[ADwD spoilers] Winds of Winter speculation, II

[Dragons Dancing]

According to poster on Tower of the Hand George told crowd at Albuquerque Library that two battle scenes cut from DWD will be put in WoW and one is the battle for Winterfell. We can expect this battle to be at or near the beginning. The other battle that he cut out could be one of several: 1. Aftermath of Jon's stabbing at the Wall, 2. Aegon taking Storms End, 3. Meereen and the Yunkai.

[Melifeather]

I'm suspicious of the scroll from Ramsay Bolton at the end of ADWD. Did it really come from Ramsay? If so, where did Asha, Theon and Jeyne go? Although, who else would know about all of the following: Stannis at Winterfell, his Queen being at the Wall, the Red Witch at the Wall, that Mance was at Winterfell, Mance's son, and that Reek and "Arya" are missing from Winterfell? Perhaps this was a fabrication of Bowen Marsh? Has he been in contact with Ramsay or Roose Bolton?

I also speculate that Jon will become like the "good" dead Ranger/Other that helped Bran. Jon kept those two dead bodies in the cells. I was expecting him to try to learn what the Others want and with him being dead, perhaps he will be able to communicate with them?

One of Danys prophesies is that she has to go backwards in order to go forward. So, being found by Khal Jhaqo leads me to believing that she will be taken into his khal as his khaleesi and remain out on the Dothraki Grass Sea to learn how to control her dragon Drogo. Her own Dothraki riders will find her and join up with Khal Jhaqo and toether they save Meeren from being sacked.

Meanwhile back in Meeren, Tyrion will know how to use the other two dragons to oust the Yunkai or he uses the Second Sons to oust the Yunkai and manages to align the SS's with Barristan Selmy.

[Melifeather]

Tommen and Myrcella both bite it in some way, shape or form. Myrcella was never formally crowned, but with her Lannister hair, she still fits as having a "golden crown." Nifty, right?

Brienne carries Jaime to UnCat, where he agrees to kill Cersei in exchange for freedom/his own life/maybe even Brienne's life. Jaime succeeds in killing her, but commits suicide or gets taken out by guards, thus they both exit at the same time. Jaime is Cersei's valonqar. I don't buy that it could be ANY brother or sister anywhere. The prophecy is very specific to Cersei — and has been literal up to this point — so I think it means a valonqar in relation to her.

The prologue will probably be someone down south (as is the pattern), but I suspect we'll get to Winterfell early on. There's just SO MUCH going on — all the Meereenese crap, Sam in Oldtown, the King's Landing intrigue, the stuff at the Wall with Jon, a bunch of renegades, including Brienne, Jaime and UnCat, running around the Riverlands, Arya in training, Sansa in the Vale, Rickon on Skagos, the Martells conspiring, the stuff with the Faith and the Iron Bank, Margaery's own trial, Bran beyond the Wall, a possible battle for Winterfell ... *breathes* And he thinks he can wrap it up with two books?

I think you are right, Apple Martini. I think Jaime is Cersei's valonqar. She mistakenly believes it is Tyrion, but your idea would flesh out the Brienne story rather than a simple death for Jaime. And since they are twins with Cersei being born first, Jaime holding her foot. It would make sense that Jaime would kill Cersei and that he would follow her in death somehow.

[Tall Tyrion Lannister!]

According to poster on Tower of the Hand George told crowd at Albuquerque Library that two battle scenes cut from DWD will be put in WoW and one is the battle for Winterfell. We can expect this battle to be at or near the beginning. The other battle that he cut out could be one of several: 1. Aftermath of Jon's stabbing at the Wall, 2. Aegon taking Storms End, 3. Meereen and the Yunkai.

Well if some people's speculation it could be a flashback chapter for the battle of winterfell. Since some people think Ramsay's letter was true. but that wouldn't explain how The Greyjoys and jeyne got away, since none of them are in much condition to be doing much traveling alone.

[raenasnow]

reading these things really changes my perspective on a lot of matters but here are some of my thoughts:

aegon is real... i don't think grrm would go to the trouble of bringing him back to life to have him be a fake

i've got this weird feeling... and you are all very welcome to disagree... that arya and aegon will end up together, makes a happy ending, no? and considering how she is supposedly a lot like lyanna and is starting to become pretty i think its kind of likely.. and THEN in that case... it'd be sick if she were the younger more beautiful queen to fuck with cersei...

perhaps a little farfetched, but it'd be nice.

anyhoo, cersei is not losing any time soon... varys wouldn't have gone to the trouble of killing off kevan if he was gonna let cersei die, he wants her to further fuck up the seven kingdoms.

for brienne, uncat, and unberic: it said in the books that unberic officially died when he kissed uncat (cause the fire went out of him or something) so i'm pretty sure that brienne is actually unbrienne and that uncat is gone.. just because we saw that scene where cat had them all hanged, i think cat might have given brienne that kiss of life thing to turn her into a heartless killing machine to reap havoc on all freys and seek stark vengeance, also so that uncat might finally die and join ned etc etc.

daenarys better get the hell out of essos, or i will dragon fire the shit out of these books

i like the idea of jon being half targ, but he clearly got the more stark genes considering his hand got burnt, so i don't think (if he comes back from the dead) hell be riding a dragon anytime soon... no way in hell is victarion getting near those dragons either, just cannot see the iron born winning

[TrueLion]

Ok crazy rambling time!

Huh, UnBrienne by way of UnCat, that's actually sort of neat.

I agree with Jaime being the valonquar from the prophecy. The way they describe his golden hand, particularly the stationary way it's set to 'hold a wine goblet' or some such (I forget the actual line) makes me think that it's golden fingers are curved just enough to slip around a neck. I remember Jaime trying to use the golden hand to drink from a cup and being bumblingly awkward about it, so maybe he'll find a much better use for that hand at some point.

Blackfish swimming up the river to Howland Reed, also maybe with that one Westerling guy Raynard (I think thats his name) who also jumped in a river to escape, and bringing an awesome North army back into Winterfell. I hope this is one of the battles that was pushed that we see in WoW. And perhaps Asha and co. and the northmen who were with that host will join in too.

Stannis, also don't think he's important, or not as important as Mel. I'll still on the fence about how I feel about her magic and such, but she did that weird leech burning thing, and if those things were full of king's blood (as it's needed to do this weird red magic crap) and it turns out what she did actually set into motion the events to kill Renly, Joff, and Robb, then that's why Stannis is alive. But she's not gonna need Stannis for long.

On the topic of Mel, I don't see her and Jon being allies at all, ever. Actually, because of that leech thing, and if Jon finds out about it, I feel (hope) his reaction would be a bit "WTF woman?" But if she brings him back with that kiss, as UnJon, that'll change it all. In an interview somewhere, someone mentions about Cat losing her POV once she becomes UnCat, because she's no longer the woman we knew and death changes a person, so the same should go for Jon.

And someone needs to go down into those damn Stark crypts! Thats obviously going to happen after the fight for Winterfell, but the only one I see realistically going in there would be Jon. Or Bran by way of greenseeing, but Jon seems to have uber-prophetic dreams about the crypt. In GoT he dreams about Winterfell being empty/abandoned/what have you, but he's says he's specifically looking for his father and Robb, both now dead, as well as Arya and his uncle Ben. I'm thinking those latter two are going to bite it for real somehow, and Jon is going to have to face whatever that means when he goes down into the crypt.

I'll cut it there for now. xD

[Slurms McKenzie]

Blackfish swimming up the river to Howland Reed, also maybe with that one Westerling guy Raynard (I think thats his name) who also jumped in a river to escape, and bringing an awesome North army back into Winterfell.

I was unaware that one of the Westerlings remained loyal to Robb! Is this true?

[Stannis the Great]

I was unaware that one of the Westerlings remained loyal to Robb! Is this true?

At the Red Wedding he (Raynald Westerling) managed to get outside and surrendered his arms when asked. However when the Freys attempted to kill Grey Wind he grabbed a sword and freed the direwolf. He was then shot with crossbows and stumbled into the river.

Also you're forgetting about Jeyne. She definitely remained loyal to Robb.

[Babeldygob]

What I think will play a big role in the coming book, is that the South will become aware of the Others, that they are real and they are on their way to kill anything that lives and nobody seems to be able to stop them. It would be very interesting and also quite amusing to see how the South is going to react to walking corpses and dead things with shiny armor who raise the dead. Tptwp and AA will be the last book, not this one.

There will be someone from the South who has to say at some point: "It's time to lay aside our wars, fights and houses, it's time to rally NORTH or we are all doomed!" Thumbs up for Jaime? That would be sooo goddamn cool!

Also, remember the Stark words: Winter Is Coming...

WINTER HAS COME

This is the time they prepare for their whole lives, it has been for ages!

[raenasnow]

"However when the Freys attempted to kill Grey Wind he grabbed a sword and freed the direwolf. He was then shot with crossbows and stumbled into the river."

where did it say that? i thought they sowed grey winds head onto robb's body? also something else i was wondering about.. when cat met jeyne she kept saying that she had "good hips" whatever that means.. i'm assuming big ones... but jamie said that the jeyne he saw had narrow hips... coincidence?

perhaps, just maybe, there is another jeyne running around somewhere with a little baby stark! that'd be sick.

[GreenAppleFossoway]

I predict some sort of Holy Crusade being called by the faith against the Others, or Dany, or whoever is their enemy at the time. Which would also give Sandor a reason to go to KL!

[Stark@heart]

Sandor can't go to KL, he abandoned the Lannisters remember? He's got no friends or allies anywhere except for the little island he's hiding out on now. I see Sandor hanging out on the island til the Blackfish washes up and then they go together to the Vale. Meanwhile in the Vale, Sansa has killed LF and while all the Lords appreciate the deed, they still think she's his daughter and a kinslayer and are getting ready to show her to the moon door when she spots Sandor in the crowd and calls for trial by combat, Sandor saves her again. Then all the Vale Lords know who she is and declare her Robb's heir and Queen of the North. Then they all want to marry her for her claim but she outsmarts them and marries Sandor, who takes the Stark name for his own. Then the full force of the Vale rides out under the Direwolf banner to kick ass and take back Winterfell.

[Cotter_Pyke]

"However when the Freys attempted to kill Grey Wind he grabbed a sword and freed the direwolf. He was then shot with crossbows and stumbled into the river."

where did it say that? i thought they sowed grey winds head onto robb's body? also something else i was wondering about.. when cat met jeyne she kept saying that she had "good hips" whatever that means.. i'm assuming big ones... but jamie said that the jeyne he saw had narrow hips... coincidence?

perhaps, just maybe, there is another jeyne running around somewhere with a little baby stark! that'd be sick.

Raynald Westerling stays with Grey wind when the wolf refuses to enter the Twins. When the Freys come to kill Grey Wind RW frees the wolf, who kills several several men (iirc). Both are killed with crossbows in the end :(

The Jeyne Westerling thing is still being discussed ;)

[tze]

Both are killed with crossbows in the end :(

Actually, Raynald Westerling supposedly got hit and then fell into the river---the Freys assume he died but nobody actually saw him die. And more importantly, he's mentioned in the Appendix of AFFC but GRRM doesn't put those little parentheses around his name that GRRM uses to indicate that someone's dead. So I don't think we can assume that Raynald is dead just yet.

[Whatever]

Actually, Raynald Westerling supposedly got hit and then fell into the river---the Freys assume he died but nobody actually saw him die. And more importantly, he's mentioned in the Appendix of AFFC but GRRM doesn't put those little parentheses around his name that GRRM uses to indicate that someone's dead. So I don't think we can assume that Raynald is dead just yet.

what about the appendix in Dance? I'm too lazy to go to my bedroom, take the book and check..

[BrosBeforeSnows]

Tommen will die. Aegon will capture Storm's End, and accept the fealty of Dorne. Cersei will freak out and send Tommen back to Casterly Rock in disguise. Since the southern route is blocked by Aegon's army, Tommen will have to travel north through the Riverlands, where he'll be captured by Lady Stoneheart and hanged.

[BrosBeforeSnows]

Drogon will burn the Dothraki outriders to a crisp and then desert Dany and fly away, leaving her there with a couple fried scouts at her feet. Jhoqo will capture her and drag her back to the Dosh Kaleen, kicking and screaming. However, once she gets there, Drogon will return and Dany will win the allegiance of the Crones and all the Dothraki, just as it was said in the prophecies.

"Beneath the Mother of Mountains, a line of naked crones crept from a great lake and knelt shivering before her, their grey heads bowed".

[tze]

what about the appendix in Dance? I'm too lazy to go to my bedroom, take the book and check..

Raynald isn't mentioned at all in the Appendix for ADWD. The only Westerling that I can find mentioned is Gawen Westerling, Reynald's (and Jeyne's) father, who is listed as Lord of the Crag with no other information. Jeyne herself isn't mentioned either.

[Whatever]

Raynald isn't mentioned at all in the Appendix for ADWD. The only Westerling that I can find mentioned is Gawen Westerling, Reynald's (and Jeyne's) father, who is listed as Lord of the Crag with no other information. Jeyne herself isn't mentioned either.

i got it. i wonder was this means..

[Moorkh]

Jon dies.

Ned was a major character in AGoT but died. So can Jon