A Sanitised (PG) Game of Thrones?

[The Anti-Targ]

There's been more than a few people say that the sex and violence is a bit rich for their blood, but they put up with it because the story is so great. But what if you could legally make your own PG version of the show?

I saw this interesting comment in the comments section of the latest Inside TV article about GoT ep 6 ratings:

I agreed that the show has too much soft porn and graphic violence, but the story and the plot are incredibly good. I am making a special cut with [deleted name of software] for my wife who loved the show but can’t stand all the porn and violence. I was able to cut lots of scenes without affecting the story at all.

Now this is a feature I'd love to see on the Blu-ray: set your sex/violence preferences then hit play. R - for the unedited broadcast version; M - for genital, decapitation and delimbification free version; PG for virtually nudity free and bloodless version.

I'm certain it's technically possible to do this on the official DVD/Blu-ray release. And like this person says, you can eliminate a lot of the explicit material without significantly affecting the story. My mother-in-law really liked reading the books, but the show is way way way to explicit for her senisibilities. She would never watch the broadcast version, but I'm certain she'd watch a PG version, and I'm pretty sure she'd watch a M version.

[spitsphyre]

I think it would be incredibly easy to film this show without sexualizing all of the nudity (sounds weird but it IS possible) and adding more tender sex as opposed to the pornographic sex. Yes, there WAS a ton of sex and violence in the books but the sex at least was presented much differently than it's shown in the show.

[Hyper]

At some point in the future, I'm sure there will be a cut of GOT that is more family friendly. Even "the Sopranos", for example, has been syndicated on basic cable, and I'm sure that required some cuts.

Making those cuts should not be too difficult. They might even have made alternate camera coverage to be prepared for it in important scenes that cannot easily be cut. (For example, the 1st episode Viserys/Dany bath scene might need other angles, while the 7th episode Littlefinger 'sexposition' scene can be cut completely)

[Eponine]

IMO a PG-13 edit could easily be made that would satisfy those who have already read the books, as several of the sex scenes are additional scenes - a PG rated cut would end up taking out too many important parts for most viewers, but could still be done by someone who was going to be around to explain the scenes.

For the book reader, the Tyrion and whores introduction could mostly be cut, and Dany's wedding night could end before she's bent over crying as it's still obvious she's upset. It's necessary to show Jaime/Cersei to some degree, but the thrusting could be cut out. The reader wouldn't need the Theon, Viserys or Littlefinger exposition. Ser Hugh's death could be implied by his laying on the ground and Sansa and Arya's expressions without the burbling throat blood. Although there would be a small lack of continuity, could cut from where Bronn brings his sword down and pick up where he kicks Ser Whatshisname through the moon door and leaven out the blood entirely. And so on.

The sex and violence doesn't bother me, but I think that some of the added exposition sex scenes go on WAY TOO LONG when they could be following an actual story line, so a PG-13 edit probably wouldn't take away from my enjoyment of the show.

[iheartseverus]

What an interesting idea! LOL, if the scissors were mine, I'd snip Random Ros right and her merry exploits out of the GoT universe. Then, I'd be perfectly happy with the rest.

Again, interesting idea..

[The Anti-Targ]

The sex and violence doesn't bother me, but I think that some of the added exposition sex scenes go on WAY TOO LONG when they could be following an actual story line, so a PG-13 edit probably wouldn't take away from my enjoyment of the show.

Doesn't bother me either, in the prudish sense. What does bother me is that the Ros sexposition scene has turned the sexual content into an object of mirth, which in the end doesn't do the show any favours. I don't think it was their intent for the sex/nudity to become a source of comic relief for the show, so the fact that it has tells me they got it wrong. If they did mean it to be comic relief, then job well done I guess.

I think the violence hasn't reached the Monty Python level yet and I hope it stays that way.

[Queen of Everything]

I love the idea, but how would one portray the Lannister incest...?

[Xenophon]

I love the idea, but how would one portray the Lannister incest...?

Do you mean only using existing footage? Maybe just pick up after they've already stopped humping in the scene where Bran sees them. Jaime's "the war for Cersei's cunt" can become "the war for Cersei" You don't actually need to have it fully spelled out to figure out what's going on.

[Hyper]

Of course, cutting out many things sort of misses the point - GOT *is* a show for adults, based on very mature/adult source material. While a little bit of cutting might be OK, at some point you lose a lot of the themes. It IS a story about incest, rape, and violence. That should not be skimmed over.

GRRM did not set out to write a PG-13 kiddie-story.

[Queen of Everything]

Do you mean only using existing footage? Maybe just pick up after they've already stopped humping in the scene where Bran sees them. Jaime's "the war for Cersei's cunt" can become "the war for Cersei" You don't actually need to have it fully spelled out to figure out what's going on.

Oh, I just meant in general.

I figured it would be okay using just existing footage, because on second thought, we'd be able to figure it out after Ned's "dark of hair" Baratheon record scene, really. We only need one or two hints before that. Then when the big reveal comes and Cersei admits it, it's right out there.

But realize that incest is really taboo -- even most R-rated shows and films refuse to go there.

[iheartseverus]

Oh, I just meant in general.

I figured it would be okay using just existing footage, because on second thought, we'd be able to figure it out after Ned's "dark of hair" Baratheon record scene, really. We only need one or two hints before that. Then when the big reveal comes and Cersei admits it, it's right out there.

But realize that incest is really taboo -- even most R-rated shows and films refuse to go there.

I think its not the concepts that the viewers are negatively reacting to--concepts like incest, child slavery, marital rape, etc. Those are integral parts of this story and the story's viewers are adults and not squeamish eek-ers. Rather, its HBO's shoveling of flat-out, on-screen pornography . Sucking, slurping, humping, squealing, boobie and dick-jiggling porn for the sake of porn. Porn for the sake of ratings. Porn for the sake of buzz. Porn for the sake of HBO's bottom line profits. For some viewers, me included, this blatant trash just intrudes on my beloved ASoIaF saga. 17-yr old boys are probably (ahem...) lapping it up and lovin' it. Yay, more jiggling tits, and more, and more! Yay, more slurping, more sucking, more whores, more crotches and dicks! But for some others who're invested in the story...well, its painful and sad to watch. I loved those books. I mean, I loved those books. Every page of them, every scene, every development--the incest, child slavery, marital rape, beheadings, lopping of limbs, whatever. They were melded and meshed and part of the story. Porn for the sake of porn, was not. But now, alas, it is. My two cents.

[The Anti-Targ]

I love the idea, but how would one portray the Lannister incest...?

You see I see that scene as being virtually PG. For a PG version I would barely retouch that scene at all. There's nothing sexually explicit about it. It's shock is the gross-out factor of brother and sister sex.

Other things that I think can stay in for a PG version are: Lysa Arryn breast feeding, Dothraki topless dancing women, all side boob and side butt shots, nipple flashes, deer skinning, 99% of the Bronn vs. Egan dual, a flash of Ser Hugh's death gasp, execution of Young Will, decapitation of Gared (but not the head landing in front of Will), Loras and Renly (with the slurpy-slurp sound cut because that's just cheesy and should be removed for all versions).

I don't have a good reference point for the sex, but I reckon a good reference point for PG level violence is the Lord of the Rings movies. LOTR only showed orc blood so equivalence would probably mean showing a bit less blood but not eliminating it completely.

@ Hyper:

That's an interesting view. It could be argued that the way the show has been made it's more for horny 16-year olds than for "adults". Themes can be very adult and mature and well beyond the grasp of "kiddies" and yet be classified as PG in the way they are portrayed. Not everything PG-rated is kiddie, and not everything R-rated is mature. If you think the point of ASOIAF is tits and arse, and heads being chopped off then you've missed the point entirely, IMO. Those things are not what makes me a fan of the books, and it's a disservice to the source material if that's what makes the TV show (in)famous.

[Eponine]

Of course, cutting out many things sort of misses the point - GOT *is* a show for adults, based on very mature/adult source material. While a little bit of cutting might be OK, at some point you lose a lot of the themes. It IS a story about incest, rape, and violence. That should not be skimmed over.

GRRM did not set out to write a PG-13 kiddie-story.

And yet half of the sex in the show so far has been additional scenes that weren't in the book.

There weren't that many sex or nudity scenes in the first book. There's Jaime/Cersei of course, but told through Bran's decidedly non-graphic POV (he describes them as wrestling). There's naked Catelyn, which was not in the show. There's Robert Arryn nursing. There's Dany/Drogo - by far the most sex of any characters. And there's Tyrion/Shae. Any other mentions of sex IIRC are in passing, implied or general with no particular reason for an entire scene.

The show adds Theon, Tyrion with the whores, Viserys, Ros in the Littlefinger scene, and Renly/Loras - doubles the number of sex scenes. While there's nothing inherently wrong with adding exposition through sex, as someone who's read the books, I'd just as soon see more of the actual plot without interruption so would not personally care if those scenes were all removed.

Violence is something that's more difficult to cut, because IMO describing is significantly different from seeing. A scene can be set with just a few words - say, how the boar cut Robert from groin to nipple. There's no need to spend pages describing each pulse of blood. To see any type of believable rendition, I think the violence will have a more immediate impact.

[iheartseverus]

And yet half of the sex in the show so far has been additional scenes that weren't in the book.

There weren't that many sex or nudity scenes in the first book. There's Jaime/Cersei of course, but told through Bran's decidedly non-graphic POV (he describes them as wrestling). There's naked Catelyn, which was not in the show. There's Robert Arryn nursing. There's Dany/Drogo - by far the most sex of any characters. And there's Tyrion/Shae. Any other mentions of sex IIRC are in passing, implied or general with no particular reason for an entire scene.

The show adds Theon, Tyrion with the whores, Viserys, Ros in the Littlefinger scene, and Renly/Loras - doubles the number of sex scenes. While there's nothing inherently wrong with adding exposition through sex, as someone who's read the books, I'd just as soon see more of the actual plot without interruption so would not personally care if those scenes were all removed.

Violence is something that's more difficult to cut, because IMO describing is significantly different from seeing. A scene can be set with just a few words - say, how the boar cut Robert from groin to nipple. There's no need to spend pages describing each pulse of blood. To see any type of believable rendition, I think the violence will have a more immediate impact.

This. I guess my great disappointment in the HBO version is that while GRRM's books were all about astonishing, complex characters and their stories, HBO is all about non-stop graphic porno sex. The story takes second place.

[Wolfmage]

With the exception of I think it was Rickon's Dad, who specifically edited GoT so that his kid could watch, I just cannot fathom why anyone would want to do this. I guess I can cop to being significantly more liberal in my outlook about sexual morality than your typical fantasy-reading conservative. But my sexual morality, if anything, makes me wary of the graphic depiction of rape, under-age sex and sexual abuse that is ubiquitous in the series as a whole. I don't find any of it gratifying - I just think the tv series has a complete licence to depict a similar threshold of adult content (twisted or innocuous) - and there's plenty of both in the series.

My problem is that the concept of purposefully culling away something - whether it's from art, literature or film/tv - so as not to be offended is just utterly alien to me. My philosophy is you take the whole and if it makes you feel something - even something uncomfortable - then it's probably has some artist merit.

Also, I see nothing that is supposedly designed to titillate 17 year olds in the show. The sheer amount of sexposition dialogue and the frequent presence of violence and creepiness robs most of these scenes of any genuine titillation. Sounds to me more like people who are uncomfortable with this stuff anyway failing to imagine what possible reason the producers could have for including it but for teenagers -- as they can't see a tasteful (read conservative) artistic purpose. In other words, that's a projection. Teenagers can get limitless porn on the internet that is actually titillating - I don't think masturbation material is in short supply and HBO would not be the preferred destination. GoT is not doing it for titillation, it is doing it because it has consciously decided to embellishing upon the subversion of 'clean' fantasy tropes, and sexposition happens to be a quick (lazy) way of providing internal monologue. The producers are also obviously not starting from a puritan-like default that you need a high minded justification for having any nudity at all - they rightly feels casual about including nudity because it's an adult show based on an adult book series.

Besides, the show is rather more tame than the books when it comes to the kind of creepy, lingering perversity that has no strict plot relevance. Those saying otherwise have simply excised certain parts of the books from their mind, or otherwise given GRRM a generous artistic licence that they simply won't extend to a visual medium. Or, is anyone seriously going argue that we really *needed* to see Theon finish his business in the mouth of that poor stupid Captain's daughter, or that we really *needed* to see Arya threatened by a grotesque old women with rape with splintered broom handle. Those are just two examples off the top of my head - the book is filled with creepy graphic stuff that has dubious plot relevance. Any one of these could have been easily substituted for something less sexually graphic or perverted without affecting the level of tension or characterisation.

GRRM's trick is that he writes about these matters in an oblique way, which is just as disturbing to my mind as being visually depicted on a tv show.

[Anomandaris86]

But what if you could legally make your own PG version of the show?

I would never do it. It's a terrible idea.

[The Fan]

Absolutely! Whenever I visit a museum or other art show, I carry electrical tape and a big black sharpie...

Any statues of boobies or weiners I can make little bathing suits for out of electrical tape, and any pictures, paintings or drawings of boobies or weiners, I can use my black sharpie to finish what the artist didn't finish for some silly reason.... clothing their naked people.

<_< Yeah, it IS as ****ing silly to type it as it is think of actually doing it. Chopping up D&D's work (and ultimately, GRRM's) to cater to an over-sensitive minority or audience is was clearly not written/filmed for is at worst offensive to anyone involved, and at best, a poor idea.

I dislike the idea that some people cannot stand in the real world (and fake Westerosian ones) that people kill, ****, plot, love and act naturally as humans do.

[Arrogant Bastard]

I think the show would end up looking like the Sopranos when they tried to air it on PAX

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xp4QVYNAFcQ

Really though, there is no way HBO will include any option like that on the dvd. The only way it could possibly come close to that is if A & E or some station picks up the series like they did with the Sopranos and shows it censored.

[Hyper]

I think its not the concepts that the viewers are negatively reacting to--concepts like incest, child slavery, marital rape, etc. Those are integral parts of this story and the story's viewers are adults and not squeamish eek-ers. Rather, its HBO's shoveling of flat-out, on-screen pornography . Sucking, slurping, humping, squealing, boobie and dick-jiggling porn for the sake of porn. Porn for the sake of ratings. Porn for the sake of buzz. Porn for the sake of HBO's bottom line profits. For some viewers, me included, this blatant trash just intrudes on my beloved ASoIaF saga. 17-yr old boys are probably (ahem...) lapping it up and lovin' it. Yay, more jiggling tits, and more, and more! Yay, more slurping, more sucking, more whores, more crotches and dicks! But for some others who're invested in the story...well, its painful and sad to watch. I loved those books. I mean, I loved those books. Every page of them, every scene, every development--the incest, child slavery, marital rape, beheadings, lopping of limbs, whatever. They were melded and meshed and part of the story. Porn for the sake of porn, was not. But now, alas, it is. My two cents.

Oh come on! :shocked: Nothing - I mean nothing on the show so far comes ANYWHERE close to the 'titillation/porn factor' of many book scenes.

Let's just take the Dany/Drogo wedding night as an example. A grown man finger-f****ng a 13 yr old girl for an extended period, and finally taking her from behind. Go ahead, read the book section again. Can you imagine the porn/titillation accusation that HBO would come under if they filmed that as described (in detail)? :stunned: :stunned: :stunned: Is it really crucial to the plot that all of that was described? Not really. GRRM could easily have written around it by describing Drogo as "unexpectedly gentle" or something like that. The Littlefinger sexposition scene in episode 7 doesn't even come close to it, IMO.

(I need to find a link to the article, but I read somewhere that in the pilot, HBO tried to film the Dany/Drogo wedding scene closer to how it was described in the book, and they realized it just didn't work - to their credit IMO)

Other's have mentioned other parts in ASOIAF where GRRM goes full tilt: Theon's stuff in book 2, Tyrion/Shae ad nauseum ("fat pink masts"), Dany's lesbian moment, Cersei's lesbian moment(s)... The list goes on and on.

Yes, you *love* reading all of that - in detail that is not relevant to the plot. Yet, when someone dares to *show* something similar (milder, even) - then OH NO. HBO goes for titillation/porn for the teenage males! <_<

Yes, HBO does like to push boundaries. That's what they always do. Doesn't GRRM push boundaries as well?

[D_Richard]

The story takes second place.

I have no idea how you made it through the books, but maybe you should just tune out from the show so that people can be spared having to read in between the lines of your posts about your fears of sex and sexual acts.