The missing sex scene

[Rinso]

Sorry... Love triangle is what I meant.

Taena to Cersei in AFFC:

"When she wed Lord Renly at Highgarden, I helped disrobe him for the bedding. His lordship was a well-made man, and lusty. I saw the proof when we tumbled him into the wedding bed where his bride awaited him as naked as her name day, blushing prettily beneath the coverlets. Ser Loras had carried her up the steps himself. Margaery may say that the marriage was never consummated, that Lord Renly had drunk too much wine at the wedding feast, but I promise you, the bit between his legs was anything but weary when last I saw it.”

I think Renly is bisexual and Loras is gay and completely in love with him.... So in love, he doesn't care the guy beds his sister. This doesn't mean Renly doesn't love Loras, though.

Don't take every word out of Taena's mouth for pure 100 % truth. I always found her shady, and she was way too toady with Cersei. Who's to say that she didn't just fed her info she knew she wanted to hear? Don't forget that when Cersei crashed down in AFFC, Taena was the first to flee and abandon her. Taena's interests and goals are not necessarily intertwined with Cersei's and she may have conspired against her the whole time.

And Renly may be bisexual, but his reputation is not exactly like this. Oberyn Martell is bisexual, and everyone knows it. With Renly, all everyone brings up when they want to say something snarky about him is his relationship with Loras.

[CrypticWeirwood]

Yes, Renly does sound as a guy who likes to have a good time, but he also is genuinely close to the entire Tyrell family, not only Loras. So, I doubt it was a one-time fling that left young Loras heartbroken or anything like that. And, call it a gut feeling, but he just seems like a nice guy to me. Sure, I may be wrong, but there is nothing that - to me, at least - indicates that he would manipulate and/or molest a 15 years old boy against his will without returning the affection. Yes, in all probability he seduced him, but since when that's some horrible sin? Again, in a world where a heterosexual husband has the full legal right to rape his wife.

Actually, it isn’t fair to say that in all probability the 20-year-old seduced the 15-year-old. I’ve certainly seen it go the other way around often enough.

[CrypticWeirwood]

Renly could be gay and just doing what he had to do :) which is the sense I got from his conversation with Stannis when they met in the field - Stannis was attempting to mock the marriage because he knows that Renly really is gay, and Renly is smug because he knows that Stannis is underestimating what he will do to ensure that his kingship is safe. Something ironically that Stannis - the hetero - is unwilling to do with his own wife to produce another heir!

That’s a really interesting observation. It shows that Renly was also able to put aside his own wants and needs to meet greater goals than himself, something we’ve also seen in Stannis. The question then is what the splat is wrong with Queeze Sleaze?

[Rinso]

Well, that is also a possibility, but I imagine that Loras, being young, inexperienced and in an unfamiliar place, would probably by the more shy of the two. And Renly is the louder personality, the more outspoken and even flamboyant of the two so the image of him being the seducer is more fitting in my mind. But since there is no textual evidence either way, it's up to everyone's imagination.

And there is nothing wrong with Selyse, she's just very unattractive.

[Garlan Tyrell]

That’s a really interesting observation. It shows that Renly was also able to put aside his own wants and needs to meet greater goals than himself, something we’ve also seen in Stannis. The question then is what the splat is wrong with Queeze Sleaze?

It's the 'stache.

TV Loras would know how to sex her up.

[brashcandy]

Don't take every word out of Taena's mouth for pure 100 % truth. I always found her shady, and she was way too toady with Cersei. Who's to say that she didn't just fed her info she knew she wanted to hear? Don't forget that when Cersei crashed down in AFFC, Taena was the first to flee and abandon her. Taena's interests and goals are not necessarily intertwined with Cersei's and she may have conspired against her the whole time.

And Renly may be bisexual, but his reputation is not exactly like this. Oberyn Martell is bisexual, and everyone knows it. With Renly, all everyone brings up when they want to say something snarky about him is his relationship with Loras.

Actually, i think Taena told Cersei the exact truth as to how she saw it, she just didn't know that she was witnessing the great Tyrell/Baratheon masquerade:

When she wed Lord Renly at Highgarden, I helped disrobe him for the bedding. His lordship was a well-made man, and lusty. I saw the proof when we tumbled him into the wedding bed where his bride awaited him as naked as her name day, blushing prettily beneath the coverlets. Ser Loras had carried her up the steps himself. Margaery may say that the marriage was never consummated, that Lord Renly had drunk too much wine at the wedding feast, but I promise you, the bit between his legs was anything but weary when last I saw it.”

She assumes that Marg is waiting naked beneath the coverlets - but in all fact she's probably fully dressed or at least still in her undergarments - which is the whole purpose of having Loras carry her to the room himself. Renly is excited, and is naturally aroused, and he either sleeps with her right there and then, or she leaves and lets him be with Loras. Either way at some point i do think Renly and Marg consummate the marriage. Marg is pretty and not naturally repulsive like Selyse and Renly isn't quite the fool Stannis imagines he is.

Or maybe they had a threesome that night - and yes, i'm serious about this idea :)

Also another crackpot that you guys can tear down, if Marg is a lesbian then is it possible that Taena was her lover?

[Ser Frank Haven]

As a homo , i see renly much more glamorous in the books than on tv. But with the whole sex scene on tv made ot look so fake

[CrypticWeirwood]

As a homo ,

Let us remember the immortal words of Publius Terentius Afer, or Terence as he is most often known in English:

• Homo sum: humani nil a me alienum puto
  

The Fractured Fairytale™ translation of which is of course:

• I’m a fag: none of those alien boy-whores for me! :shocked:
  

i see renly much more glamorous in the books than on tv. But with the whole sex scene on tv made to look so fake

The slurpy sounds were so outrageously over the top that I simply cringed. They could have easily made clear what was going on without descending into vaudeville extremes.

[Bourne]

Well, that is also a possibility, but I imagine that Loras, being young, inexperienced and in an unfamiliar place, would probably by the more shy of the two. And Renly is the louder personality, the more outspoken and even flamboyant of the two so the image of him being the seducer is more fitting in my mind. But since there is no textual evidence either way, it's up to everyone's imagination.

In most cases that might be true, but this is Loras we're talking about. He's the most arrogant character this side of Jaime, I don't think you could really say he's shy and he definitely isn't the type to get nervous by new surroundings. Remember, this isn't our world. At 15 Jaime was already in the Kings guard. Jon is a ranging in the Nights Watch. Robb is ruling the North and leading men into war. In Westeros, 15 is not young and innocent.

[Rinso]

At 15-16, Robb and Jon were young and innocent when it came down to sex. And arrogant as Loras is, Renly has always struck me as the more... vividly and glaringly outspoken. But sure, it's just as possible that it was the other way around. Or maybe it was mutual :dunno:

[brashcandy]

In most cases that might be true, but this is Loras we're talking about. He's the most arrogant character this side of Jaime, I don't think you could really say he's shy and he definitely isn't the type to get nervous by new surroundings. Remember, this isn't our world. At 15 Jaime was already in the Kings guard. Jon is a ranging in the Nights Watch. Robb is ruling the North and leading men into war. In Westeros, 15 is not young and innocent.

This could be true, after all we're talking about the Knight of Flowers here, who's quite accustomed to putting on a show (crowning Sansa at the Tourney, etc) I could definitely see Loras as being the pursuer in the relationship. Renly's gorgeous, the King's brother and a nice guy, so what's not to love?

[Alexia]

She assumes that Marg is waiting naked beneath the coverlets - but in all fact she's probably fully dressed or at least still in her undergarments - which is the whole purpose of having Loras carry her to the room himself.

Margaery was stripped naked in public by a crowd of cheering men. :uhoh:

[brashcandy]

Margaery was stripped naked in public by a crowd of cheering men. :uhoh:

Oh well, my bad :) i never knew it had been stated she was fully stripped, and i thought Loras had just swept her up and taken her to the bedchamber.

[Bourne]

At 15-16, Robb and Jon were young and innocent when it came down to sex. And arrogant as Loras is, Renly has always struck me as the more... vividly and glaringly outspoken. But sure, it's just as possible that it was the other way around. Or maybe it was mutual :dunno:

True, but both Oberyn and Harry the heir had bastards before they were 15, and I think Loras has more in common with both of them than Robb or Jon. I'm not saying Loras seduced Renly, just that I don't see any reason to believe Renly seduced Loras. Personally I think it was a mutual seduction...

[Verboten]

I'm not going to get into too much about the tv show since this is a forum for the books, but I personally found it distastely. Not the act of gay sex, but how it was portrayed. It took in my view all the depth out of their relationship. However, as noted, we're dealing with the books, not the show, and we did not get any description of the act in the books, hence why i feel it was a missed opportunity.

I must disagree. I like TV Renly far better than his book counterpart, because he's not just young gay Robert and actually has his own characterization. For one thing (I believe krakenhead mentioned this) it is far easier to believe that she would fall for someone who was kind to her instead of the arrogant smoking hot stud that's described in the books. And sure the sounds were a bit over the top, but if anything it added more depth to their relationship because it showed them interacting while nobody else was watching. And I didn't see Loras as a manipulative shrew in that scene, I saw him as an arrogant, reckless young man who is absolutely sure that the man he loves would make a good ruler and is frustrated that others don't agree.

[Bourne]

I must disagree. I like TV Renly far better than his book counterpart, because he's not just young gay Robert and actually has his own characterization. For one thing (I believe krakenhead mentioned this) it is far easier to believe that she would fall for someone who was kind to her instead of the arrogant smoking hot stud that's described in the books. And sure the sounds were a bit over the top, but if anything it added more depth to their relationship because it showed them interacting while nobody else was watching. And I didn't see Loras as a manipulative shrew in that scene, I saw him as an arrogant, reckless young man who is absolutely sure that the man he loves would make a good ruler and is frustrated that others don't agree.

She being Brienne.

But I disagree. I hate what they did to Renly in the show. Even if you think it makes more sense that Brienne would fall for him, the rest doesn't make sense. In the book, people love Renly because he's strong, charismatic, handsome, bold, kind and just all around good natured. That's why he inspires such devotion and why so many lords proclaim for him. In the show we see none of that. He's not strong or bold. I saw no charisma, I personally didn't think he was that good looking, and definitely not in a manly way like he should. He's still kind, but that's not enough. The only reason we're supposed to believe he's charismatic enough to rule the kingdoms is because Loras says so.

I also disagree about Brienne. As we've already pointed out Renly is kind and charming. Brienne is used to being shunned by men at best and mocked at worst. Renly is kind to her. No, he doesn't actually show her any affection, but even simple kindness is more than she would expect from a man in his position. I can easily see that inspiring such loyalty, and coupled with the fact that he's quite a handsome devil, have no trouble believing she would think she's in love with him.

Also, I like Renly, and don't think he's just a gay Robert. They have lots of similarities, the obvious physical ones, as well as a certain portion of charisma. But aside from that they're pretty different. Robert is a warrior, he takes joy in battle. Renly likes throwing balls, and attending parties. Robert doesn't so much like the ruling part of being king, whereas Renly has sat on the council and been doing it for him (in part, obviously). Robert has a lot of anger we never see in Renly, nor does Renly have the same tendency for excess that Robert has (in drinking, sex, fighting, etc.). I think the general consensus among the highborn is that Renly would make a good king (admittedly that doesn't necessarily make it true), whereas Robert was not so much.

Robert and Renly are similar, but that's not surprising since they are brothers. They are not the same person with different orientations.

[Spearwife262]

Truth be told, I'd love to read about R+L love AND sex :drool: but I think that GRRM, as great as he is as epic fantsy writer, wouldn't live up to the task! I'd love at least more hints of their relation. Sex scene would be awesome, don't get me wrong, but I'd like to see what the two of them would be like together. I know that Renly is not THAT important in the series, but it's not like he hasn't killed characters that he put time in, gave us time to come to like them. I think this is just one of those things that's out of GRRM's character, so he would be all :blushing: :eek: about it, so maybe it's for the best. If Renly got at least one chapter, he'd have to at least mention feelings they have for each other :love: I don't get GRRM- he has so many incestuous relations through the series(Targeryens, Lannisters), but when it comes to two guys kissing, he just skips over that part! I WANT SOME GAY SEX DESCRIPTIONS, FOR F SAKE!!!! xD

[brashcandy]

Truth be told, I'd love to read about R+L love AND sex :drool: but I think that GRRM, as great as he is as epic fantsy writer, wouldn't live up to the task! I'd love at least more hints of their relation. Sex scene would be awesome, don't get me wrong, but I'd like to see what the two of them would be like together. I know that Renly is not THAT important in the series, but it's not like he hasn't killed characters that he put time in, gave us time to come to like them. I think this is just one of those things that's out of GRRM's character, so he would be all :blushing: :eek: about it, so maybe it's for the best. If Renly got at least one chapter, he'd have to at least mention feelings they have for each other :love: I don't get GRRM- he has so many incestuous relations through the series(Targeryens, Lannisters), but when it comes to two guys kissing, he just skips over that part! I WANT SOME GAY SEX DESCRIPTIONS, FOR F SAKE!!!! xD

Hahahahaha:) Hopefully we'll get a Loras POV or Marg POV in TWOW and he'll give us a nice flashback scene.

unless he's done with new POVs.

[Garlan Tyrell]

There is a famous line about the manner of the Baratheon brothers said by Donal Noye to Jon Snow in the Armory of Castle Black:

“Robert was the true steel. Stannis is pure iron, black and hard and strong, yes, but brittle, the way iron gets. He’ll break before he bends. And Renly, that one, he’s copper, bright and shiny, pretty to look at but not worth all that much at the end of the day.”

I'd say there's enough about each brothers' characters in Noye's line. I mean. The guy lived at Storm's End most of his life until he lost his arm. Both Noye and the old Maester do not have much to say about Renly other than he's shallow.

[Blizzard]

When I watched the series and saw it I thought "I didn't remember that" I looked back and didn't see it. Maybe HBO put it in there to shock the readers?