Sandor Clegane 3

[Black Amethyst]

The only claim Sansa will ever try to make on Casterly Rock is the claim of ripping it down, stone by stone, and sowing the ground over with salt. But it seems much more likely that Dany will get the honors, there.

Cersei is currently the lady of Casterly Rock. Kevan says so, and it is even in the appendix. After her it is Tommen and then Myrcella. After them it is Lancel, and Lancel's brother.

I thought Lancel's brother died??? I thought he had no living siblings. Wow cool, now I get to start a Lancel as Lord of Casterly Rock ship.

*goes to look through appendices*

[littlespider]

The only claim Sansa will ever try to make on Casterly Rock is the claim of ripping it down, stone by stone, and sowing the ground over with salt.

This sounds to me like a Tywin Lannister move against an enemy house. Where in the heck in Sansa's narrative does she ever demonstrate this kind of Aemillianian aggression?

She hates Lannisters (though she grudgingly suspects Tyrion's kindness to her in not consummating their marriage), but sheesh. There is NO evidence that this is in Sansa's agenda or ever would be. She ain't on a warpath.

I'm always happy to complain about Tyrion (who gets way too much love, and way too much whitewashing)

And many, of course, say precisely the same thing about Sandor. Just sayin'.

I love and whitewash both of them equally -- I don't make excuses for what appear to be both of their most heinous deeds, the murder of Mycah and the murder of Shae.

Haven't yet concluded how I read the Tysha disaster, as from my perspective I don't have enough info to come to a clear conclusion.

[Black Amethyst]

I'm always happy to complain about Tyrion (who gets way too much love, and way too much whitewashing) but now I just think you are being mean to him. :lol: He was trying to make an effort to teach Pod some things there, like when LF gives Sansa the roll of arms for Vale lords.

Tyrion could be a lot better with Pod, but I don't think he is deliberately mean. He just doesn't quite know or really care about how best to work around his shy personality. I do think Brienne was better for him.

I don't think he was deliberately mean either. I just read a lot more indifference from him, regarding Pod. Could just be my skewed perception.

[Black Amethyst]

This sounds to me like a Tywin Lannister move against an enemy house. Where in the heck in Sansa's narrative does she ever demonstrate this kind of Aemillianian aggression?

She hates Lannisters (though she grudgingly suspects Tyrion's kindness to her in not consummating their marriage), but sheesh. There is NO evidence that this is in Sansa's agenda or ever would be. She ain't on a warpath.

You don't think that would be cool though? Sansa on a warpath? She'd need a pretty big army for that war. but I think Alexia was speaking somewhat figuratively.

[Alexia]

This sounds to me like a Tywin Lannister move against an enemy house. Where in the heck in Sansa's narrative does she ever demonstrate this kind of Aemillianian aggression?

She hates Lannisters (though she grudgingly suspects Tyrion's kindness to her in not consummating their marriage), but sheesh. There is NO evidence that this is in Sansa's agenda or ever would be. She ain't on a warpath.

I just really want her to be. She can have the Rains of Castamere playing while the trebuchets are flinging stones, and get the trebuchets started with the Lannister siblings, one per trebuchet. Do we need antlers? Yes, I think we need antlers.

/vicious streak...

[brashcandy]

Ok, I'm the worse on who's the rIghtful owner/inheritor of what, but I really do think as honey said that Sansa could make a claim for Casterly Rock or at least she would be the lady there if Tyrion returned and found a way to get rid of Cersei etc. If Tyrion shows up with a lot of gold and/or some dragons and an army, who is going to stand in his way?

[Damar]

Reading BWB, I found it rather interesting Sansa helps out Lancel with his wound while screaming at herself for helping a Lannister when they all ought to die.

[headtrip_honey]

I thought KL was a bad situation for Pod, all around. I saw him gaining confidence when he was finally out of there, in AFFC. The heraldry thing I perceived differently too. I think it was meant to illustrate that Pod is smart and has a lot of potential that we just didn't see. That and Tyrion was just too lazy (or didn't care) to explain who all was coming so he had Pod recite it for him.

Now that I think of it, Tyrion pretty much just took for granted that Pod saved his life. I don't think he properly thanked him or anything. He certainly didn't honour him. Probably thought it was beneath him. I don't hate Tyrion, but he's not perfect.

It's funny how differently people see things.

I'm going over BWB right now, and when Tyrion first wakes up after the battle, he sees Pod, doesn't want him to go, and later thinks, "He would have cut me in half if Pod had not...Pod, where's Pod?"

And then later,

"It was Pod on the bridge of boats, the lad saved my life."

In his speech he's quite brusque with Pod, but he did just get his face chopped off, and he says that he's angry at his own weakness.

You're right that he never properly thanks Pod, but I do think he had affection for Pod. I think he pitied him, but he did treat him more as a servant, and not as a peer.

And when Pod was reciting the heraldry, it's mentioned that he'd been studying it at Tyrion's behest, and Tyrion had him recite them to give "the boy some pride...that he badly needed."

Again, I think Tyrion was trying, but he was doing it from a tough love angle rather than being gentle. But that was my own reading, and I can see how other people see it differently. Just how we see Sandor differently! //back on topic now, I swear.

[Alexia]

I thought Lancel's brother died??? I thought he had no living siblings. Wow cool, now I get to start a Lancel as Lord of Casterly Rock ship.

*goes to look through appendices*

I thought one of them was still alive -- Martyn, or something? But I could be really confused.

[Black Amethyst]

I'm always happy to complain about Tyrion (who gets way too much love, and way too much whitewashing)

I'm still hoping for that "Tyrion is going to die by the end of the story" thread :P

[Alexia]

I'm still hoping for that "Tyrion is going to die by the end of the story" thread :P

:lol:

Gosh. We'll see if maybe I have time to write it up tonight and submit it in the ADWD forum.

[headtrip_honey]

The only claim Sansa will ever try to make on Casterly Rock is the claim of ripping it down, stone by stone, and sowing the ground over with salt. But it seems much more likely that Dany will get the honors, there.

Cersei is currently the lady of Casterly Rock. Kevan says so, and it is even in the appendix. After her it is Tommen and then Myrcella. After them it is Lancel, and Lancel's brother.

Ah, but Kevan's dead.

I'm not saying she will, I'm just saying she COULD. Like how Robert's claim to the Iron Throne wasn't the strongest, but he made it anyway.

And if she did, she'd do it for political reasons, not because she WANTS it. ::shudder:: She'd use its power to nuke her enemies.

[Black Amethyst]

I thought one of them was still alive -- Martyn, or something? But I could be really confused.

I *think* that Lancel is it now, as far as Kevan's kids. I thought I read that he had older brothers that died, and that was part of the reason that Kevan wanted him off and getting married and having babies immediately, which failed miserably. The other part of the reason being that Lancel was pulled into a multi-tiered incest situation that Kevan was totally disgusted with. I wouldn't want my kid in KL either.

I also think he is the only first cousin. Because I don't remember hearing any mention of any other siblings that Tywin and Kevan had. I think it was just those two.

My bad, I was wrong. Genna Lannister is Tywin's sister. So there are a couple other first cousins still living. But they are Freys, so don't count. hah! And Tyrek Lannister is a first cousin too. He's probably dead though. "The Nursemaid". Enough of my derail.

[Alexia]

I also think he is the only first cousin. Because I don't remember hearing any mention of any other siblings that Tywin and Kevan had. I think it was just those two.

Genna Lannister, and Gerion (who disappeared). And then Daven Lannister is a cousin, but I don't remember how. Joy Hill is also a first cousin but on the wrong side of the blankets.

I believe that Genna had three sons, counting the unfortunate Ser Cleos. All those sons are in line after Kevan's children.

[brashcandy]

What is the state of Casterly Rock now btw? Supposedly pretty intact right and still full of gold. Cersei will want to access it, but she needs to remain in KL to keep Tommen on the throne etc etc. So who is currently in residence there? Kevan's wife?

[Été]

Doesn't Kevan have twin boys younger than Lancel? I'm sure one of them was one of the squires Rickard Karstark lost his head over. That leaves one. And now that Lancel has joined the Warrior's Sons, he has given up all claim to lands and castles so he's out of the line of succession, just like Jaime.

ETA: Ser Daven, the guy Jaime met at the siege of Riverrun, is Warden of the West, and another cousin called Damion was named castellan of Casterly Rock after Kevan turned down Cersei's offer.

[Rinso]

I also think he is the only first cousin. Because I don't remember hearing any mention of any other siblings that Tywin and Kevan had. I think it was just those two.

Tywin and Kevan had two more brothers and a sister. The brothers (Gerion and Tygett) are dead and the sister (Genna) is married to a Frey, and has children of her own. That's not counting cousins like Daven, and nephews and nieces, and then there are lesser branches of the House like those in Lannisport. The Lannisters are actually quite a numerous family.

[Alexia]

Tywin and Kevan had two more brothers and a sister. The brothers (Gerion and Tygett) are dead and the sister (Genna) is married to a Frey, and has children of her own. That's not counting cousins like Daven, and nephews and nieces, and then there are lesser branches of the House like those in Lannisport. The Lannisters are actually quite a numerous family.

I actually believe either the missing Tyrek (who has been focused on way too much to not be important) or Daven will be the winning Lord Lannister in ADOS.

But (to get back on topic) no way would it be Sansa. The only way she would be able to make a claim is if she had a child by Tyrion, and after Tyrion killed Tywin the Lannisters would all fall over laughing if she tried advance that claim. None of them would back her, and she would need an army to take the Rock.

[headtrip_honey]

I actually believe either the missing Tyrek (who has been focused on way too much to not be important) or Daven will be the winning Lord Lannister in ADOS.

But (to get back on topic) no way would it be Sansa. The only way she would be able to make a claim is if she had a child by Tyrion, and after Tyrion killed Tywin the Lannisters would all fall over laughing if she tried advance that claim. None of them would back her, and she would need an army to take the Rock.

Well who's to say she won't have one? My point is, anything's possible. Who knows where the story will go?

That's my last comment on this - it was really just far-fetched speculation that began with an offhand comment intended to squick me out, heh.

Back to Sandor! Errr....where were we?

[Black Amethyst]

Doesn't Kevan have twin boys younger than Lancel? I'm sure one of them was one of the squires Rickard Karstark lost his head over. That leaves one. And now that Lancel has joined the Warrior's Sons, he has given up all claim to lands and castles so he's out of the line of succession, just like Jaime.

He..did, and they were in one appendix, but I could have sworn that those were the two that the Tullys offed in Feast. Because they were hostages. I think they got killed. But I could be hallucinating. I thought Jaime found out when he went in there and he was pissed.