Patterns and Parallels between certain characters

[Cydal]

This is good speculation!

I'm not so sure about Jon being AA or Dany the PTWP, because it could be the other way around or that the AA and PTWP is one and the same. If the PTWP was suppose to be the Song of Ice and Fire I have a hard time seeing Dany in this role. But she did hatch dragons so there could be something wrong with the prophecies, or a mix up :)

The last hero could also be the same person. In this case I go for Jon, he is probably both wolf and dragon and the uniting force. I really think all of them have important parts to play however.

The Night's King story is going to be relevant too I think, and in that story a Stark Lord Commander broke his vows with an Other woman (wtf!?), used sorcery to enslave the Night's Watch and was overpowered by his Stark brother (with the help of the wildling king Joramun).

So taking into account where our Stark boys and Jon are at the moment... Something's up with this.

I always felt like all three are the same in that all are Azor Ahai reborn because even Bran has his reborn moment when Winterfell burned and he emerged from the crypts and then Summer saw something in the sky that looked like a dragon. So I think there are 3 Princes that was promised that are Azor Ahai reborn and there are 3 Azor Ahai who happen to be princes. And each might fulfil a certain aspect of the prophecy. Dany waking Dragons from stone, Jon wielding Lightbringer and Bran doing whatever it is he does that I can't think of right now :D

[Cydal]

I just started ADWD re - read and noticed a few things I didn't before. The reason everyone thinks Jon is AA over Dany (or as well as) is mostly because of his Targ heritage and the mystery surrounding his person. But I've always felt like Bran will be the 3rd head and What I came across sort of proves that. Has anybody else noticed the striking similarities between Bran's cave adventure and Dany's Undying? Dany was given the shade of the evening and at first it tasted bad and all of a sudden it tasted like every good thing she had ever tasted, compare that with Bran drinking the weirwood paste and it also had the exact same effect.

Also both started seeing visions of things that are supposed to be relevant to them, The contrast is now Dany seeing the past and future while Bran only saw the past. Also did anyone else notice that the hall Dany went into also had the Ebony and Weirwood doors, Like those of the House of Black and White. Ice and Fire?

While Jon might be AA candidate based on blood, Bran even fits it better based on magic. In Dance, the COTF told him that she learned to speak the Common tongue because Bran was expected. Just like the Undying told Dany they'd been waiting for her.

Some think the third head would be Tyrion, but he can't be because he is not a Prince and wasn't promised... Bran was and is a prince.

[Eyron]

@Cydal

Wow you have been busy! This is great!

The house of Undying was like a treasure chest of prophecies, but you noticed the small details as well, I have to reread that later. Were the doors placed accordingly to what they contained? I mean, the weirwoods for the visions of the wolfhead king and the "five kings"? I know I thought about the doors at the time of reading but I soon forgot what it was about :)

Nice connection to the House of Black and White! I always try to make room for the FM and Many Faced God in our theories :D

A disturbing thought, Dany had to fight her way out from the Undying, they tried to take her life right? Bran has to get the hell out of that cave if that is a parallel too.

However I don't think they all can be considered as the heads of the dragon because I think that is just a Targaryen business, referring to the legacy of Aegon, Visenya and Rhaenys, and I don't think that is necessarily linked to the Hero/PTWP/AA fulfillment. I just find it weird that Brandon Stark wolf boy could be a head of the dragon...

I agree about your analysis in most part, especially the fact that they were Promised but I'm not sure if they all are suppose to be AA/PTWP, or if Bran and Dany are side-kicks to Jon being AA (I like to call him PTWP or the New Hero instead though, I don't like the R'hllor feel to AA). The reason I think this is the case is basically because the Song of Ice and Fire and that I think there will be conflicts, but I really like your idea about the Song being meant as unity instead of division. So I am a little torn on the matter :)

[Stark@heart]

Ned & Sansa

Both raised to believe Honor ( maybe also seen as pride) means all. Ned thinks his honor will protect him and if he acts nobly most everyone else will too. Sansa uses her manners and thinks that because she is kind and courteous others are too.

Ned has to kill Sansa wolf to appease Cersei/ Lannisters. Sansa has to kill her inner wolf to survive amongst Cersei/ Lannisters

Neither have any cunning and they both become Cersei's pawns.

Ned being older comes to KL and resolves not to trust anyone. Sansa has to learn the hard way but even when they are on their "guard" they still end up making th exact moves that others want them to make.

They both end up putting their lives in LF hands even though they don't like or trust him but at the time they have no other choice because they have refused help from others who were being "true" to them because it wasn't honorable. (renly & sandor)

Here's where I hope the parallels end because I think Ned actually died at LF hand. I know Joffy gave the command but after LF tells Sansa about his suggesting the dwarfs show for the wedding... well I can totally see him whispering in Joffy's ear that the manly thing to do with a traitor is kill him.

[Whatever]

A while ago i found a very interesting post whihc is a parallel between Sansa and Jon, expecially prior-during AGOT. They both wanted to live in a personal world where there are heroes and everything is how it's supposed to be. They were naive and had both had a head full of dreams. They both crasced with the reality, and became better people after their experiences.

It's just a small thing, but i really liked, because it isn't something i'd usually think about.

[Cydal]

@Cydal

Wow you have been busy! This is great!

The house of Undying was like a treasure chest of prophecies, but you noticed the small details as well, I have to reread that later. Were the doors placed accordingly to what they contained? I mean, the weirwoods for the visions of the wolfhead king and the "five kings"? I know I thought about the doors at the time of reading but I soon forgot what it was about :)

Nice connection to the House of Black and White! I always try to make room for the FM and Many Faced God in our theories :D

A disturbing thought, Dany had to fight her way out from the Undying, they tried to take her life right? Bran has to get the hell out of that cave if that is a parallel too.

However I don't think they all can be considered as the heads of the dragon because I think that is just a Targaryen business, referring to the legacy of Aegon, Visenya and Rhaenys, and I don't think that is necessarily linked to the Hero/PTWP/AA fulfillment. I just find it weird that Brandon Stark wolf boy could be a head of the dragon...

I agree about your analysis in most part, especially the fact that they were Promised but I'm not sure if they all are suppose to be AA/PTWP, or if Bran and Dany are side-kicks to Jon being AA (I like to call him PTWP or the New Hero instead though, I don't like the R'hllor feel to AA). The reason I think this is the case is basically because the Song of Ice and Fire and that I think there will be conflicts, but I really like your idea about the Song being meant as unity instead of division. So I am a little torn on the matter :)

:) I learned from the masters :)

It was one door, Well a two sided door the kind of doors where you can open both to let something wide through but only need to open one for a person and one side is coloured black while the second is coloured white. Like a castle door.

:D I think the difference between Bran and Dany is that they tried to kill Dany because she (and consequently, her dragons) were the source of Fire magic, the reason magic returned to the world and that is why they tried to kill her or suck the life out of her because the kind of magic they do (Probably fire magic) comes from Dragons. Remember it was said that they used to be powerful but not any more much like the rest of magic but then I remember in ACOK when Dany asked Xaro that why should she fear them when he himself said they had no power and he replied that they (Warlocks) seem to have magic again and he went on to list things that happened recently. Even Mel mentioned having more power and then also at the wall. ummm That is something to think on. A fire priestess getting power from Ice magic. But Bran on the other hand is not the source of Ice magic, He is more like a very powerful priest or player not the source of the magic itself, at least not to the same degree as Dany.

I guess the reasons why I always felt there had to be three was because 1. Three heads, this all stems from a theory I came up with in another post of mine about a Targaryen possibly having a vision long ago and warned to leave Valyria to settle on dragonstone because they and three Dragons would be needed some day to fight evil and also to escape the Doom. there's more to it but I won't get into it here.

I always felt that the three of them are in a very unique situation, Dany - Fire, Bran - Ice and Jon - Both as a balance between both. Now none is more important than the others and none are sidekick to one. So far, Dany is proving to be the source of Fire magic and went to the Undying, Bran is in the cave learning Ice. Now both players have been joined by Marriage and Blood in Jon Snow who happens to be a warrior. And he also conveniently happens to have had a dream/vision where he was armoured in ice and wielding sword of Fire.

About the Targ business, GRRM once mentioned that the 3rd head didn't have to be a Targ, Now I know it could mean Jon Snow or a Blackfyre. But if Jon really is Rhaegar's son then that becomes sort of redundant because then he's just using a play of words and it doesn't really seem his style. Now a Blackfyre (Maybe Aegon) is a stretch. So I think he has to mean Bran (I hope) mixed with "You will not walk again Brandon Stark, But you will fly" said by Bloodraven. Also add in Tyrion making a special saddle for Bran to ride a horse e.t.c

It's a bit I know and probably too much to digest but it makes sense. :D

[Eyron]

@Cydal

Just so you know I love your theories even though I don't always agree :)

Did magic really come with the dragons? I'm not so sure, the Others came before the dragons, and I think that had to do with the magic returning to the world, it's too much of a coincidence otherwise I think. I mean very good timing :) I believe magic became strong again for some unknown reason. You may have read about the theories it in the other thread but the things going on in the world is destroying it, destroying the earth, waters, life, honour and faith.

I think the world is fighting back so to speak. And to do that magic has been unleashed somehow, and the earth has been drowned with blood from war and killing. People can take advantage of it but it does not come from them. Dany is a bit supernatural (like Bran) but she used blood magic to hatch the dragons. I think all magic comes from the same source, it's only one kind and it demands sacrifice, blood preferably...

I agree that the term "the dragons three heads" could be used more loosely, and I know the GRRM statement, but then I think we could stop calling it the dragons heads :)

(Tom, Dick and Daario perhaps?) Because I think the prophecies are less than accurate so why not go with the three heroes instead?

It's just words anyway :) and what do we say about words? (everybody now) Words are....

Bran could hijack a dragon of course, he is the masterwarg.

[Cydal]

@Cydal

Just so you know I love your theories even though I don't always agree :)

Did magic really come with the dragons? I'm not so sure, the Others came before the dragons, and I think that had to do with the magic returning to the world, it's too much of a coincidence otherwise I think. I mean very good timing :) I believe magic became strong again for some unknown reason. You may have read about the theories it in the other thread but the things going on in the world is destroying it, destroying the earth, waters, life, honour and faith.

I think the world is fighting back so to speak. And to do that magic has been unleashed somehow, and the earth has been drowned with blood from war and killing. People can take advantage of it but it does not come from them. Dany is a bit supernatural (like Bran) but she used blood magic to hatch the dragons. I think all magic comes from the same source, it's only one kind and it demands sacrifice, blood preferably...

I agree that the term "the dragons three heads" could be used more loosely, and I know the GRRM statement, but then I think we could stop calling it the dragons heads :)

(Tom, Dick and Daario perhaps?) Because I think the prophecies are less than accurate so why not go with the three heroes instead?

It's just words anyway :) and what do we say about words? (everybody now) Words are....

Bran could hijack a dragon of course, he is the masterwarg.

Yes magic did come back with the Dragon but only magic rooted in Fire, I remember the Dany chapter in ACOK when she was watching a fire conjurer performing for a crowd and then Quaithe came and told her that the person couldn't have done any of that before the Dragons were born and now the person could create a tall ladder of fire, Also the pyromancers told Tyrion that their spells seemed to work better than before and I remember him asking Tyrion if he knew any Dragons about. Also the forger told Tywin when he was reforging Ice how their spells seem to work, there is also the Warlocks example mentioned before, Then there's Thoros of Myr being able to awaken Beric Dondarrion even though he didn't mean to. So it seems Fire magic had been dead for a while till the Dragons came. Also there's the talk at the Citadel in AFFC about how the glass candles only started burning because magic had returned. TBH there's plenty of examples but it seemed Ice magic never left since Bloodraven could communicate with Bran.

I think Ice and Fire are the two main sources of Magic, Both allow and use blood magic, yes. But they are different, Remember "Fire consumes but Ice preserves".

[Cydal]

@Cydal

...

(Tom, Dick and Daario perhaps?) Because I think the prophecies are less than accurate so why not go with the three heroes instead?

:D Don't mind me, Someone's username is MydogisDaenerys or something like that and he/she said something once I didn't agree with, combined with me not really being a Dany fan (Only cos she said Ned Stark was a traitor who died a traitor's death) I got pissed and added that to my signature so he/she could see it after replying his/her post.

Yes I'm prickly when it comes to the honour of my Starks. Sue me

[daenerys snow]

cersei and viserys

crazy, paranoid, ambitious, and obsessed with a sibling (incestuously).

[the Scorpion Knight]

Aegon and the Starks

- hides on another continent (arya)

-dyes his hair (sansa)

-presumed dead (rickon)

-tutored by a true friend of the family (Bran)

[Awakened Edna]

Cersei and Sansa.

Sansa starts out wanting to be like Cersei, without understanding what Cersei really is. Cersei is scornful and contemptuous of Sansa's innocence and sweet nature. Cersei tells Sansa to make the people fear her, and Sansa thinks that she'll make the people love her. Cersei tells Sansa to use sex as a weapon but doing that ultimately brings Cersei down. Hopefully the betrothal to Harry and his similarities to Robert will continue the contrasts and parallels between the two.

Great character parallels.

Also, they both begin with over-romanticized ideas of marriage to a king. Cersei dreams of marrying Rhaegar, right? And Sansa dreams of Joffrey, of course. Neither marriage occurs.

[Eyron]

Yes magic did come back with the Dragon but only magic rooted in Fire, I remember the Dany chapter in ACOK when she was watching a fire conjurer performing for a crowd and then Quaithe came and told her that the person couldn't have done any of that before the Dragons were born and now the person could create a tall ladder of fire, Also the pyromancers told Tyrion that their spells seemed to work better than before and I remember him asking Tyrion if he knew any Dragons about. Also the forger told Tywin when he was reforging Ice how their spells seem to work, there is also the Warlocks example mentioned before, Then there's Thoros of Myr being able to awaken Beric Dondarrion even though he didn't mean to. So it seems Fire magic had been dead for a while till the Dragons came. Also there's the talk at the Citadel in AFFC about how the glass candles only started burning because magic had returned. TBH there's plenty of examples but it seemed Ice magic never left since Bloodraven could communicate with Bran.

I think Ice and Fire are the two main sources of Magic, Both allow and use blood magic, yes. But they are different, Remember "Fire consumes but Ice preserves".

The fire magic grew stronger after the dragons, I agree, but maybe the reason Dany could hatch the dragons were because magic was "available" already and growing stronger? I don't think she created it so to speak, she hatched them because it was possible due to magic and that is why no one was able to do it before for a long time.

Both she and other Targs (Maester Aemon and his brothers for instance) had prophetic dreams about dragons when fire magic was suppose to be gone. So dreams and supernatural gifts are not magical I think.

I don't think Bloodraven uses magic to connect with Bran in his dreams, I think that kind of magic is separate from the blood magic, the "practical" magic :) I think that warging and prophetic dreams and such are just a gift some people have. For example I think that the Stark kids and Jon (and some of the earlier Starks) always had the gift, but they needed to learn to find and use it.

That line about ice preserves and fire consumes is monumental somehow but I'm not sure exactly how, my first thought was that it was about life. Ice preserves life and fire consumes it...

:D Don't mind me, Someone's username is MydogisDaenerys or something like that and he/she said something once I didn't agree with, combined with me not really being a Dany fan (Only cos she said Ned Stark was a traitor who died a traitor's death) I got pissed and added that to my signature so he/she could see it after replying his/her post.

Yes I'm prickly when it comes to the honour of my Starks. Sue me

I wondered what that signature was suppose to mean ;)

I think I may have reacted in some similar fashion if someone kicked on my favourite characters (also Starks and Jon).

Neds honour is a touchy subject with me too... I made a big defence in his case on a Ned thread a while ago, I just hate how he is looked down upon for being honourable :tantrum:

[Cydal]

The fire magic grew stronger after the dragons, I agree, but maybe the reason Dany could hatch the dragons were because magic was "available" already and growing stronger? I don't think she created it so to speak, she hatched them because it was possible due to magic and that is why no one was able to do it before for a long time.

I think Blood magic was something that was always around and always will be, MMD used it to keep Drogo alive before Dany. I think the reason she could hatch dragons was because she had the dreams.visions that told her how to do it, she used blood magic which uses the "Life for life" philosophy (?), which I think is either because someone in her vision told her how to do it or because it was prophesied to happen or both.

Both she and other Targs (Maester Aemon and his brothers for instance) had prophetic dreams about dragons when fire magic was suppose to be gone. So dreams and supernatural gifts are not magical I think.

I don't think Bloodraven uses magic to connect with Bran in his dreams, I think that kind of magic is separate from the blood magic, the "practical" magic :) I think that warging and prophetic dreams and such are just a gift some people have. For example I think that the Stark kids and Jon (and some of the earlier Starks) always had the gift, but they needed to learn to find and use it.

It probably is magical, just a simpler kind. But it seems fire magic has definitely gotten stronger since she hatched the dragon eggs. What is amazing is the parallel between Fire and Ice. Both use communication methods that are similar but different in a way, as well as other things, Reaching into other's dreams and showing them visions. We've had examples of Blood sacrifice in both, Prophecies in both, Greendreaming as opposed to Flameseeing. One always comes true while the other has some wiggle room. Maybe "Song" just means a Tale. Maybe everything we've read is just A tale of Ice and Fire. Maybe it doesn't refer to conflict or union, Maybe the PTWP is just someone able to wield both kinds of magic. I guess we'll find out someday. :)

[kephv]

Maybe it doesn't refer to conflict or union, Maybe the PTWP is just someone able to wield both kinds of magic. I guess we'll find out someday.

That made me think of Jon's dream where he's armored in black ice with a sword of fire. That would pretty badass if that actually happened but it would definitely be pushing the boundaries of GRRM's low magic.

[scurvy]

The way the myth of Tyrion's birth is told by Oberyn - clawing out of his mother, killing her. Born with a tail, claws, etc. It's basically everything except for the wings of a dragon. It reminded me of how Mirii Maz Duur describes the stillborn Rheago - except Rheago is dead- instead of Daenerys.

[scurvy]

I found the parallel reverse paths of Arya and Jaime traveling south-north and north-south across the Riverlands to be quite the juxtaposition.

Both were powerless. Both had threats to their lives, both had saviors who were also captors - Sandor and Brienne.

Arya became more like Sandor - wanting, needing revenge and moving toward becoming a killer without a sense of right and wrong as long as she got her revenge. She ultimately left Sandor to die even when he begged for mercy - embracing her motivation - revenge. She became more empowered and more skilled in killing.

Jaime went the other way becoming more like Brienne, wanting to make things right, becoming honorable, caring about his oaths, recognizing his mistakes he made, finding his own actions revolting, ultimately rejecting his motivation- Cersei. He ultimately went back to save Brienne rather than allow her to die as he would have previously. He became powerless, losing his sword hand.

Completely reverse paths.

[Cydal]

I found the parallel reverse paths of Arya and Jaime traveling south-north and north-south across the Riverlands to be quite the juxtaposition.

Both were powerless. Both had threats to their lives, both had saviors who were also captors - Sandor and Brienne.

Arya became more like Sandor - wanting, needing revenge and moving toward becoming a killer without a sense of right and wrong as long as she got her revenge. She ultimately left Sandor to die even when he begged for mercy - embracing her motivation - revenge. She became more empowered and more skilled in killing.

Jaime went the other way becoming more like Brienne, wanting to make things right, becoming honorable, caring about his oaths, recognizing his mistakes he made, finding his own actions revolting, ultimately rejecting his motivation- Cersei. He ultimately went back to save Brienne rather than allow her to die as he would have previously. He became powerless, losing his sword hand.

Completely reverse paths.

Not bad at all. Very interesting contrast indeed

[Cydal]

Miri Maz Duur we all know betrayed Dany, but if any of us was in her shoes, we'd probably do the same. She had just witnessed first hand what a Dothraki Khalasar does, she had just been raped numerous times and she devised a way to take out both Drogo and Rhaego, both a huge threat to people like her and their descendants. MMD was very justified in what she did I'll grant that.

Now there is Bowen Marsh, He watched his Lord Commander time after time commit acts he viewed as treasonous and stayed his hand mostly because of Stannis, he knew that if Stannis came back he would deal with them for killing Jon, but now a letter arrived that said Stannis had been defeated, and Jon is about to 1. Send Black brothers under the command of a wildling into almost certain death. and 2. Himself lead a band of wildlings into the realm. Now if Ramsay and Roose were to also defeat Jon, they would then march on the wall and that would be the end of them, So he was also completely justified in deciding to kill Jon. It really was for the sake and preservation of the watch, and they needed that preservation now more than ever.

So, If Jon comes back he would be just as justified in killing Bowen and Dany was in killing Miri Maz Duur even though they both can be argued to have not necessarily done something wrong. This is another reason I don't think Jon is dead because the similarities and parallels between him and Dany isn't completed until he comes back and deals with Bowen.

Thoughts?

[tze]

Jon and Robb.

Both were elevated by people they trust (Sam made Jon LC, and the Greatjon proclaimed Robb the King in the North).

Both had to execute someone (Robb killed Karstak, and Jon killed Slynt).

Both were betrayed..

Both ignored women telling them to keep their direwolves close (Catelyn and Melisandre). Both were stabbed by a subordinate. Both were attacked after outlining a plan to retake Winterfell.

In addition to the many similarities, though, there are also very important instances here where Jon and Robb are polar opposites. If you look at Catelyn's POV conversations with Robb, it seems clear that Robb was inadvertently warging Grey Wind, but was afraid of that bond and pushed Grey Wind away because of it. Jon knows he's warging Ghost but has no problem with being a warg. Jon is assassinated in the North, Robb is assassinated in the South. Jon is surrounded by friends at his stabbing, and is stabbed at the center of his power base (Castle Black); Robb was surrounded by enemies, and was on their home turf (the Twins). The Freys got Robb's soldiers drunk at the Red Wedding and then slaughtered them; the wildling chiefs were calling for alcohol when Jon left the Shield Hall, but there wasn't time for them to get drunk before the stabbing, so there's a good chance they'll avoid the fate of Robb's soldiers. The Greatjon is attacked and taken prisoner; Wun Wun is attacked, and he dismembers his attacker. Robb alienates the Karstarks, Jon brings them back into the fold. Robb marries Jeyne, a girl from the Westerlands (the heart of his enemies' power); Jon "marries" Ygritte, a wildling, but where Jeyne provides Robb no advantages, Ygritte teaches Jon a lot about the wildlings. Robb worshiped the Old Gods and honored the Seven; Jon is purely an Old Gods worshiper.

Robb wanted to send 100 men to take the black to free Jon from his vows. Cersei wanted to send 100 men to take the black and assassinate Jon (ironically, also freeing him from his vows).

Robb "The Young Wolf" = Dareon "The Young Dragon": both achieved martial supremacy at the age of 14. Both won their battles but lost the war---Robb won every battle yet was destroyed, Dareon conquered Dorne but was unable to hold it and was killed in the Dornish insurgency. Bran Stark = Baelor the Blessed; Bran is a greenseer, a servant of the Old Gods, and due to his paralysis cannot fight; Baelor the Blessed was called the Septon King, and was so physically weak he ended up starving himself to death. Baelor never consummated his marriage to Daena, Bran is now wedded to the trees. Bran is Robb's younger brother, Baelor was Dareon's younger brother.

Tommen is like Dareon II: he's not as martial as King Robert's bastards, just like Dareon wasn't as martial as Bittersteel and Daemon Blackfyre. The story has gotten out that Tommen is really the bastard son of the queen and her brother the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard, just as stories said Dareon was really the son of Queen Naerys and her brother, Lord Commander of the Kingsguard Aemon the Dragonknight. Robert's wenching is analogous to Aegon IV's many, many bastards. Myrcella is sent to marry a Dornish prince, Trystane, just like Dareon II's sister Daenerys was sent to marry a Dornish prince.

This hasn't been confirmed, but I think they're setting up Jon to be a Stark parallel of Daemon Blackfyre. If Robb's will legitimized him and named him heir, this could parallel how Aegon IV legitimized Daemon Blackfyre and gave him the sword ('naming' him heir, in the eyes of many). Jon is a warrior and a leader of men, his next oldest trueborn brother, Bran, is not. But because the Starks are the opposites of the Targs, Jon might succeed where Daemon failed: Robb's will will probably be unambiguous (giving a sword isn't as clear-cut) and the Stark kids will probably rally around Jon as the leader of the pack, where the Targ allegiances split vis a vis Daemon Blackfyre.

On that note, the Targs vs The Starks: fire and ice, the dragons and the direwolves. Dany notes that dragons do not plant trees, and what the Targaryens have built has either been destroyed (Summerhall, the Tower of the Hand, the unity of the Seven Kingdoms) or has been hinted will be destroyed in the future (the wildfire caches ready to incinerate King's Landing and the Red Keep, coupled with Cersei's love of burning things, etc.). The Starks descend from Brandon the Builder, and the structures Brandon built all remain after 8,000 years: Winterfell, the Wall, even Storm's End. Direwolves hunt in packs, dragons don't appear to do so; Dany's dragons didn't hunt together in the past and Drogon made no attempt to free Rhaegal or Viserion. As dragons don't hunt together, the Targs constantly fight one another: the Dance of the Dragons, the Blackfyre Rebellions, etc., and there are hints that Dany and Aegon will play out a Second Dance of the Dragons, possibly destroying each other in the process. Whereas the Starks seem to genuinely love each other far more than they love personal power, and will probably end up "running as a pack" rather than fighting each other for WInterfell.

Ghost was the albino runt of the litter. Bloodraven was the albino runt of his litter (the smallest and weakest of the Great Bastards and trueborn Targs), yet now Daemon Blackfyre and Dareon II are ashes in the wind, BIttersteel is a skull on a pole, and Bloodraven is still alive and in many ways more powerful than ever. Ghost is now the largest of the Stark direwolves and the ravens do so like calling Jon a King . . .

Dany/Jon: In practice, I thought a good portion of ADWD served to illustrate the similarities and differences between Jon's rulership skills and Dany's rulership skills. Jon goes to extreme lengths to learn everything he can about the wildlings and his fellow Watchmen; Dany never tries to learn anything about the Meereenese, and knows basically nothing about the people living in the surrounding pyramids. Dany suffers a devastating insurgency, Jon has the makings of an insurgency in the person of Janos Slynt, but a quick and strategic act of violence (Slynt's beheading) puts an end to open rebellion. Both suffered assassination attempts, but someone else took the damage for Dany (Belwas) while Jon took the damage on himself. Both had prophets constantly warning them about the future, and Dany became obsessed with sussing out the meaning of those prophecies where Jon ignores Melisandre. Dany refuses to ally with Cleon the Great against Yunkai, Jon allies with Stannis against the Boltons and Tormund against the Others. Both take child hostages, but Dany refuses to execute them where Jon makes it clear that he's willing to do so. Quentyn comes to Dany with no money or soldiers seeking her help against the Lannisters---she refuses him and tries to send him home, and sets off a chain of events culminating in the release of the dragons, the destruction of swathes of Meereen, and the possible deaths of the Yunkish hostages. Alys Karstark comes to Jon seeking his aid, with nothing but the clothes on her back, and Jon finds a way to help her, deal with the Magnar, and heal the breach between Stark and Karstark, all at the same time.

Jon/Ramsay: both are bastards, but both epitomize the unique qualities of their Houses; Ramsay is a murdering flaying psycho Bolton, Jon is an honorable warging winter-loving Stark. Both bear the sigil of their Houses: Ramsay has the "flayed man" in Theon, Jon has the direwolf Ghost. Ramsay was legitimized by Tommen, a bastard himself whose authority is recognized by the Southern lords but not by the Northern lords; Jon has probably been legitimized by Robb, a trueborn Stark whose authority is recognized in the north but not in the south. Ramsay's weaknesses are easy to read; Jon's weaknesses seem easy to read but in fact his true motivations (his family, his gods, his culture) are known to very few.

And on a random note: the Tyrells were once the stewards of House Gardener. The Pooles were stewards to House Stark. The Boltons try to use Jeyne Poole to usurp Winterfell after the other Starks are "dead", just as the Tyrells took Highgarden once the Gardeners were dead.