Sandor Clegane v.12

[Sand Snake No. 9]

I agree with Littlespider that Marrillion is likely still alive. But, any speculations about his future? I've heard people suggest that he's being used to drive my poor Sweetrobin mad. That seems a bit off the wall for me. Anything else?

I could see him being whisked away by one of the Lords Declarant who wanted the real story and who kept Marrillion to use against LF. On the other hand, LF is so good at cleaning up after himself (RIP, Dontos).

littlespider, why don't you start a thread on this subject? It's interesting.

[Alexia]

It could also probably go in the Sansa Appreciation thread. Marrillion would be relevant to her.

[littlespider]

I could see him being whisked away by one of the Lords Declarant who wanted the real story and who kept Marrillion to use against LF. On the other hand, LF is so good at cleaning up after himself (RIP, Dontos).

littlespider, why don't you start a thread on this subject? It's interesting.

The Great Lords Declarant Conspirancy is what I'd call it.

There's some shady stuff going on there.

Here's the links again.

Introduction:

http://www.lib.rochester.edu/camelot/teams/gowint.htm

Story:

http://www.lib.rochester.edu/camelot/teams/gowthfrm.htm

Let me know what you think, y'all.

[1234567]

What actual evidence is there against Sandor? If he leaves the QI and is captured, then he can say he lost his Helm and someone else picked it up. If he doesn't have it on him, would anyone believe him? Also what if the Hound is reported to be in a different location to where Sandor shows up? Or if the EB writes him a letter to take with him proclaiming his innocence: would those parties involved in arresting him feel obliged to follow it up?

[Sand Snake No. 9]

What actual evidence is there against Sandor? If he leaves the QI and is captured, then he can say he lost his Helm and someone else picked it up. If he doesn't have it on him, would anyone believe him? Also what if the Hound is reported to be in a different location to where Sandor shows up? Or if the EB writes him a letter to take with him proclaiming his innocence: would those parties involved in arresting him feel obliged to follow it up?

I think Lem Lemoncloak is going to really, really regret taking the Hound's helm, because people are hunting the person wearing the helm, not Sandor.

Meanwhile Sandor could pass more or less unrecognized without it.

[1234567]

I think Lem Lemoncloak is going to really, really regret taking the Hound's helm, because people are hunting the person wearing the helm, not Sandor.

Meanwhile Sandor could pass more or less unrecognized without it.

Actually if Lem is caught first then he may indeed get the blame for the Saltpans, which would be sad. However it does leave Sandor to come along at a later date and explain how he lost the Helm.

Seriously though, what was the EB thinking!

[littlespider]

Sandor's two hallmark identifiers (his "fair of face, auburn hair" if you will) are (1) that helm, which everybody knows and (2) his ruined face, which everybody knows. The random dying northman recognized him on account of his face, and the villagers outside the mountains of the moon recognized him for the same reason, though he did also have the helm with him then.

So he's not going to be able to pass unrecognized, barring miraculous cosmetic surgery or some kind of covering, like a monk's cowl. He could also go incognito wearing another helm all the time, much like incognito knights do quite frequently in chivalric romances. And, just like his undead bro is currently doing in KL.

While I like the idea of him being able to run around easily while carrying a pardon from the EB, I have a feeling that, in the face of vigilante justice from angry smallfolk, random knights out looking to make a buck, and others, a pardon would be about as effective as Ned's "piece of paper" was to Cersei after Robert was dead. He's going to need Brienne with him, or EB, or he's going to need to be disguised.

But on edit: I agree that at some point Lem may regret the day, though he's safe from the BwB's "justice" since he's one of them.

[1234567]

@ Littlespider

So many good points. I guess I just want his character to make it although I have a solid suspicion that he will die horribly and pointlessly. :crying:

What I am amazed at is how compelling he is as a character. I don't think I've ever read a series of books, where one character has been this interesting IMHO. Although GRRM excels in making fantastic characters.

[Lemon Cake]

For someone as clever as Littlefinger I feel it's a bit suspect that he reveals so much to Sansa? When reading the books I didn't feel like he was trying to teach her, I felt more like she is a pawn that he's shaping for his own selfish reasons. Considering how clever he has been so far in the game, it's wierd how he suddenly he feels the need to tell someone all his plans?...... Im sorry I think he's got an alteria motive

Just FYI, Flightless bird, I responded to this over on the Sansa thread, where it's more on topic. :)

@ Rapsie: I think Sandor will definitely die, perhaps horribly. But I really, really doubt it will be pointlessly. I have faith! Sort of.

[Spirit_Crusher]

No, I don't believe he'll die pointlessly. He'll go through some kind of martyrdom... Or he'll unexpectedly survive all the mess and come out as somebody important, maybe(re)founder of some chivalric-monastic order. Maybe both.

[Ednawolf]

I don't know that he does have to tragically die for the sake of the story. I think that he and Sansa are the "surprising" unlikely romance of the story... the equivalent of Aragorn / Arwen in Lord of the Rings if you will... I think that they could both prevail. That's what I want to believe until proved differently.

[Candor]

Sandor's two hallmark identifiers (his "fair of face, auburn hair" if you will) are (1) that helm, which everybody knows and (2) his ruined face, which everybody knows. The random dying northman recognized him on account of his face, and the villagers outside the mountains of the moon recognized him for the same reason, though he did also have the helm with him then.

So he's not going to be able to pass unrecognized, barring miraculous cosmetic surgery or some kind of covering, like a monk's cowl. He could also go incognito wearing another helm all the time, much like incognito knights do quite frequently in chivalric romances. And, just like his undead bro is currently doing in KL.

While I like the idea of him being able to run around easily while carrying a pardon from the EB, I have a feeling that, in the face of vigilante justice from angry smallfolk, random knights out looking to make a buck, and others, a pardon would be about as effective as Ned's "piece of paper" was to Cersei after Robert was dead. He's going to need Brienne with him, or EB, or he's going to need to be disguised.

But on edit: I agree that at some point Lem may regret the day, though he's safe from the BwB's "justice" since he's one of them.

Sandor, bb, this is your schedule:

1. Secure a pardon from EB. Paper might not do you good but better safe than sorry.

2. Get yoself a nifty disguise.

3. Travel to the Vale.

4. Winter it out with Sansa, which means good behavior and an apology mmhmm, maybe help get rid of LF? I wouldn't even be mad.

5. Say bugger for me, slowly, slowly... :blushing:

my fantasy, let me show it to you.

^

In all seriousness, another better course of action is for Sandor is to stay put on the QI for a longer period of time. Leave only when provoked, but not at a small provocation.

I think Sandor will make it, but I think someone like Jaime might die tragically/heroically, etc, in fact I firmly 100% predict Jaime is eating it before the end of the series. We will see if I am right in about 10 years.

[littlespider]

@ Littlespider

So many good points. I guess I just want his character to make it although I have a solid suspicion that he will die horribly and pointlessly. :crying:

Me too. He's been in Martin's cross hairs since the very first book. We should keep our hopes way down in the dumps so that if he lives, we can rejoice!

What I am amazed at is how compelling he is as a character. I don't think I've ever read a series of books, where one character has been this interesting IMHO. Although GRRM excels in making fantastic characters.

Yeah, certainly not in a series of fantasy/sci-fi novels. A masterfully written character.

I actually have high hopes that Brienne will be around to help him out. Although seriously, I hope he is over his I'm-an-asshole-and-like-to-be-mean phase because Brienne has dealt with enough assholes. Maybe he will keep his vow of silence!

[littlespider]

In all seriousness, another better course of action is for Sandor is to stay put on the QI for a longer period of time. Leave only when provoked, but not at a small provocation.

Like an IRONBORN ATTACK rar.

And it's of course only a matter of time before refugees start heading to the Vale, where there's food in quantity. So I could see survivors doing that. And really, I'm not just making this up to try to get him to the Vale; I do think it's in the realm of possibility.

But here's another possibility for him. Where else would he be able to go to get away from the Crown's reach and the vengeance of people angry about Saltpans? The free cities. Honestly, if I were him, that's where I'd go.

And, just to throw another complication in: I would assume that Sandor is aware that he's being blamed for Saltpans? Do you think EB has told him this?

No.... no more buggers? :crying:

I am sure there will be exceptions!

[Candor]

Like an IRONBORN ATTACK rar.

And it's of course only a matter of time before refugees start heading to the Vale, where there's food in quantity. So I could see survivors doing that. And really, I'm not just making this up to try to get him to the Vale; I do think it's in the realm of possibility.

But here's another possibility for him. Where else would he be able to go to get away from the Crown's reach and the vengeance of people angry about Saltpans? The free cities. Honestly, if I were him, that's where I'd go.

And, just to throw another complication in: I would assume that Sandor is aware that he's being blamed for Saltpans? Do you think EB has told him this?

I am sure there will be exceptions!

Lol, not that again. It's possible, but we will see! As for the refugee situ, I see that being highly likely.I've just been waiting for some people to head towards the Vale because it's been untouched. I mean come on, Westeros, you need food? Look to the Vale. Politicians, don't you find it suspicious the Vale has done nothing? Better go ask for them to swear fealty / come into the war on your side... the lack of attention the Vale has gotten has bothered me, actually. If I were in Westeros the question would have crossed my mind, and if I were truly diligent, I would have demanded they take a side, to know if they were friend or foe.

NOOOO Sandor don't go to Essos - people don't come back from there... not even after five books! Just... don't leave.

though it would be a perfectly logical decision

Hmm. I don't know if EB would have brought this up. I feel as if he is only giving Sandor limited information either as a ploy, or until Sandor "recovers / reforms" more.

[Lemon Cake]

Oh, please, Sandor, whatever you do, do not go to Essos. It's where previously cool/interesting/riveting characters go to die become boring.

[littlespider]

Hmm. I don't know if EB would have brought this up. I feel as if he is only giving Sandor limited information either as a ploy, or until Sandor "recovers / reforms" more.

EB: so you've dug your 460 graves and wept the 46 different tears of penance.

H: *shrug, nod*

EB: I guess I can tell you now that you're wanted all over Westeros for sacking Saltpans, raping 12 year olds and burning down the town.

H: WHAT?!?! Bugger, fuc--

EB: Hey! Vow of silence! Go dig 460 more graves, boy!

H: Bugger you. I'm out, bitch. It's Braavos for me.

Stranger: *neigh*

[Candor]

Maybe HE will be the one to bring Arya back to Westeros? *looks hopeful*

[1234567]

Me too. He's been in Martin's cross hairs since the very first book. We should keep our hopes way down in the dumps so that if he lives, we can rejoice!

Ah, that's the same way I feel about the Sansa / Tyrion marriage. I think her being lumbered with him... :ack: is an even bigger fear than Sandor dying. So if I expect both, just maybe I'll get lucky and one will be wrong.... :unsure:

[Lemon Cake]

Maybe HE will be the one to bring Arya back to Westeros? *looks hopeful*

I'm inclined to be in favor of anything that gets that tiny badass back to Westeros... but I still hope he doesn't go, because for one thing, Essos makes even the most interesting characters boring. For another, I'm too afraid Arya might kill him. And I think she could actually do it now, too. (I don't have as generous an opinion of the Faceless Men and of what they're teaching Arya to become as some do. I wish I did, but I don't. :()