,' one would expect the city in each act to look somewhat different. If we weren't told the timeline, we'd probably guess that it took place over weeks. Kirkwall doesn't change at all during the 6 years we're running freely around it, and there's really no excuse for this other than that it was judged to take more development time than Bioware wanted to spend. And it's very possible that they're right - I don't think it would have added that much to the game. But if the year-spanning story was the primary concept, it would surely have made the cut, because they would have started with it in mind and by the time anyone suggested removing it it would be just as much dev time to re-sync the acts as it would to keep them distinct.

[Kouran]

I went back and played through Awakening this weekend. Damn if the game play, UI, character creation and inventory aren't significantly better in DAO. I do like the better story telling of DA2 dont get me wrong, but I dont understand totally reinventing the wheel when it comes to character talent tree's, inventory and UI.

Of the things that I wish had been done differently in DA2, I really wish that Bioware had worked on presenting the impact of the effects in game.

I mean you journey to the deep roads and loot a tiag, thats apparently smaller than low town, yet has enough money to buy you into the nobility, but where is the impact of that much sudden wealth in Kirkwall? Then you put down the Qunari in act two, but where is the burned out wreckage of the city, they just swept the streets and all was well? Just a few small things reflecting the impact of previous sections of the game would have gone a long way toward impoving the play through experience.

[Noroldis]

On a scale of 0 to 10, with 0 being "truckful of stinking crap" and 10 being "best game ever!" how would you people rate Dragon Age 2? And if you're feeling wordy, what are its pros and cons in your opinion?