Knight of Ashes Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Edit: And I totally got Martin's point; Im saying it's inane & illogical, and an extension of how he screwed over her character in AFFC and made her into sexual trope of an evil queen using her evilness sexually and letting us take an inside peek of how a crazy evil bitch would surely act. Why crazy? Because it's laughable that anyone sane would act that way. How is chucking back the semen of the guy you cant fucking stand, whos raped you before even, a powerful act? It's ridiculous. Doubly so that she's enjoying her midnight snack after he's gone to drunken sleep. Had she wiped it off with a tissue and set it on fire to incantations and curses, THEN it might make more sense. Hey, you think Martin was aiming to turn Cersei as his Lady Macbeth? That bit with Robert's seed is arguably as sinister as Lady B asking the forces of darkness to unsex her and turn her "milk to gall' etc. etc.Though I do think he went back to humanizing her (if only briefly) in her last POV chapter in ADwD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chucktown Eagle Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I hate when people say things like, I don't have anything aginst gay people but...but...But, as a straight guy I have no interest in reading a detailed gay sex scene. I would probably just pass over it to the next chapter. I know it's a double standard, because I love the lesbian scenes we have read so far. Girl+Girl=Sexy. Guy+Guy=Gross. I don't need any stories about a dude getting mud on his helmet. My question would be do female readers like two dudes getting it on as much as dudes like two women getting it on? I just can't see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashcandy Posted October 13, 2011 Author Share Posted October 13, 2011 I hate when people say things like, I don't have anything aginst gay people but...but...But, as a straight guy I have no interest in reading a detailed gay sex scene. I would probably just pass over it to the next chapter. I know it's a double standard, because I love the lesbian scenes we have read so far. Girl+Girl=Sexy. Guy+Guy=Gross. I don't need any stories about a dude getting mud on his helmet. My question would be do female readers like two dudes getting it on as much as dudes like two women getting it on? I just can't see it. Yes we do actually, at least I do. It's a rare chance to lose yourself in something erotic that doesn't make you wonder about how the female is being objectified/positioned etc. We females finally get to assume the gaze and it's nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManderlysThirdChin Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I openly laughed out loud when they showed Renly getting domed by Loras on the show. If it would have been in the books, yeah I would have read it. I'm not that uncomfortable with my sexuality that I wouldn't read a L/R sex scene if it was actually a PART of the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashcandy Posted October 13, 2011 Author Share Posted October 13, 2011 That portrayal in the TV show was god awful - totally cheapened the whole thing in my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chucktown Eagle Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Yes we do actually, at least I do. It's a rare chance to lose yourself in something erotic that doesn't make you wonder about how the female is being objectified/positioned etc. We females finally get to assume the gaze and it's nice. Interesting. I never looked at it that way. Thanks for the viewpoint. I think it's hard for guys to see it that way because of the...how to put this....anal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady crackhead Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Hey, you think Martin was aiming to turn Cersei as his Lady Macbeth? That bit with Robert's seed is arguably as sinister as Lady B asking the forces of darkness to unsex her and turn her "milk to gall' etc. etc.Though I do think he went back to humanizing her (if only briefly) in her last POV chapter in ADwD. Right now, I think a couple things: 1) Where do a read a layman's version of MacBeth? Because I like the story, but hate iambic pentameter. And 2) How did I let myself get dragged into an argument over jizz guzzling? Cersei always struck me as a close rendition of Lady MacBeth (did she have a first name?) and especially in that scene. Lady McBeth crossed with Cujo, in his later stages of rabies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashcandy Posted October 13, 2011 Author Share Posted October 13, 2011 Interesting. I never looked at it that way. Thanks for the viewpoint. I think it's hard for guys to see it that way because of the...how to put this....anal. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voodooqueen126 Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I hate when people say things like, I don't have anything aginst gay people but...but...But, as a straight guy I have no interest in reading a detailed gay sex scene. I would probably just pass over it to the next chapter. I know it's a double standard, because I love the lesbian scenes we have read so far. Girl+Girl=Sexy. Guy+Guy=Gross. I don't need any stories about a dude getting mud on his helmet. My question would be do female readers like two dudes getting it on as much as dudes like two women getting it on? I just can't see it.Actually I am a woman and I find getting mud on the helmet gross too. Sodomy is dirty and well have you seen the Kite Runner... it can result in bleeding.So there is a good subsection of women who like guy on guy (Braschcandy says it's to avoid the male gaze) but I personally enjoy the male gaze enough that i have never particularly felt the need to escape it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrosBeforeSnows Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Instead we get two lesbian scenes - Cersei with Taena and Dany with her handmaiden that are so gratuitous (Cersei's more so) as to be laughable, and neither Cersei nor Dany even enjoy the encounters. Yes, what a shame. How dare GRRM write about every guy's fantasy instead of the intimate details of the gay sex going on between Renly and Loras... What was he thinking? Was he trying to sell books, or something? You'd think he almost wanted people to read it... What a sell out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexia Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Sometimes I wonder if people out there are afraid that they will catch the gay or something, if they read homosexual sex scenes between two men. Yes, what a shame. How dare GRRM write about every guy's fantasy instead of the intimate details of the gay sex going on between Renly and Loras... What was he thinking? Was he trying to sell books, or something? You'd think he almost wanted people to read it... What a sell out.However, when confronted with comments like this, I feel a desperate urge to ask why homosexual sex between two men is somehow worse than the threeway between Ramsay, Jeyne, and Theon, or the dwarf sex we all got treated to (if I have a choice in porn between dwarf sex or two men, I'm going for the two men), or incestuous sex on an altar, in a church, next to the bier of their dead son, while the woman is on her period. Really, a loving homosexual relationship and the sexual activities therein between two men is that disgusting, that it would inhibit book sales despite the above listed sexual perversions that have been included? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrenne Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I have to agree with Alexia. He includes sex scenes that are unlikely to push anybody's buttons, male or female, and a few that are just...gross. And what's to say book sales is even factoring much into GRRM's decisions about what sex scenes to include? I also object to the base assumption that having a male-male sex scene would hurt the book's popularity significantly. As a married heterosexual woman, I think guy-guy action is rather hot and I'm quite sure I'm not the only gal in that camp. The existence of slash fiction anyone? Popularity of Mercedes Lackey, Tanith Lee, and Mary Renault just to name a few authors off the top of my head? Those authors' fans include lots of heterosexual women who apparently either don't mind or actually enjoy reading about male-male romances. I do concede that straight women are probably less turned off by female-female scenes than staright men by male-male scenes. I read a study once in which something like ~20% of surveyed straight men indicated they either had already had or would be interested in trying a sexual encounter with a partner of the same sex versus a rather astounding (to me) ~50% (!) of surveyed straight women saying the same. And as far as The Kite Runner, which was cited as an example of how gay sex is gross, what was gross to me in The Kite Runner was the raping of a little boy by an an older boy and then later, by an adult man. It would have been just as gross if it was a little girl being raped. Did I like the book anyway? Yes, because the story was more than just "hey, kid gets raped." Things is, I think most people are able to survive a description of a sex act they find icky when a story is really great and engaging. Indeed with some of the stuff that's in GoT (ugh *barf* Sam/Gilly, all Tyrion sex scenes, etc), I already have. So I just don't think adding gay male sex into the book would affect things that much. If its written grossly, it would just be another gross sex scene among those that already exist. If its written sexily, a segment of the readership would be into it and those that aren't would just dismiss it in among the gross sex scenes category and go on reading.*Edit: Does GRRM know how to write a sexy sex scene? If he tries to write a sexy gay scene, I vote for something involving Satin! Surely Satin would know how to sex a guy up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashcandy Posted October 13, 2011 Author Share Posted October 13, 2011 Yes! Satin would :) And since he's at the wall, even better cause GRRM has severely neglected the homosexuals that we can be SURE are in that organization. Although with the last events of ADWD we may never see such leisurely times again. About Satin though, I feel seriously sorry for him, and in rethinking maybe I wouldn't want him to be in that position unless he's actually in love with someone there :( Jon's treating him with respect made me appreciate Jon's character a lot more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mediocre cheese Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I guess when you think about it, it is weird that there aren't any gay sex scenes, considering how many heterosexual sex scenes we get. I'm not going to say i "missed" them, but if your building a realistic world it would make sense to have homosexuals represented, considering how universal of a practice it is throughout humanity. Obviously if your a straight dude (as I am) your not going to spend your time watching gay porn, but if an interesting book/show/artistic creation has gay characters it would make sense for them to be sexually active, just as heterosexual characters are. The wire and the sopranos are my favorite shows (well I guess GoT too) and both had male sex scenes that provided background to interesting characters. Gay people have sex, old people have sex, ugly people have sex, to write a book or make a tv show where the only people who have sex are the muscle bound guys and big boobed girls makes it unrealistic and porny, weakening it as an artistic creation. In DWD Dany says she gives herself to Daario every way a man can have a woman, clearly implying anal. If a loras-renly sex scene was a five page graphic literary erotic encounter, that would be unnecessary. But something like with dany and daario would probably add to the text. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeheartsansa Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 at the same time, GRRM doesn't need to write a gay sex scene for the purpose of filling some artificial sex quota. it should only be there if it advances the story or enhances someone's development as a character. So far, Connington is the only remotely gay POV character,and he's just had one or two chapters. I doubt we're going to get any gay sex scenes, and I'm pretty much indifferent one way or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashcandy Posted October 13, 2011 Author Share Posted October 13, 2011 at the same time, GRRM doesn't need to write a gay sex scene for the purpose of filling some artificial sex quota. it should only be there if it advances the story or enhances someone's development as a character. So far, Connington is the only remotely gay POV character,and he's just had one or two chapters. I doubt we're going to get any gay sex scenes, and I'm pretty much indifferent one way or another. Yeah but I gotta go with Average Cheese here. I mean ok, GRRM has at least included gay people in the book, but why no gay sex scenes? We get everything else under the sun (as Alexia noted) so why not somthing that is very common. And yes, Dany definitely had anal sex with Daario and enjoyed it too, so I don't get the idea that this kind of sex is inherently gruesome. The fact is that GRRM, except for maybe a very vague reference, has largely ignored the issue of men having consensual sex with each other at the Wall, where I would imagine it is probably rampant. And I think once a man got raped on a boat - can't remember in which POV, but anyways, I'd just like to see an actual scene between two willing adults, not referring to a child prostitute like Satin, and not having it be a rape scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1234567 Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 And I think once a man got raped on a boat - can't remember in which POV, but anyways, I'd just like to see an actual scene between two willing adults, not referring to a child prostitute like Satin, and not having it be a rape scene. Victarion: The Maester who complains to him that the men use him like a girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashcandy Posted October 13, 2011 Author Share Posted October 13, 2011 Victarion: The Maester who complains to him that the men use him like a girl. Thanks Rapsie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeheartsansa Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I mean ok, GRRM has at least included gay people in the book, but why no gay sex scenes? to have a gay sex scene you have to have a gay or bi-curious POV character.. he's not going to go there unless it adds something to the story. There is plenty of this going on behind the scenes at the wall, I am sure, but unless Sam or Jon are involved we are not going to see it. Unless they are going downstairs to check on the turnip supply and accidentally walk in on somebody . . . But overall, I think it's like asking, why don't they have more badminton scenes? Or why aren't there any gay sex scenes on the Office? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemon Cake Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 to have a gay sex scene you have to have a gay or bi-curious POV character.. he's not going to go there unless it adds something to the story. Well, he's got Jon Connington as a POV now, so it could happen. But then, Jon C doesn't seem interested in anyone who isn't Rhaegar, so maybe not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.