How good are the unsullied?

[Talleyrand]

In ASoS we have Jorah and the slavers calling them the greatest warriors in the world. But from the Slavers it could just be them bigging up their stock and Jorah's only heard of them by reputation.

So i was wondering how good do the rest of you think the Unsullied are and how well would they fare against the armies of Westeros?

[Kaitscralt]

Good enough so that 3,000 of them could defeat a 40,000 man khalasar, if the story is true.

However, I think that like the Dothraki, the Unsullied would be over-confident of their abilities against armored soldiers and possibly be massacred in an open field against arrow volleys.

[Fusian]

Just to make it easier for Dany, I think they're likely live up to their reputation. The little we've seen of them so far don't show case that much, and they've yet to fight knights. I do think they could be a match though, enough to maximize death on both sides so GRRM can kill off as many characters as he likes.

[Free Northman]

They don't have balls. How good can they be?

[Talleyrand]

Good enough so that 3,000 of them could defeat a 40,000 man khalasar, if the story is true.

However, I think that like the Dothraki, the Unsullied would be over-confident of their abilities against armored soldiers and possibly be massacred in an open field against arrow volleys.

Do they even have enough emotion to be confident?

[Toe]

It is stated that they will wear heavier armor if it is provided. However, historically the successful weapon against knights have been pikes. Maybe something for Tyrion to introduce? They are already very disciplined which is a requirement for pikes.

[Free Northman]

Personally I think Gregor Clegane would cut swathes through them like Druss the Legend unleashing Snaga amongst the Nadir. For those who understand what I just said, I reckon these "boys" would not last two minutes against men like the Hound, Arthur Dayne, the Greatjon or Victarion Greyjoy.

But then, this is Martin's world, so if he wants them to be unbeatable, he will MAKE them unbeatable.

[Talleyrand]

Personally I think Gregor Clegane would cut swathes through them like Druss the Legend unleashing Snaga amongst the Nadir. For those who understand what I just said, I reckon these "boys" would not last two minutes against men like the Hound, Arthur Dayne, the Greatjon or Victarion Greyjoy.

But then, this is Martin's world, so if he wants them to be unbeatable, he will MAKE them unbeatable.

I think Gregor Clegane would be speared in the stomach before he got close. But then i also feel that Druss and probably even Seiben could kills half the famous knights of Westeros

[JoaKing]

My guess is that Martin was inspired from Spartans to create the Unsullied. So yes they are THAT good.

[Talleyrand]

My guess is that Martin was inspired from Spartans to create the Unsullied. So yes they are THAT good.

Spartans weren't as great as they're chalked up as. Sacred Band of Thebes were better. I always thought it was a mix of Spartans and Mamlukes he based them on

[Hazl]

In one-on-one combat, I agree that a Westerosi knight would take down an unsullied man. It's the complete robot-like discipline of the unsullied that make them a force to be reckoned with in large numbers. They'd be great, as was said above, for pikes and shield walls, and I think far more suitable for fighting Westorosi troops than the Dothraki are. Don't forget that the number of knights in an army seems to usually stay at around 5-10% of the men - so 10,000 Westerosi versus 10,000 unsullied would probably mean 500-1,000 armored lances, fighting against walls of pikes (if implemented), and 9,000+ half-trained militia. Remember that most troops in Westeros are conscripts, there are very few professional soldiers, whereas the unsullied are made for one thing and one thing only, which is war.

I'd take the unsullied any time. In open battle, that is. Especially if they're led by dragons.

[Gurkhal]

I also think that while the Unsullied may have a hyped reputation, they are still a formidable infantry force. And Westerosi cavalry seems to have some probolem with their own militia infantry when these have formed up, so I wouldn't expect that they will have an easy time against real professional infantry formed to withstand a cavalry charge.

[Snowy89]

Spartans weren't as great as they're chalked up as. Sacred Band of Thebes were better. I always thought it was a mix of Spartans and Mamlukes he based them on

Spartans were good because they were professional soldiers unlike most of the hoplites back in ancient greece.

Also because they had cohesive fighting groops, for example their armies were divided in independent groops called lochos/lokhos(something like this), groops of about 100 men.

This gave them superior maneuvrability in battle, part of their succes in the early days.

[iamthedave]

Spartans weren't as great as they're chalked up as. Sacred Band of Thebes were better. I always thought it was a mix of Spartans and Mamlukes he based them on

It's fact that the spartans absolutely dominated war during that period. They lost a sum total of two major battles if the historical record's to be believed, and one of them led to the effective end of their power.

I'm pretty sure the unsullied are based on the spartans.

As to how good they are? Good enough. I'm sure we'll see them tested in battle at some point in ADWD; surely those old Dothraki enemies will rear their ugly heads again? I do believe Dany has a few instances of bloody vengeance to sort out before she leaves...

[Free Northman]

I'd be interested to know how a Roman legion - which was so disciplined that 4000 legionaries defeated Gallic barbarian hordes 10 times their number - would do against European knights that reached their peak about a 1000 years after the Legions faded from history.

Surely the knights were much more formidable than the barbarian hordes of Vercingetorix's time. To me the Unsullied are a Roman legion, and the Westerosi knights are the armies of Richard the Lionheart.

Would the Roman discipline be as effective against armored knights as it was against unwashed, fur-clad primitives?

I wonder.

[Grazdan]

I think they're a very good.. above average backbone type of soldier. They would be the unmovable rock in dany's army, so I don't think she has any worries there. Without some cavalry/archer support tho they will have a hard time in westeros.

[Talleyrand]

It's fact that the spartans absolutely dominated war during that period. They lost a sum total of two major battles if the historical record's to be believed, and one of them led to the effective end of their power.

I'm pretty sure the unsullied are based on the spartans.

As to how good they are? Good enough. I'm sure we'll see them tested in battle at some point in ADWD; surely those old Dothraki enemies will rear their ugly heads again? I do believe Dany has a few instances of bloody vengeance to sort out before she leaves...

Two? They lost at least Three against Thebes in the Boeotian War and at least another eight in the Peloponnesian war when they fought directly against Athens i.e not through their allies.

But that wasn't my point. I'm not denying that they were good, which they were. It's just that like Samurai they have been romanticized and turned into unstoppable machines of death and honour

[Talleyrand]

I'd be interested to know how a Roman legion - which was so disciplined that 4000 legionaries defeated Gallic barbarian hordes 10 times their number - would do against European knights that reached their peak about a 1000 years after the Legions faded from history.

Surely the knights were much more formidable than the barbarian hordes of Vercingetorix's time. To me the Unsullied are a Roman legion, and the Westerosi knights are the armies of Richard the Lionheart.

Would the Roman discipline be as effective against armored knights as it was against unwashed, fur-clad primitives?

I wonder.

I think that the Infantry of any Westerosi army would be destroyed by a Roman army. With Knights i'm not sure. Not all horses would be willing to charge straight into a wall of shields but if they did, would it smash the roman line? Also IIRC Horse plate doesn't exist yet or isn't used widely in Westeros so a few barrages of Javelins could do hell to a Horse charge

[Kittyhat]

In one-on-one combat, I agree that a Westerosi knight would take down an unsullied man. It's the complete robot-like discipline of the unsullied that make them a force to be reckoned with in large numbers. They'd be great, as was said above, for pikes and shield walls, and I think far more suitable for fighting Westorosi troops than the Dothraki are. Don't forget that the number of knights in an army seems to usually stay at around 5-10% of the men - so 10,000 Westerosi versus 10,000 unsullied would probably mean 500-1,000 armored lances, fighting against walls of pikes (if implemented), and 9,000+ half-trained militia. Remember that most troops in Westeros are conscripts, there are very few professional soldiers, whereas the unsullied are made for one thing and one thing only, which is war.

I'd take the unsullied any time. In open battle, that is. Especially if they're led by dragons.

This. Just ... this.

I wouldn't pick from the Unsullied if I needed someone to fight a duel on my behalf, but I'd choose the Unsullied collectively as a fighting force any day.

[Chirios]

d be interested to know how a Roman legion - which was so disciplined that 4000 legionaries defeated Gallic barbarian hordes 10 times their number - would do against European knights that reached their peak about a 1000 years after the Legions faded from history.

Surely the knights were much more formidable than the barbarian hordes of Vercingetorix's time. To me the Unsullied are a Roman legion, and the Westerosi knights are the armies of Richard the Lionheart.

Would the Roman discipline be as effective against armored knights as it was against unwashed, fur-clad primitives?

I wonder.

Depends on which Roman legion you're talking about. Republic legion or Empire legion? Republic legion probably wouldn't do as well as the Empire legion, because Republic legions were mostly conscripts and militia. Empire legion was a standing army, professional, so they'd do better.

It also depends on what weapons they're using and who's leading them. If they're using spears, or pikes, the Westerosi knights would have a hard time getting their horses to charge, and if they did, if they were stupid enough to charge head on into a wall of spears they'd deserve the pointy death that was waiting for them. No, you use cavalry to attack the sides of the formation, or to sweep round behind and do a hammer and spear, but some Westerosi knights wouldn't know that, being, as they are, used to fighting against villagers with rakes and not professional troops.