Am I missing something about Mistborn? I'm really not seeing where all this praise is coming from...

[peterbound]

I think you should relax a little, no sense insulting people because they disagree with you.

LLS, don't sweat this guy. If i remember correctly this is his MO. He'll troll for a while then jet. Just ride it out.

[Grack21]

What are we arguing about again? This has just gotten weirder and weirder.

Here I'll troll some.

I think Cormac McCarthy is shit.

[peterbound]

What are we arguing about again? This has just gotten weirder and weirder.

Here I'll troll some.

I think Cormac McCarthy is shit.

Ha. Didn't we met on a Dragonlance appreciation thread?

[Muhammad Salah-din]

I didn't like All the Pretty Horses when I was forced to read it in high school, but I've always assumed that I just wasn't mature enough. I've also never had the inclination to give McCarthy another shot.

I don't remember if Long Price Quartet had swearing and sex, but either way, Dan Abraham handles those topics much better than Sanderson does.

[Grack21]

Ha. Didn't we met on a Dragonlance appreciation thread?

We did. Your tasselhoff cosplay was awesome.

[frodostark]

I do think it is true that Sanderson (and OSC) get some additional grief due to their religious faith...that's not exactly popular in these parts. Swearing and explicit sex are just simply not necessary for something to be "adult." That comes from the complexity and sensitivity of the writing, as well as the themes being dealt with. For an example, LOTR couldn't be more "clean" and yet I'd argue it's every bit as adult as Ice and Fire is.

That said, the comment upstream about how it's weird that Sanderson can be so explicit in his violence and then have an almost sexless world is pretty spot on. I'm not advocating for more sex (if I recall there's a very tame and somewhat silly scene in Mistborn 3), just saying that he does seem to bring the blood and gore of the world into stark focus while fuzzing over the rest.

I do think this is a legitimate approach and am not sure why it would irk some people. I say it's his choice, now does the story itself hold up to how he chose to tell it?

Personally, I find Sanderson to be a second tier author. As mentioned above, he's a GREAT plotter, a fantastic writer/explainer of magic, and a really cool talent with a fair bit of raw edges (haven't read Warbreaker or Way of Kings, by the way). But he's simply not in the same league as Tolkien, Martin, Lynch, Hobb (on her good days), or Pratchett. I read him because he is fun (particularly in how his endings, though often overdue, are fantastic pyrotechnic shows) and he is a major voice in fantasy today (based on popularity, etc.).

***NOTE: No, I don't read the Yeard based on popularity...some things just aren't worth doing even if you can justify them.

[kcf]

Let's not bring OSC into this. He gets hated on because he publically and loudly espouses really disgusting things - he hates on the GLBT community, he's bigoted, he's mysoginstic and he suggests that people who agree with him should take up armed rebellion against the US because some people are OK with gay marriage.

Sanderson is religious guy, but he walks the walk without bludgeoning people over their heads with religion. He only gets into details when asked. I disagree with him since he pretty much agrees with the offical mormon line on things, but I can respect how he handles it. OSC, not so much.

[Shryke]

So you think Danial Abraham's Long Price is juvenile?

Uh, The Long Price quartet has sex at the very least. Also, maybe swearing, I don't remember. And all of it handled in a way that's not so terribly juvenile.

[Shryke]

We are reading scifi/fantasy.... Not The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay or The Road. If all these silly fantasy writers are not living up to all your nitpicks go read a book from a "real writer"

I know I'm gonna get shit for that... Who cares. I read fantasy for fun stories that take me to a make believe world. Sanderson does that very well, so does Martin. But to be completely honest... Neither of them write near as well as the authors of the two books I just listed, no fantasy writer does. No matter how bad you want to tell yourself they do, that don't. They write silly stories (which I love) about magic, dragons and silly little worlds.

Ugh .... The Road is sci-fi.

You are such a dumb troll anyway though.

[Shryke]

I do think it is true that Sanderson (and OSC) get some additional grief due to their religious faith...that's not exactly popular in these parts. Swearing and explicit sex are just simply not necessary for something to be "adult." That comes from the complexity and sensitivity of the writing, as well as the themes being dealt with. For an example, LOTR couldn't be more "clean" and yet I'd argue it's every bit as adult as Ice and Fire is.

You have this backwards. People notice the juvenile treatment of sexual themes and swearing and other stuff then attribute that to his religion. It's not the other way around.

And LOTR is the kind of thing people are talking about. LOTR has no explicit sex scenes, but it handles the little sexual interaction there is with maturity. Sanderson is like the opposite. Lots more romantic interaction, generally handled with all the maturity of a highschool freshman.

That said, the comment upstream about how it's weird that Sanderson can be so explicit in his violence and then have an almost sexless world is pretty spot on. I'm not advocating for more sex (if I recall there's a very tame and somewhat silly scene in Mistborn 3), just saying that he does seem to bring the blood and gore of the world into stark focus while fuzzing over the rest.

I do think this is a legitimate approach and am not sure why it would irk some people. I say it's his choice, now does the story itself hold up to how he chose to tell it?

People just laugh at it because it's a reflection of North American societies absolutely silly moral purity culture where sexuality is utterly taboo but gruesome violence is 100% AOK!

[Grack21]

Edit: IGNORE ME

[Grack21]

You have this backwards. People notice the juvenile treatment of sexual themes and swearing and other stuff then attribute that to his religion. It's not the other way around.

And LOTR is the kind of thing people are talking about. LOTR has no explicit sex scenes, but it handles the little sexual interaction there is with maturity. Sanderson is like the opposite. Lots more romantic interaction, generally handled with all the maturity of a highschool freshman.

People just laugh at it because it's a reflection of North American societies absolutely silly moral purity culture where sexuality is utterly taboo but gruesome violence is 100% AOK!

See, I can get behind that people don't like the WAY he handles the non sex. I've actually heard people dismiss books though for the simple reason that people don't say fuck. Drives me nuts, if you haven't noticed by now.

[Shryke]

See, I can get behind that people don't like the WAY he handles the non sex. I've actually heard people dismiss books though for the simple reason that people don't say fuck. Drives me nuts, if you haven't noticed by now.

I think the complaint of "no swearing" is about how they handle it. Because, of course, no one complains about certain books not using fuck (LOTR being a perfect example) For swearing, it's when their absense becomes conspicuous that people notice. It's like if the characters talk a certain way so you expect them to swear and then they just don't that your like "Hey, what the?". Cause otherwise you just don't notice.

[Verboten]

Uh, The Long Price quartet has sex at the very least. Also, maybe swearing, I don't remember. And all of it handled in a way that's not so terribly juvenile.

"I'm going to save the fucking world." is the only example I can think of off the top of my head.

[Arthmail]

I love GRRM, I'm his biggest fan....

I love when people say this. Its so objective, and gives credibility to their argument. Poo face.

[Jaerid]

I find Sanderson to be a second tier author. As mentioned above, he's a GREAT plotter, a fantastic writer/explainer of magic, and a really cool talent with a fair bit of raw edges (haven't read Warbreaker or Way of Kings, by the way). But he's simply not in the same league as Tolkien, Martin, Lynch, Hobb (on her good days), or Pratchett...

Maybe a second or third tier fantasy author (with the exclusion of Wolfe or Tolkien). Sanderson has a ways to go before he can break out and play with second tier authors like Chaucer, Maugham, Yeats, Hamsun. I mean... try to compare someone like Martin and Hobb (alleged first-tier authors) to Steinbeck and Faulkner (real first-tier authors).

[MinDonner]

We did. Your tasselhoff cosplay was awesome.

Er. Is Tasslehoff an actual character or something? Cos all this brings to mind is The Hoff wearing, um, tassles. :leaving:

I never thought my ignorance of Dragonlance would leave me vulnerable to such mental scarring.

[Errant Bard]

Maybe a second or third tier fantasy author (with the exclusion of Wolfe or Tolkien). Sanderson has a ways to go before he can break out and play with second tier authors like Chaucer, Maugham, Yeats, Hamsun. I mean... try to compare someone like Martin and Hobb (alleged first-tier authors) to Steinbeck and Faulkner (real first-tier authors).

"Real" in what way? What about Eco, Borges, Wolfe or Duncan?

[SkynJay]

Er. Is Tasslehoff an actual character or something? Cos all this brings to mind is The Hoff wearing, um, tassles. :leaving:

I never thought my ignorance of Dragonlance would leave me vulnerable to such mental scarring.

Cue stripper music!

Ok bring in the Hoff!

Ok back to the Sand man. WoK is all I need as an example. First chapter, sweet scene, great action from some sort of awesome magic assassin. All good? Yes, except we have I giant info dump where I am given a play by play of how this magic system works. You got a thousand pages, dont interupt your great action scene with a class session.

Still enjoyed the book for the most part, and have some friends I would rec the book to.

[Ahimsa]

I think the complaint of "no swearing" is about how they handle it. Because, of course, no one complains about certain books not using fuck (LOTR being a perfect example) For swearing, it's when their absense becomes conspicuous that people notice. It's like if the characters talk a certain way so you expect them to swear and then they just don't that your like "Hey, what the?". Cause otherwise you just don't notice.

The use of "storm" and "storming" in WoK, while not without reason, sounded very smurfy. It's hard to read something like the following and take it seriously: "Oh, storm you," the grizzled warrior growled.