Sandor Clegane 4

[brashcandy]

Hi, everyone! Like OwnsARiver, this is my first time posting on a forum, ever! None of the ASOIAF fans I know in RL are Hound fans ( :( ), so this is the only place where I can discuss my favorite character and favorite pairing! :D (Plus I've noticed that you guys are just more entertaining in general than most of the rest of the forum...XD).

A lot of ideas have been floating around in my head for awhile that I haven't seen show up in these threads yet (though who knows, maybe they're back in Sandor Clegane 1). For instance, about warging, I've often thought that Arya warging Nymeria will be the way that Arya gets back in contact with Sansa... somehow. But if Sansa does warg at any point, would you guys be more in favor of it if it made her situation worse rather than being the deus ex machina that saves her? Not sure how that would work, but anyway...

Welcome Syngraphea :) and thanks for making the Sandor thread have the honour of your first post! You of course can request Sisterhood membership as soon as you're ready.

Now as to the part I pulled from your post - what you said about Arya warging Nymeria to get back in touch with Sansa triggered something in my mind. We know that Lady was not the wolf responsible for the attack on Joffrey and that she was the unfortunate scapewolf (?) of Cersei's anger because Nymeria had been chased off by Arya.

Now wouldn't it be great if Sansa actually comes into contact with Nymeria and is able to warg her? Kinda like a warg surrogate or warg adoption, and it would be totally fitting since Lady was unfairly killed in the first place. We talk a lot about Sansa having lost her wolf for good, but she could take her sister's and this might be quite interesting....

And those friends of yours, so not cool, who doesn't love Sandor?? :)

[Syngraphea]

Welcome Syngraphea :) and thanks for making the Sandor thread have the honour of your first post! You of course can request Sisterhood membership as soon as you're ready.

Thanks, brashcandy! ^^ I think I meet all the requirements for Sisterhood membership, don't I? I can squee some more if you'd like. XD

Hmm... not sure I'd like it if Sansa could warg Nymeria, for all the reasons mentioned previously about skilled warging just not fitting with her "ordinary" character. Unless, again, it screwed everything up instead of making her too powerful.

I have another question: When did you all decide that you liked Sandor, if there was a particular moment? For me, I was immediately intrigued the moment he told Sansa about how he got his burns--and then she wasn't scared anymore. I was like, "Awww! Sympathy!" And I could never quite figure out why he told her, I just knew I was glad he did.

[Susan Delgado]

Thanks, brashcandy! ^^ I think I meet all the requirements for Sisterhood membership, don't I? I can squee some more if you'd like. XD

Hmm... not sure I'd like it if Sansa could warg Nymeria, for all the reasons mentioned previously about skilled warging just not fitting with her "ordinary" character. Unless, again, it screwed everything up instead of making her too powerful.

I have another question: When did you all decide that you liked Sandor, if there was a particular moment? For me, I was immediately intrigued the moment he told Sansa about how he got his burns--and then she wasn't scared anymore. I was like, "Awww! Sympathy!" And I could never quite figure out why he told her, I just knew I was glad he did.

I think it would be a shame if Sansa/Alayne doesn't start to demonstrate some warging ability. I'm not saying I'd like to see her as powerful as Bran or Arya but the girl is so desperately lonely (especially without a certain not-a-knight) and it would be sweet to see her bond with an animal. I personally wouldn't want to see her warg Nymeria because she's Arya's direwolf not Sansa's.

I started liking Sandor when he stopped Sansa from killing herself and Joffrey and dabbed at her lip. I was like wtf is going on here?

[1234567]

I have proposed on another thread that he could be Azor Azai or at least take over the BwB and reform them into ass kicking, peasant protection unit.

That's like a crackpot idea I thought had that he will be one of the heads of the dragon, because of a throwaway line in a AFFC!

But this is a good point. If he is still alive and does return to the story, it has to be for a good narrative reason as sadly I don't think it will be Sansa.

[Pihla]

What do you think, what did Sandor think of Tyrion before our favorite dwarf used wildfire as a weapon? I remember only one instance when they were talking – early in the Game of Thrones. There was this stupid joke Sandor made of Tyrion being invisible or something. I always felt that Tyrion kind of respected Sandor.

[Rinso]

Sandor seems to despise Tyrion and considers him to be below the normal human beigns. And after the Imp shamed him publically during the battle of the Blackwater and later he learned that Sansa got married to him, he probably moved him a bit higher on his "To kill" list.

As for Tyrion, he seems to think of him simply as Joffrey's brute.

I don't think that there is any love lost between them.

[R & R]

I have proposed on another thread that he could be Azor Azai or at least take over the BwB and reform them into ass kicking, peasant protection unit.

Innerestin'.

The Gravedigger morphing into AA seems to me a bit of a stretch, but I'm totally in luv with the sound byte that is "peasant protection unit" and its rollicking acronym. Or, y'know, I could just be desperately seeking poetry in anything.

Chatty derailment ---> Oh, and Bourne? Sure, these ladies aren't hesitant when it comes to the occasional -- and well deserved -- smackdown, but, y'see, they're both informative and hella fun.

[Alexia]

Sandor seems to despise Tyrion and considers him to be below the normal human beigns. And after the Imp shamed him publically during the battle of the Blackwater and later he learned that Sansa got married to him, he probably moved him a bit higher on his "To kill" list.

As for Tyrion, he seems to think of him simply as Joffrey's brute.

I don't think that there is any love lost between them.

I thought it was interesting when Tyrion compared the loser in a dog fight (who had half his face bitten off) and said he looked like Sandor (which chapter/book is that in...I can't find it again for some reason?). I think he thinks of him as Joffrey's brutes, but I also think he seems to be a bit invested in keeping him in his place -- you notice that with some really rude comments, like when Sandor said at the opening of ACOK that he heard Tyrion had died.

I agree with your perception of Sandor's thoughts on Tyrion. I dare say some of it is anger that Tyrion is deformed, not a fighter, and somehow comes across as happier than Sandor is with a significantly better life. And of course, between the battle and the marriage -- I do rather pity Tyrion if Sandor encounters him.

[OwnsARiver]

Haha. So, what do you think? Does Sandor have a foot fetish? Or something more frightening?

Ohh...I live in the wrong time code, much fun has passed while i slept and worked.... Late lunch check for me now..

I don`t know about the foot fetish (but the reactions for this panel to it was magnificent! Ha ha! Great idea!), but somebody some threads ago mentioned him dirty talking her (he could dirty talk me all day long.....).

What if its the other way around? You know, when she is starting to get comfortable with him (the virginity done, learning the pleasures) -and then ladylike trying to say dirty things, in an all too innocent, polished style.

His mouth will start twitching into a grin, laughter in his eyes (bet KL whores are masters of DT-and she is just sweet in comparison), but then suddenly finding himself aroused like hell? I would love to read how his expression changes :blushing:

It would give us Sisters lots of hilarious conversations to read too, with lots of undertones :D I hope to all gods that he does`nt go sniffing her hair all the time..shudders.... or have her hanging upsidedown in the chandelier (the mere thought frightens me...).. :stillsick:

It has been discussed many good theories about how they possibly could end up together/meeting up again. But how do you folks think their next meeting (If it EVER happens...) will play out? Hopes it to play out?

[Rinso]

Hopefully, there won't be any foot fetishes involved... :uhoh:

[headtrip_honey]

Hopefully, there won't be any foot fetishes involved... :uhoh:

Honestly, if there's foot ANYTHING, I can see it going down in the sense of Sandor being mesmerized by how delicate and unscarred Sansa is. So he may ruminate on her feet a bit. I don't see it being all OMGFEET :drool: , but more as a general observation.

Her feet, if things stay as they are, would be soft, and fairly un-calloused. And CLEAN, if Sansa has any say in the matter. Which would likely be a novelty to him, considering his own body, which is hard, calloused, and full of scars, and also who we can assume to have been his past bedfellows.

[OwnsARiver]

Honestly, if there's foot ANYTHING, I can see it going down in the sense of Sandor being mesmerized by how delicate and unscarred Sansa is. So he may ruminate on her feet a bit. I don't see it being all OMGFEET , but more as a general observation.

Her feet, if things stay as they are, would be soft, and fairly un-calloused. And CLEAN, if Sansa has any say in the matter. Which would likely be a novelty to him, considering his own body, which is hard, calloused, and full of scars, and also who we can assume to have been his past bedfellows.

I quite imagine him to have an "all over sansa" fetish, like every single part of her is what he desires more than anything. Your description fits my thoughts on the subject nicely (and of course I hope Sansa will desire him for all his you mentioned about him above... )

Poor guy freaked out every time she touched him in an intimate way (shoulder, face). So if Q.I gives him a bit more peace in his mind , at least towards Sansa, he will hopefully be in a bliss no matter where he`ll be allowed to touch her... :wub:

[littlespider]

Hmm... not sure I'd like it if Sansa could warg Nymeria, for all the reasons mentioned previously about skilled warging just not fitting with her "ordinary" character. Unless, again, it screwed everything up instead of making her too powerful.

The other thing: despite George's comment that all the Stark children are full wargs, Sansa has so far demonstrated no clear warging at all. She has a kind of affinity for animals, but she's never been in the position to see things directly from the perspective of another creature.

Unless... let's think about her capacity for empathy for a moment. Unforeseen "instincts" that convince her to comfort someone who is in pain. Realizing clearly on her wedding night that Tyrion is as scared as she is (I'll dig up the quote later).

I don't see this as literal warging -- she'd be the weakest warg -- but she certainly has insights into the minds of other people that many of our other POVs don't have a capacity for.

I started rooting for Sandor the minute he declared that he liked dogs better than people.

[headtrip_honey]

I quite imagine him to have an "all over sansa" fetish, like every single part of her is what he desires more than anything. Your description fits my thoughts on the subject nicely (and of course I hope Sansa will desire him for all his you mentioned about him above... )

Poor guy freaked out every time she touched him in an intimate way (shoulder, face). So if Q.I gives him a bit more peace in his mind , at least towards Sansa, he will hopefully be in a bliss no matter where he`ll be allowed to touch her... :wub:

I think she would. I mean, think of the "men" she's had in her life thus far. (Joff, Tyrion, LF) Almost none of them get their hands dirty EVER (excluding Tyrion in BBW, and that was an exception to the rule). They scheme, they plot, they lie. (Tyrion tends to lie to better purpose than the other two, but my point stands)

Sandor is, above all, honest (with her and Arya, at least). And his scars are a part of that. He cannot hide who he is, what he's done. It's written on his body.

And I think Sansa will appreciate that. Knowing what she is and where she stands with him. (If he can, of course, untie his tongue for a minute to TELL her...) Knowing exactly what kind of man he is. Accepting him for the bad and the good. Because he cannot hide the bad.

[headtrip_honey]

The other thing: despite George's comment that all the Stark children are full wargs, Sansa has so far demonstrated no clear warging at all. She has a kind of affinity for animals, but she's never been in the position to see things directly from the perspective of another creature.

Unless... let's think about her capacity for empathy for a moment. Unforeseen "instincts" that convince her to comfort someone who is in pain. Realizing clearly on her wedding night that Tyrion is as scared as she is (I'll dig up the quote later).

I don't see this as literal warging -- she'd be the weakest warg -- but she certainly has insights into the minds of other people that many of our other POVs don't have a capacity for.

I started rooting for Sandor the minute he declared that he liked dogs better than people.

I also don't think that Sansa, if she develops any warg capability at all, could warg Nymeria. Nymeria is bonded to Arya. I don't think that Sansa could get through that bond.

In the prologue for ADwD, the only time Varamyr mentions taking another warg's animal is either when the warg is dying (Haggon), dead (Orell), or untaught/unaware of his power (Jon). So it would seem to me, although it isn't explicitly stated, that it isn't the easiest thing in the world to take over another warg's animal.

[OwnsARiver]

I think she would. I mean, think of the "men" she's had in her life thus far. (Joff, Tyrion, LF) Almost none of them get their hands dirty EVER (excluding Tyrion in BBW, and that was an exception to the rule). They scheme, they plot, they lie. (Tyrion tends to lie to better purpose than the other two, but my point stands)

Sandor is, above all, honest (with her and Arya, at least). And his scars are a part of that. He cannot hide who he is, what he's done. It's written on his body.

And I think Sansa will appreciate that. Knowing what she is and where she stands with him. (If he can, of course, untie his tongue for a minute to TELL her...) Knowing exactly what kind of man he is. Accepting him for the bad and the good. Because he cannot hide the bad.

Yes! I would like to see her develop from the "Knight of Flowers -girlish fantasies", to tracing every single scar on Sandors body with her fingers (lusting and aching for him). He is the opposite of her shallow start, and this gives tribute to their honest understanding of each other. IF only he manages to tell her...I agree... Sivil just for her, brute to all the shitheads!!

[littlespider]

If SanSan ever meet up again I would love to see him get down on his knees and apologise for forcing her to sing and his awful comments about Ned dancing when they chopped his head off.

If SanSan ever meet up again I would love to see him get down on his knees and apologise for forcing her to sing and his awful comments about Ned dancing when they chopped his head off.

Yes please. This would be more satisfying than any sex scene, no matter how hot.

I also don't want to see Sandor become all pious and lose what makes him so awesome as a character. He needs to stop the drinking and creeping around but he can keep the swearing.

I don't want to see him ultra-pious either, but I want to see him changed on a very deep level. There are ways that George could bring him back from his nadir via sincere religious penance but not Lancel him. (new favorite verb)

Related to this, here's an image of my favorite hooked nose and fierce face from real life. This guy also (in his fiction, at least) willfully walked into an abyss and re-emerged:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dante.deathmask.jpg

[brashcandy]

I also don't think that Sansa, if she develops any warg capability at all, could warg Nymeria. Nymeria is bonded to Arya. I don't think that Sansa could get through that bond.

In the prologue for ADwD, the only time Varamyr mentions taking another warg's animal is either when the warg is dying (Haggon), dead (Orell), or untaught/unaware of his power (Jon). So it would seem to me, although it isn't explicitly stated, that it isn't the easiest thing in the world to take over another warg's animal.

Hmmm, this is true, but to extend the shelf life of my crackpot further :) Arya is one of the faceless men now, and we know they adopt other identities. Since Arya really isn't Arya Stark anymore, Sansa may be able to take over Nymeria more easily.

[headtrip_honey]

Hmmm, this is true, but to extend the shelf life of my crackpot further :) Arya is one of the faceless men now, and we know they adopt other identities. Since Arya really isn't Arya Stark anymore, Sansa may be able to take over Nymeria more easily.

Ah, but she's ISN'T. She's having such a difficult time becoming No One. She keeps having those pesky wolf dreams. I don't think Arya could ever be a FM. Her identity is too strong, in part because of Nymeria.

Lovely quote from ADwD prologue:

"Wolves and women wed for life," Haggon often said. "You take one, that's a marriage. The wolf is part of you from that day on, and you're part of him. Both of you will change."

[Alexia]

I don't really want to want to see Sansa warg Nymeria but I would still love it if it happens, if only because of the simultaneous head combustion of the more rabid and unpleasant of the Arya fans. I might never make it back to the forum afterwards, because I would die of laughter.