[ADwD Spoilers] Who is the main character?

[brashcandy]

I don't know... I tend to think that Cersei may be more important than Tyrion in the long run. I do agree that Tyrion is one of the main characters, but in terms of plot importance his journey doesn't seem so significant anymore. The killing of Tywin was the climatic part of his arc, and in ADWD Martin just seems to be using him to bring attention to other characters in the text: Aegon/Jorah.

I know the theories that he's a secret Targ or he's gonna be a dragon rider.. but eh... I've just been underwhelmed and a little freaked out by Tyrion in ADWD, and his quest for Casterly Rock isn't so compelling. Cersei on the hand, has increasingly become more fascinating as a character, and there's still the mystery of the valonquar, and what will happen with her remaining children to keep us interested.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I don't know... I tend to think that Cersei may be more important than Tyrion in the long run. I do agree that Tyrion is one of the main characters, but in terms of plot importance his journey doesn't seem so significant anymore. The killing of Tywin was the climatic part of his arc, and in ADWD Martin just seems to be using him to bring attention to other characters in the text: Aegon/Jorah.

I know the theories that he's a secret Targ or he's gonna be a dragon rider.. but eh... I've just been underwhelmed and a little freaked out by Tyrion in ADWD, and his quest for Casterly Rock isn't so compelling. Cersei on the hand, has increasingly become more fascinating as a character, and there's still the mystery of the valonquar, and what will happen with her remaining children to keep us interested.

But none of that means that she'll be a truly significant (like, top three) player in the overall story. You might find her arc compelling (I do too), but that doesn't really mean much in terms of where the narrative's going. For the record, I don't think Tyrion is a Targ and I'm also not convinced he's going to be a dragon rider. But do I put him on the same level as Jon and Dany? Yes. Do I still think it's ultimately about the three of them? Yes. And I absolutely despise Dany as this point, so it's not like I'm playing favorites or anything. I think Theon and Jaime are absolutely fascinating characters, but I don't think that either of them, at the end of the day, is going to be a truly primary actor.

[The Lost Lord]

But then how do you explain A Feast For Crows? GRRM wrote and released an entire book that didn't contain POVs of Jon, Dany, or Tyrion. Granted, Jon appears via Sam's POV, but neither Tyrion nor Dany appears at all. I don't see how we can consider those three as the "primary" characters, the most integral characters in the story, when the author himself felt comfortable writing an entire book without them.

There is a two part explanation. (1) AFFC was supposed to be combined with ADWD in the same book and was split geographically, as Apple Martini says. (2) AFFC replaces what was intended to be a "5 year gap" period, which was meant to be a rather boring period for the main characters without major plot advancement. So by necessity Martin had to invent new material for characters like Cersei, Dorne, the ironborn, and Brienne so stuff could actually happen in the book . These were characters he didn't originally intend to give POVs to.

I tend to think that Cersei may be more important than Tyrion in the long run.

Even after ASOS was published, Martin was still not planning on including a Cersei POV in the series. He only added it after he scrapped the "5 year gap" and then realized he needed to depict events at King's Landing. To me, this clearly indicates that as late as post-book 3, Cersei's arc was not essential to Martin's conception of the larger story.

Tyrion's importance, I am not sure how to convince you of it if you don't believe it. I suppose I'd point to his impenetrable plot armor and his status as Martin's favorite character.

[brashcandy]

Tyrion's importance, I am not sure how to convince you of it if you don't believe it. I suppose I'd point to his impenetrable plot armor and his status as Martin's favorite character.

I am well aware that he's Martin's favourite character, LL. My point is that whilst Tyrion is an important character, he seems now to be important in relation to others, not so much for himself anymore like he was in AGOT - ASOS. He's been Martin's favourite character to write for so far, but with the series winding down, he could become as dispensable as anyone else.

[The Lost Lord]

My point is that whilst Tyrion is an important character, he seems now to be important in relation to others, not so much for himself anymore like he was in AGOT - ASOS.

His ADWD arc had him go from a depressed wreck, to a prisoner, to a slave -- and ended with him in a position to make a major comeback. If his arc then peters out into nothingness, without him returning to power, then Martin is truly a terrible writer. But of course this won't happen -- he'll soon become the chief strategic mind behind Dany's invasion of Westeros. And might I add:

“Dragons old and young, true and false, bright and dark. And you. A small man with a big shadow, snarling in the midst of all.”

[Errant Bard]

he'll soon become the chief strategic mind behind Dany's invasion of Westeros.

That's called being a support character. Bran will be the chief magician behind the Other's defeat, Sansa will be the main figurehead of Stark reconquest, no idea about Arya... but in the end it's the same deal as Tyrion. Now Dany and Jon have "hero of destiny, savior of the world" written in ten foot tall flaming letters above their head.

[The Lost Lord]

That's called being a support character. Bran will be the chief magician behind the Other's defeat, Sansa will be the main figurehead of Stark reconquest, no idea about Arya... but in the end it's the same deal as Tyrion. Now Dany and Jon have "hero of destiny, savior of the world" written in ten foot tall flaming letters above their head.

Aren't you forgetting that the dragon has three heads? BTW, I don't buy any of your assumptions about the Others because Martin has made comments suggesting there will be some kind of twist on that front. But leaving that aside, the role of Hand is not a mere mechanical one. Eddard was the main character of Book One, Tyrion of Book Two -- both as Hand. When/if Tyrion becomes Dany's Hand, he will be a force to be reckoned with in his own right, in shaping the future of Westeros.

[ARYa_Nym]

From Moqorro's prophecy I get the impression that Tyrion will be manipulating the Dance of Dragons Part II. GRRM said that it would be the subject of a book. He might help pit Dany and Aegon against each other. He has helped the Undying prophecy about the cloth dragon come to fruition already and maybe even be the betrayal for love. She was told not to trust him but she most likely will make a mistake like the perfumed seneschal.

[ARYa_Nym]

Also, Tyrion is still a possibility for King in the end. I think it's b/w Dany, Jon, Tyrion, and Stannis. He said that we never got to see Aragorn rule. It will be someone that we saw have trials in positions of power already. There is a line which some have took as foreshadowing Tyrion as king but there are other lines that point to the other 3 as well.

[Errant Bard]

Aren't you forgetting that the dragon has three heads?

Are you suggesting that your opinion about what this expression means, who could be involved, and how the story will play has to be accepted as a rock solid premise making yet another of your opinions some sort of objective truth?

I don't think so.

So far, the obvious reading everyone gets from the book is that Dany and Jon fit the standard destined hero roles. Tyrion does not, not any more than all the other big PoV characters... and even the speculations put him as some support for one of the two main characters, not a main character on his own, it's telling.

... But not being the hidden heir or the feisty princess, saviour of the world, heir of destiny and all that jazz doesn't mean one cannot be important. Support characters are important, especially in ASOIAF, where the PoV structure allows GRRM to muddle the usual simplistic role distribution and expand on what, and who makes the world tick, outside of the usual destined heroes. (If Eddings did write ASOIAF, we would follow Jon until he met Dany, and that's it as far as characters go)

[Wolf Maid]

If there is a main character at all, I’d go with Bran. He is probably going to be the most powerful person in the series, in terms of supernatural abilities. I think he is the one that is going to last until the end and rebuild everything. Also, IIRC, the last hero sought the help of the COTF to defeat the others. He’s already there.

The five year gap was primarily for Bran, Arya and Sansa, so I’m not buying that they are just supporting characters to anyone. They each have their own stories and are developing special abilities, particularly Bran and Arya. That has got to be for some purpose. Also, in response to not doing the five year gap, GRRM said, “if a 12 year old has to save the world, so be it”. Bran and Arya will be the only 2 young enough to fall into that category by the end of the series.

I think everyone that is left from the first book has their own story and a part to play. However, Bran is the one that is going to save the world in the end.

[ARYa_Nym]

In terms of chapters count:

47 -- Tyrion Lannister

42 -- Jon Snow

33 -- Arya Stark

31 -- Daenerys Targaryen

25 -- Catelyn Stark

24 -- Sansa "Alayne Stone" Stark

21 -- Brandon "Bran" Stark.

He said that Tyrion is his favorite character to write though and then Arya. I think he said that Bran is difficult for him to write. But I think that Jon,Dany, and Bran are the main characters. He hasn't given us a clue about Arya's endgame so I can't say.

[Faint]

I think Tyrion will end up being the glue that ties the whole story together. I don't think it's incidental that he's already had significant contact with Jon and Sansa (and even Bran to some extent) as he heads towards his meeting with Daenerys.

I guess if we want to get really technical, maybe it would be best to put Daenerys and Jon as the two principle characters, with Bran, Sansa, Arya, and Tyrion just below.

That said, it still holds that those six are the core of the story.

[Candor]

I find it interesting that by the numbers, in GoT, Bran had a significant amount of POV's, but by Book 5 he's actually on the bottom of the count. Considering his story rapidly grew more and more in importance as the time went on.

[The Lost Lord]

Are you suggesting that your opinion about what this expression means, who could be involved, and how the story will play has to be accepted as a rock solid premise making yet another of your opinions some sort of objective truth?

Touchy touchy! I actually have no firm view on the matter, other than that any main characters have to come from the AGOT six, so I have no idea why you're assuming I'm claiming objective truth. But you seem to be quite ironclad certain in your belief that there are only two main characters, so I was curious how you'd square this with the frequently repeated phrase "the dragon has three heads."

[brashcandy]

I think the principal characters are changing as the series progresses, with perhaps only Jon and Dany remaining constants. I don't see Tyrion as Dany's hand, and I'd hate to see him as a dragon rider. His last stand in the narrative should probably be going up against Cersei for control of Casterly Rock.

IMO the principal characters going forward right now are Arianne, Sansa, Arya, Aegon, and Bran.

[Faint]

IMO the principal characters going forward right now are Arianne, Sansa, Arya, Aegon, and Bran.

Arianne and Aegon?

'Aegon' doesn't even have a POV. And Arianne will be lucky to get more than three POVs in TWoW. I just find this idea implausible, to say the least.

Incidentally, I think dismissing Tyrion from the main narrative arc is folly. GRRM has been clear from a while back that his endgame had the five main POVs from Winterfell coming together again plus Daenerys, with many references to LotR on the matter.

[ckongo]

Bran has never been a main character. His role has become less significant with each passing book. He had only 4 chapters in ASOS, none in AFFC, and only 3 in ADWD.

There are 2 aspects to determine a main character. First, the quantity of POVs in each book. Second, how much the actions of the character affect other plotlines in the story.

My opinion on the main characters for each book are:

AGOT- Eddard

ACOK- Tyrion

ASOS- Tyrion (?)

AFFC- Cersei

ADWD- Jon

[Candor]

Question - why do you think Bran's role has diminished?

He's gone from a little boy climbing walls in his home to meeting the fabled Children Of The Forest, learning and practicing his greenseer abilities (which were developed and realized over the story's time), and warging.

[Verboten]

I am well aware that he's Martin's favourite character, LL. My point is that whilst Tyrion is an important character, he seems now to be important in relation to others, not so much for himself anymore like he was in AGOT - ASOS. He's been Martin's favourite character to write for so far, but with the series winding down, he could become as dispensable as anyone else.

He is not Martin's favourite character, he is the character Marting enjoys writing because of his humor. And honestly I don't see how anyone could deny the importance of Tyrion, asshole though he may be.