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Xray the Enforcer

[ADWD SPOILERS] Victarion 1

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The line about the Dothraki Sea was hilarious. On a more serious note: can the horn be Joramuns Horn?

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The line about the Dothraki Sea was hilarious. On a more serious note: can the horn be Joramuns Horn?

I think it's safe to say "no". Euron is said to have found the horn near the smoking sea. Why would wildlings from beyond the wall even know of its existence if it is half a world away? Wildlings are not known to travel the world. Sure, Euron could have lied but it would be an absurd reveal if it comes out that he actually wandered in the lands beyond the wall to find the horn.

Also, there are some indications that the horn Jon and Sam found with the dragonglass in ACOC is actually the horn of Joramun which Jon gave to Sam when he departed.

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Also, there are some indications that the horn Jon and Sam found with the dragonglass in ACOC is actually the horn of Joramun which Jon gave to Sam when he departed.

Hmm, nice theory...the only thing wrong with it, is why would the children of the forest, or rangers for that matter bury the horn so poorly under the fist of the first men... regarding Eurons horn, assuming it was Joramuns Horn, they blew it on the Iron Islands, so I am guessing it should have broken the wall if it was the real thing, no matter how far from the wall, we are talking magic here...

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This chapter was very good, i love how

Moqorro is

being accurate with all the vision that has in the fire, but i think that he has more power than Mel because is more nearly of the Drangons that give the power of his God, IMO

i always have thinking that the horn that found Jon is the

Joramuns Horn, because when he found it he said that the

earth was removed recently, so someone put it there so that was found by Ghost or Jon, also remember that was wrapped in a black cloak.

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I think there more to than that. In this series it not hard to notice the similarities of the constant theme of little brother trying to escape big brother shadow. Jon, Stannis, and Victarion actions reflect there desire make names for themselves. I include Jon in this to because he constantly go to his vows whether that his on conviction or is he trying to be his father's son out his attempt to be a Stark. I can be putting more thought into this but it now hard to see the younger sibling theme in this book.

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The Red Priest mentions the Drowned God is a thrall of the Great Other... so is it safe to say there are only two real Gods in ASoIaF? I could believe the Drowned God is a thrall, especially when the last Jon Snow chapter mentioned "Dead things in the water". Victarion is swelling the Other's army with every dead body he throws out to sea!

All speculation of course :P

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Ugh I want him to get rid of some of Dany's enemies then die while taking out his brother so we can be rid of the worst of the Greyjoys.

I hope he never has the chance to meet Dany either. Two houses that should never mix.

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This chapter was very good, i love how Moqorro is being accurate with all the vision that has in the fire, but i think that he has more power than Mel because is more nearly of the Drangons that give the power of his God, IMO

That's how i see it too. Not that Moqorro is better than Mel, i think that Melissander is better, but she's maybe as far away from the dragons as possible, and very much within the domain of the Other(s), the domain of ice. Moqorro is very close to the Dragons, which are the source of all fire magic.

I think Mel is also overtrusting her skills because of this. Believing that she is next to the Azor Ahai, she would expect her powers to work better, not worse (assuming that the Azor Ahai is actually Dany... or in any case, not-Stannis, as his Lightbringer is a fraud).

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I didn't read too much into Moqorro saying that the Drowned God is a thrall of the Great Other - maybe it's just his way of saying that Victarion is worshiping a false God, not that literally there is a Drowned God and he is serving the Great Other. But maybe that's just me.

I love Victarion too, he is a breath of fresh air in his simplicity and focus: the dude gets things done, and doesn't mess about going for his target. More like him and GRRM could wrap up the series in a couple of years!

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That's how i see it too. Not that Moqorro is better than Mel, i think that Melissander is better, but she's maybe as far away from the dragons as possible, and very much within the domain of the Other(s), the domain of ice. Moqorro is very close to the Dragons, which are the source of all fire magic.

I think Mel is also overtrusting her skills because of this. Believing that she is next to the Azor Ahai, she would expect her powers to work better, not worse (assuming that the Azor Ahai is actually Dany... or in any case, not-Stannis, as his Lightbringer is a fraud).

Moqorro is more what i expected from a red priest, the way he was written I had a clear image in my head of his black skin and red tattoos. Melisandre has become confident because she believes Stannis to be Azor Ahai. What I find interesting, is when Tyrion and Jorah are in Old Volantis and hear Benerro preaching, he says the dany is Azor Ahai. That i believe, melisandre went to dragonstone for the wrong reasons, no Baratheon is the rightful prince of dragonstone... right.

Moqorro also saves Victarions hand and life, something mel has never done. She has only used her powers to foreshadow coming events and to kill the 3 usurping kings in Westeros (Robb, Balon & Joffery).

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Victarion has emerged to be one of my favorite characters in this series. I don't like the Krakens very much in general, but even though Victarion is Ironborn through and through he's not without honor. However, I don't believe that he's going to have any type of happy ending with Dany. I think the greatness that Moqorro has prophesized is him being strong enough to get to Dany and her taking possesion of Dragonbinder. Moqorro stated specifically that the horn must be claimed with blood and Victarion is definitely not the blood of the dragon. Not to mention that at this point there is no way that Dany is going to ignore a warning from Quaithe. (Trust none of them)

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Victarion is such a boring and limited character, no depth. He likes reaving and battles, he's a great fighter, he hates Euron, and that's pretty much his whole personality.

His plot is fairly interesting in ADWD, but not enough to overcome his bland and cliched personality, especially compared to the other PoV characters, all of which are much more fascinating IMO.

I like Victarion. I think he is easily the most likable of the Greyjoy's (except maybe Asha). I actually find him rather endearing and surprisingly likable. Somehow, I do not even find it reprehensible that he is often chucking people overboard for the Drowned God, cutting people's heads off with his axe (he does it himself, like Ned) or even when he set 7 women on fire as a sacrifice to what ever God wanted them.

He is driven, forceful, and I find his chapters vastly entertaining. (Yes, I know he beat his wife to death, but he show's grief for her and for the act of her murder). I like his insight and he demonstrates a certain type of warrior's honor. Hey, the Dragon Queen free's slaves, and so does he!

I really enjoyed the pace of this chapter. Much of ADwD moved slowly, but not Vic's chapters. His fleet is growing as fast as his confidence. I laughed until I cried about him ready to sail over the Dothraki sea! Heck, he might just try it.

And I like that Victarion is not at all bothered that his hand has been turned into a smoking pork rind!!!

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The Red Priest mentions the Drowned God is a thrall of the Great Other... so is it safe to say there are only two real Gods in ASoIaF? I could believe the Drowned God is a thrall, especially when the last Jon Snow chapter mentioned "Dead things in the water". Victarion is swelling the Other's army with every dead body he throws out to sea!

All speculation of course :P

Good insight! I did not think of that. I wonder if distance makes a difference or not?

Also it makes me think about the possibility of poor Maester Aemon, floating somewhere in the sea, blood of the dragon risen as a Wight!

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There's too much Conan in Victarion for me. The movie Conan, not the one from the books. GRRM obviously tried to write Victarions POV in a very simplistic, force and strength driven manner. As fascinating as that might be, it feels a bit too much cliche, when you read it. And it makes a rather boring read, too. The character is so simple, you always seem to know in advance, how he will react. "Problem? Kill it."

It's the same trap GRRM has fallen into with Cersei. Whenever you read her chapters, you know how she will react to everything ("I am awesome. Everybody is my enemy. Let's do something completely stupid to prove how awesome I am!").

Cersei is meant to be predictable. Didnt LF tell to Sansa in A Storm of Swords that Cersei is utterly predictable even though she thinks herself sly, and cunning. That is one more gem you noticed in Author's writing. Grrm build it up very thoughtfully and this is what i call consistency.

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Interesting the tittle change for his actual name, I guess Victarion will become a major player from now on.

I could see the opposite happening, actually. I think Victarion is just a chess piece in Moqorro or Euron's game they're playing. Once Victarion arrives in Mereen he's going to be offed, although I hope I'm wrong. I'm really enjoying his character and hope he get's a chance at taking out Crow's Eye - but I guess I would prefer Theon/Asha to do that in their eventual quest for the Seastone Chair/whatever they call their Iron Throne.

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I could see the opposite happening, actually. I think Victarion is just a chess piece in Moqorro or Euron's game they're playing. Once Victarion arrives in Mereen he's going to be offed, although I hope I'm wrong. I'm really enjoying his character and hope he get's a chance at taking out Crow's Eye - but I guess I would prefer Theon/Asha to do that in their eventual quest for the Seastone Chair/whatever they call their Iron Throne.

Couldn't agree more: Victarion, while fun to read (for his political incorrectness ;-)), does feel more like a plot device to me, a vessel to get Moqorro to Mereen. By the same token, Stannis seems to have accomplished no more than getting Melisandre to Jon.

Could be interesting though: Melisandre with Jon and Moqorro with Dany. Two red priests, different environments.

Even if that's not what happens, I'm not sure I *want* Vic to reach Dany. To me, he seems more like a detractor from the 'main' plot (ie getting Dany back to Westeros).

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