A Thread for Small Questions X

[Dragonfish]

Jon was the first baby back to winterfell after the war. I think when Jon and Rob come back to winterfell they are at least over 1 year old. so you would be conparing a 14 month old with a a 16 or 17 month old. Baby sizes vary. Read when they are talking about rob and jon. Rob is bigger boy.

Wouldn't the fact that Robb is a bigger boy support the idea that he was born before Jon?

You're right, though, that my point about comparing a 3-4 month old baby to a newborn was a bit off, since Catelyn obviously didn't see Jon right after he was born. However, my point about the timeline still stands, notwithstanding your objections below.

EDIT--One last thing: Catelyn states in AGOT that she and Ned had been apart for a year during the war. I assume that means there was a year between their marriage and her taking residence in Winterfell, at which point she found Jon already there. Thus, I don't think either child could possibly have been a year old when Catelyn came to Winterfell. Robb was likely around 3 months old at the time, and Jon as well, give or take a month.

Also I love how you guys think the time line is locked in cement. We have been told varying accounts of storys all thur the book.

We haven't heard any varying accounts about when Daenerys was born, or how long the war lasted. I think you're going through a denial stage, here.

Danys brother was a boy when he was shipped across the narrow sea. Are we sure everything he says 100% acutate.

We don't learn when Dany was conceived from Viserys, we learn it from someone else (Jaime, I think).

I think any event could be shiffed a few months. like the war lasted about a Year. To me that could be anywhere from 9 months to 11 months and 20 days. Vary vauge.

This Citadel article lays out most of the timeline issues. I think it makes a good case in its second paragraph that 10-11 months is likelier than 9 months as a timeline for the war.

Not enought proof to say one way or another on anything. If we dont have a POV and you were there,your are hearing 2 and 3th hand accounts of events.

No we're not, we learn these things from people actually involved in the war, such as Ned and Jaime. I'm fine if you want to offer reasonable objections, but this isn't one of them.

[slayer420]

Wouldn't the fact that Robb is a bigger boy support the idea that he was born before Jon?

I point is that just because some one is bigger doesnt mean that the are older. Lets say you compare Hondor and ned as babys. Lets say ned was 4 months older but hondor would be a bigger baby. doesnt make hondor older. Just means he has a bigger frame and carrys more weight.

[slayer420]

Wouldn't the fact that Robb is a bigger boy support the idea that he was born before Jon?

I point is that just because some one is bigger doesnt mean that the are older. Lets say you compare Hondor and ned as babys. Lets say ned was 4 months older but hondor would be a bigger baby. doesnt make hondor older. Just means he has a bigger frame and carrys more weight.

My

[Dragonfish]

Wouldn't the fact that Robb is a bigger boy support the idea that he was born before Jon?

I point is that just because some one is bigger doesnt mean that the are older. Lets say you compare Hondor and ned as babys. Lets say ned was 4 months older but hondor would be a bigger baby. doesnt make hondor older. Just means he has a bigger frame and carrys more weight.

Ok, but Hodor is a pretty huge guy. Robb and Jon are around the same size, most likely. I don't think there's much chance that one happened to be born much bigger than the other.

That said, I think it's possible that Jon was born before Robb, though not long before. I just don't think he could have been conceived before the war began.

[Galen M]

we know that Jon is 8-9 months older than Dany from a SSM, so that's canon. We also know that Ned had to be away fighting for at least 9 months.

[slayer420]

Does anyone have any theorys why Benjen took the black?

[FLight]

This is more of a 'personal preference' question, I think - but what would you expect the 'Dornish drawl' to sound like? I'm guessing they'll have the Dornish characters in future seasons of the TV show have accents, but I'm wondering what other people think.

[Ygritte]

Does anyone have any theorys why Benjen took the black?

I think he was idealistic about it--like Jon was, later--and that's part of why he tried to discourage Jon from joining up. He'd already been disillusioned by the NW himself.

[alpha5099]

I was wondering if anyone knows where I can find a map that I came across a while ago. It was a hypothetical sketched map of the eniter aSoIaF planet and had a completely drawn Sothoryos. It was pretty poorly drawn. Does anyone know where I can find it?

Maybe it's Other in Law's map? I wouldn't characterize it as poorly drawn, though I don't like that Essos and Sothoryos are pretty much just Eurasia and Africa.

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/Gallery/Entry/1362/

A couple others I found, though they only seem to have the northern shore of Sothoryos:

http://i53.tinypic.com/30c7ldt.jpg

http://images.wikia.com/cronacheghiacciofuoco/it/images/6/6f/Essos.jpg

[alpha5099]

Why is Cersei not Cersei Baratheon? I checked the appendices, and in the first three she's listed as Queen Cersei, of House Lannister, while in Feast she's listed as Cersei Lannister. And I'm also noticing that Catelyn only seems to be listed as Lady Catelyn Stark once, in Feast's list of Tullys; everywhere else she is Lady Catelyn, of House Tully.

How do women's name change with marriage? I'd assumed from Catelyn that women just always took their husband's name, but I'm wondering if even that is the official practice. It seems the formal address for a married women is Lady So-and-So, of House Whatever. I suppose last names are really just a convention, and that this is probably true for men as well; on some level, Eddard doesn't have a last name, he's Eddard, of House Stark.

So what determines what last name a married woman uses when she uses one? Do most affect their husband's name, as Catelyn seems to prefer, or is Cersei's style more the norm, maintaining their original House as a last name?

[mormont]

[mod] Please take any further discussion of Jon's parentage to the appropriate thread. [/mod]

[LordTabelz]

I'm still reading AFFC (just got up to Aemon's death) and was wondering about the mentions of Qyburn's experiments, did I miss something or is there going to be an explanation about it. If I just accidentally read over it can someone tell me?

[Ser Celery]

I'm still reading AFFC (just got up to Aemon's death) and was wondering about the mentions of Qyburn's experiments, did I miss something or is there going to be an explanation about it. If I just accidentally read over it can someone tell me?

If I recall correctly Qyburn was expelled from the Citadel for doing the dark stuff he wasn't supposed to do, that's also the reason why he was a member of the Bloody Mumbers and doesn't wear a chain anymore.

[Areo]

I think he was idealistic about it--like Jon was, later--and that's part of why he tried to discourage Jon from joining up. He'd already been disillusioned by the NW himself.

I'm not sure when he joined, but he was the third child and like Wymar Royce he may have chosen the NW as a means to prove himself and honor his house. It seems most noble men who join the NW do it for this reason.

[Ser Celery]

I'm still reading AFFC (just got up to Aemon's death) and was wondering about the mentions of Qyburn's experiments, did I miss something or is there going to be an explanation about it. If I just accidentally read over it can someone tell me?

Apologies, I am not yet able to edit my posts. The answer is no, you did not miss anything, the full extent of his experiments is not yet revealed to us. I guess that will be done in ADWD. Though you will get some clue in one of Cersei's chapters toward the end of AFFC.

[Yarl Snow]

A question about the ADWD policies:

Am I correct in understanding that after July 12th, the ADWD forum will be opened for posting, and that one will be allowed to discuss ADWD to the full extent there?

If so, what level of spoiler protection is to be adhered there? Write non-spoilerish titles, spoiler tags around spoiler information?

Also, at what time is this? I am myself on CET, so at this moment, July 12th is about 8 hours away. I'm sure I will notice when the forum is opened, but it would be nice to know.

[Dragonfish]

Why is Cersei not Cersei Baratheon? I checked the appendices, and in the first three she's listed as Queen Cersei, of House Lannister, while in Feast she's listed as Cersei Lannister. And I'm also noticing that Catelyn only seems to be listed as Lady Catelyn Stark once, in Feast's list of Tullys; everywhere else she is Lady Catelyn, of House Tully.

How do women's name change with marriage? I'd assumed from Catelyn that women just always took their husband's name, but I'm wondering if even that is the official practice. It seems the formal address for a married women is Lady So-and-So, of House Whatever. I suppose last names are really just a convention, and that this is probably true for men as well; on some level, Eddard doesn't have a last name, he's Eddard, of House Stark.

So what determines what last name a married woman uses when she uses one? Do most affect their husband's name, as Catelyn seems to prefer, or is Cersei's style more the norm, maintaining their original House as a last name?

Here's a Citadel entry I found on the subject:

"Most of the ladies of Westeros do change their names when they wed, although usage varies. If the wife's family is significantly higher born than the husband's, she may use his name little, if at all."

I don't know if House Lannister would commonly be considered a "higher born" house than House Baratheon, but no doubt Cersei would think so, and usage would likely follow her example.

[Ygritte]

Here's a Citadel entry I found on the subject:

"Most of the ladies of Westeros do change their names when they wed, although usage varies. If the wife's family is significantly higher born than the husband's, she may use his name little, if at all."

I don't know if House Lannister would commonly be considered a "higher born" house than House Baratheon, but no doubt Cersei would think so, and usage would likely follow her example.

Exactly. Baratheon is supposed to be higher status than Lannister, but the Lannisters feel otherwise. ;) This also came up when Joffrey wore a Lannister cloak at his wedding instead of a Baratheon one as would be traditional for a (supposed) Baratheon.

I wonder if the Catelyn Tully references are because she spends so much of the story in the Riverlands among people who knew her as a girl; the Tully name would have more pull there than the Stark one.

[Bahimiron]

What I've always wondered is how usual it is for the crown prince to adapt his mother's heraldry into his personal shield. Even after becoming king Joffrey continues to use heraldry of both a stag and a lion, despite the fact that he is (presumably) Joffrey Baratheon. Tommen continues Joffrey's use of the dual shield, I believe. Neither Robert, Stannis nor Renly stuck a turtle in their personal heraldry. The Stark kids don't have trout in their wolves' mouths.

Other than Joffrey the only place I can find other people putting their mom's heraldry into their own are highborn bastards, like Bittersteel who put a stallion with dragon wings on his coat-of-arms to represent both his Bracken and Targaryen heritage.

I guess people accepted the inclusion of the lions as proof that Lannisters are prideful.

[Ygritte]

What I've always wondered is how usual it is for the crown prince to adapt his mother's heraldry into his personal shield. Even after becoming king Joffrey continues to use heraldry of both a stag and a lion, despite the fact that he is (presumably) Joffrey Baratheon. Tommen continues Joffrey's use of the dual shield, I believe. Neither Robert, Stannis nor Renly stuck a turtle in their personal heraldry. The Stark kids don't have trout in their wolves' mouths.

Other than Joffrey the only place I can find other people putting their mom's heraldry into their own are highborn bastards, like Bittersteel who put a stallion with dragon wings on his coat-of-arms to represent both his Bracken and Targaryen heritage.

I guess people accepted the inclusion of the lions as proof that Lannisters are prideful.

And I think it's kind of an open secret that the Crown was broke and all his money was coming from the Lannisters, and they probably saw it as a statement of "We're paying for all this, so we're sticking out heraldry in, so deal with it" if they didn't interpret it as an implication about the kids' real parentage.