[ADwD spoilers] Winds of Winter speculation, II

[lordthade]

Random guesstifications:

-- Dany unites the dothraki.

-- Selmy leads the Unsullied and the Mereenese to victory against the diseased and fractured slavers. He's aided by the arrival of the Ironborn to break the blockade and open the port. The Yunkai are crushed and Selmy ascends to "hand" status in Dany's court.

-- Voltanis is about to be slapped for... well... deserving it. Tyrion will help, too. Tyrion will prove himself a battlefield/cyvasse commander of Tywin-like ability.

-- Winterfell falls... but without a fight. Stannis walks in to find the Boltons and Manderleys completely at each others' throats and the castle largely abandoned. Roose and Ramsay are gone and the letter was a last act of frustration before deciding to run as soon as the weather allowed. No battle, and no glory. Stannis gets basically nothing for his efforts except the bragging rights of Winterfell and a non-Stark. He needs to finish the Boltons before anything else.

-- Bran and Arya need to finish their training, but must come to grips with who they are. They can't disappear from their own shadows.

-- Brienne and Jamie are a toss-up. Brienne might be willing to violate her oaths to free the man that saved her from the sellswords. I will go out on a limb and say Jamie kills UnCat and maybe even the skinny red priest that is raising up these horrors. GRRM has taken pains to show us Jamie training with his left hand and we should expect to see him either fight for Brienne or for Cersei.

-- Robert Strong wins. Cersei will not lose her test of faith. The issue of WHO he fights won't matter. The interesting part will be when the High Septon figures out later that the very thing Cersei chose as her champion was an abomination. It should set up King's Landing for some very ugly intrigue and might be what finally brings Sandor to the capitol.

-- Sam is crushed by the news of the happenings at The Wall, but his devotion to duty (and Jon's orders) will keep him going. The dragonglass and his own experiences beyond The Wall may awaken some in the South to the terrors being unleashed. The threat of the Ironborn and war between Highgarden and Dorne will delay any response.

-- Dorne marches after the death of the Prince. They may initially rally to Aegon, but I think Arianne won't settle for a boy as her husband or equal and the union won't last.

-- The Vale finally brings its considerable weight into the war. Too many possibilities to list, but I'm hoping to see Sansa claim Winterfell and march to the North. Littlefinger will not be happy.

-- Asha and Theon... I'm going to guess GRRM leaves them with Stannis for now. By the end, they may be seeking an alliance with the Ironborn under the Damphair and Reader and the Northmen.

-- Rickon and Davos return... giving Stannis a real-- if temporary-- claim to Winterfell. Sansa will dash that.

-- Mance... is a survivor. I'm going to guess he hides in the Stark crypts like Bran did and the info that Ramsay got for the letter came from a Spearwife and his own twisted head.

[RobertOfTheHouseBaratheon]

At some point we are going to see Sansa's identity revealed in the Vale with Jamie and Sandor racing to protect her whilst Cersei dispatches Robert Strong out of blinding hatred of her (as per Bran's dream of the shadows in GoT).

[Babeldygob]

Many people seem to forget how Dany swore to kill khal Jhaqo, I, for one, don't see her forsaking her promise TBH

If I look back I am lost. "It was a cruel fate," Dany said, "yet not so cruel as Mago's will be. I promise

you that, by the old gods and the new, by the lamb god and the horse god and every god that lives. I

swear it by the Mother of Mountains and the Womb of the World. Before I am done with them, Mago

and Ko Jhaqo will plead for the mercy they showed Eroeh."

The Dothraki exchanged uncertain glances. "Khaleesi, " the handmaid Irri explained, as if to a child,

"Jhaqo is a khal now, with twenty thousand riders at his back."

She lifted her head. "And I am Daenerys Stormhorn, Daenerys of House Targaryen, of the blood of

Aegon the Conqueror and Maegor the Cruel and old Valyria before them. I am the dragon's daughter,

and I swear to you, these men will die screaming. Now bring me to Khal Drogo."

[Melifeather]

Many people seem to forget how Dany swore to kill khal Jhaqo, I, for one, don't see her forsaking her promise TBH

I had forgotten this passage. Then at the end of ADWD, Dany will probably kill Khal Jhaqo with Drogo and take over his people.

[Pliskin]

Maybe she'll get back her khalassar.

The dothraki follow the strongest khal. If she kills Jhaqo, she gets the khalassar.

And I definitely see her do this with all the khalassars :D

[3 Headed Direwolf]

Here is what I think happens:

I think Tommen dies at some point in book 6, probably at the hands of Varys. Cersei being a paranoid mess blames it on Tyrion who she thinks is living in the walls.

Mycella becomes Queen, causing serious problems for Dorne because they're knee deep in insurrection plots but now have the new Queen's promised King in Trystane Martell.

Robert Strong wastes whoever the Faith throws in front of him, thus freeing Cersei.

Between Cersei further pissing them off and the presence of their eternal rivals, Dorne, in King's Landing, The Reach is going to most likely going to cause a major conflict, and most likely get pwned.

Victarion smashes the naval blockade at Mereen, only to end up getting killed somehow. Possibly because Drogon eats him.

With a new fleet of ships at her command Dany crosses the Narrow Sea and lands in Westeros by the books end, with Tyrion in tow. A lot of characters like Daario and a few others get killed off in what will be a massive battle at Mereen.

Aegon takes Storm's End, then possibly Dragonstone, that's where he meets Dany.

Jon comes back fairly early in the book (maybe with help from Mel or Bran or both), no longer wanted by the Night's Watch (Bowen Marsh takes control) he leaves, but takes a lot of the Wildlings, Mountain Clans, and other people with him. He meets up with Stannis and co. who are lost in the blizzard, they retake Winterfell. Ramsay dies and most likely Roose too but I could see the latter slinking away to fight another day.

The epilogue is Bowen Marsh screwing the pooch as somehow The Wall comes down and the others storm Westeros.

I don't really know what will happen with the LF/Sansa storyline, Arya's, or the Jamie/Brienne one. It looks like Jamie is riding into a trap but I can't see GRRM killing him or Stoneheart yet. I think Robb's letter naming Jon also disinherits Sansa throwing a major monkey wrench into LF's plans. Arya probably makes it back to Westeros by the end of the book too, finally getting everyone out of the annoying place that is Essos.

[PatrickStormborn]

I don't see the importance of Robb making Jon his heir. It's only significant if a) Bran and Rickon are dead, and b ) if Sansa is married to Tyrion. And it could only be enforced if Robb was still King. If the North rallies under Stannis, Rickon will rule as Lord of Winterfell and Warden of the North.

And I really don't think Jon would claim Winterfell over his brothers and sisters.

[ghost the direwolf]

I'm another who must be in the minority; I don't see Stannis as a major player either.

He's more a plot device than anything- or perhaps it might be more accurate to call him a catalyst.

I don't think it really matters much what happens to him, except insofar as it affects the other characters.

Though perhaps I am biased, since I don't find Stannis very interesting.

Totally with you! :agree:

[ghost the direwolf]

My take on this Is:

Uncat learn form her people that LfF is going the marry his daughter to some Harry. she will realise that LF does not have a child and that it is Sansa. she will force jaimie to fulfill his oath in order to save Brienne and the rest.

Jon the direwolf will have a connection to Bran and the other direwolf . He will learn to warg, unwarg with the help of bran. He will know that the other stark might be alive (Rikon). He will go back to his cold body. and leave the wall to winterfell ( the crypt)

cercei will want to get rid of the Tyrell and in the process will get Tommen killed.

that is it for me.

[1234567]

I think the Twins maybe besieged by the Others. In the story of the Rat Cook, the cook himself is punished by the Gods for breaking guest right and turned into a giant white rat that feeds off its young.

So Walder Frey may be turned into a wight and slowly destroy his own house.

[lordthade]

Please just let UnCat die. Dumbest. Twist. Ever. I was much happier with the concept of Dondarrion out there and he is as-capable of hanging people and being "justice incarnate" if that's what GRRM wants. If she's gone and we have UnBrienne, then please let THAT go, too. *sigh*

[ipsuel]

Please just let UnCat die. Dumbest. Twist. Ever. I was much happier with the concept of Dondarrion out there and he is as-capable of hanging people and being "justice incarnate" if that's what GRRM wants. If she's gone and we have UnBrienne, then please let THAT go, too. *sigh*

I think he *has* to let that stupid character die. Hated her alive, hate her worse dead. (And I don't mean hate in good way, such as how I hated Joffrey).

Look, Brienne isn't gonna hurt Jaime -- no way, no how. If she, Brienne, has more than one brain cell, she can see that Un-Cat is not the same woman as she was back when Brienne swore the oath. The woman she swore to is DEAD, and Jaime is gonna get her to see that *sometimes* -- an oath needs to be broken.

Who better than Jaime to teach her that?

There is no feasible reason to continue Un-Cat. None. Everything can be done with other players. Jaime or Brienne have to kill her. I mean, what purpose could she serve (to the story) that can't be handed (better) by another character.

[3 Headed Direwolf]

I don't see the importance of Robb making Jon his heir. It's only significant if a) Bran and Rickon are dead, and b ) if Sansa is married to Tyrion. And it could only be enforced if Robb was still King. If the North rallies under Stannis, Rickon will rule as Lord of Winterfell and Warden of the North.

And I really don't think Jon would claim Winterfell over his brothers and sisters.

I don't think Jon claims Winterfell either, it's just Robb's letter disinherits Sansa, though you do have a point that Rickon still being alive makes him the next in line over Sansa anyway because he is male (I think Bran is pretty much going to stay where he is). Point is Sansa won't be able to claim Winterfell and LF is going to have to go back to the drawing board.

[Castamere]

Hello, I am new to this forum and as a big fan of Game of Thrones I have to say that I really love the discussions and the topics!

I love the theories put forth in these discussions about how Cersei will die. After reading a few of the wonderful posts I realized I have a sort of different theory on how Cersei will meet her death at the hand of a younger brother. The prophecy is very intriguing and I think that Cersei will die as an indirect result of Jamie's actions. In A Dance With Dragons Jamie has been practicing sword fighting with his good hand, not the golden one, so he certainly would love the chance to prove he is still the greatest swordsman in Westeros. If Brienne is taking him to Stoneheart they could set Jamie up by informing him of his sister's trial and the combat. Jamie, who feels the need to prove himself as still being a great swordsman, is already upset with his sister for taking other lovers so he rides to the trial announces he will fight against Cersei's champion Robert Strong allowing his sister to realize he knows about the other trysts. Jamie defeats Robert Strong and this is how Cersei dies, not directly at Jamie's hands, but because Jamie defeated her champion. Cersei is put to death by drowining or posion (tears could be an analogy for the Tears of Lys)?

This is just a scenerio that I thought could be a possibility.

[Silent_Hero]

Stannis will strangle her, she feared him the most out of everyone because of his justice and well because he's Stannis really.

[Karish Stark]

"To go north, you must go south. To reach the west, you must go east. To go forward you must go back, and to touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow."

Asshai, Dany thought. She would have me go to Asshai. "Will the Asshai'i give me an army?" she demanded. "Will there be gold for me in Asshai? Will there be ships? What is there in Asshai that I will not find in Qarth?"

"Truth," said the woman in the mask. And bowing, she faded back into the crowd.

I would really like to see Dany fulfill the prophecy above. Going to Asshai first and possibly finding Lightbringer there and then reaching Westeros from the western shores and possibly being the one to save Jon. Though I think with how slow her chapters move, she might only reach Asshai at the end of TWOW and then reach Westeros in the next book.

For me, Lightbringer could be anywhere. I don't see anything pointing to Jon finding it at the wall. Unless by killing someone/something he loves with Longclaw he transforms that to Lightbringer? Though Ygritte is already dead so that only leaves Ghost? Not too sure about this.

I really like the theory of Jamie being Cersei's Valonqar. Although I dont want to see him die so quick after he seems to be trying to redeem himself. And it will be more satisfying to see Tyrion finish her for the way she has treated him.

As for Aegon, I am such a prophecy believer I think he is fake :dunno: Unless there is another mummer's dragon.

Anyone have an idea why Tyrion is headed in Dany's direction? Drawing a big blank with this one.

[Patchface12]

Shitmouth is the prologue character. He and the Mountain's men get hanged by the Blackfish and his outlaws, the Blackfish wanting to rescue his master at arms and captain of the guards that were traveling with the Mountain's men to take the black as well as punish the men who savaged the Riverlands.

Roose is killed by Ramsay somehow

Dany wins the Dothraki somehow and burns Mereen to the ground since it's dying of the flux

[Travex]

- Robert Strong aka UnGregor is so strong and seemingly unbeatable that I think Martin will throw us for a loop and have him actually lose. Not sure if it would be due to Sandor, or Qyburn betraying Cersei, but I think he will lose. Cersei will die. No one is left to fill in for the Lannisters and the Tyrells take over.

- When Dany eventually gets to Westeros, Stannis (who at that point controls the North) will bend the knee to her. It would satisfy his moral code since technically the throne should be hers and not him.

- Arya will be sent to assassinate Jon (who has since been reanimated by Mel). He fends her off, sees Needle, queue teary reunion scene.

- Victarion will die in Meereen but Dany will make good use of his ships.

[SetecAstronomy]

I don't anyone to kill Ramsay Bolton other than Theon Greyjoy.

With a little help from Ramsay's bitches. I have a sneaking suspicion that those dogs' fondness for Theon will help him greatly at a critical moment.

[Pliskin]

With a little help from Ramsay's bitches. I have a sneaking suspicion that those dogs' fondness for Theon will help him greatly at a critical moment.

OMG, that would be awesome.

The symbolism of that... since they got the names of the girls Ramsay tortured and killed...

Nice catch. GRRM can't do anything but this.