Patchface Project

[Kharn]

I wanna read about him eating shireen :D

Well not really read about that since it'll just be "om nom nom" lol but more so the aftermath of it :D

Conflict!!!! :D

[Dekar]

Patchface will never harm Shireen. He'll protect her up here or under the sea. In the end, he might even teach Stannis to laugh.

I know, I know, oh, oh, oh...

[Howland Reeds Weed Swamp]

What if Patches does what Joffery never could and give Stannis a red smile?

[myufa]

“Under the sea, smoke rises in bubbles, and flames burn green and blue and black.”

Obviously the battle of black water bay and wildfire

[Fitzochris01]

“Under the sea, smoke rises in bubbles, and flames burn green and blue and black.”

Obviously the battle of black water bay and wildfire

Or the glass candles?

[myufa]

Or the glass candles?

How exactly? They do burn but not with smoke or do they

[Fitzochris01]

How exactly? They do burn but not with smoke or do they

I'm not sure. It was just something that occurred to me during a reread. The colours in Patchface's speech reminded me of the colours of the glass candles. Them reigniting again seems linked to prophecies, so I just kind of married the ideas together.

[myufa]

I'm not sure. It was just something that occurred to me during a reread. The colours in Patchface's speech reminded me of the colours of the glass candles. Them reigniting again seems linked to prophecies, so I just kind of married the ideas together.

Also the colors of the wildfire

[Ser Duncan The Average]

“Under the sea, smoke rises in bubbles, and flames burn green and blue and black.”

Obviously the battle of black water bay and wildfire

Not necassarily. If under the sea means death, then the smoke could be from the three leeches that Melisandre burned as the colors match quite well with the three characters that the leeches were intended for.

Firstly in terms of appearance as Renly Baratheon is described in the first books as having green eyes, Robb Stark is described as having blue eyes and Balon Greyjoy has black eyes.

Then in terms of their vassals. As Renly's strongest bannermen were the Tyrell's who fly a green banner. Robb's strongest bannermen were the Tully's who fly a blue banner and Balon had no bannermen outside of his own who flew a black a banner.

And finally in terms of their respective family trees. As Renly's mother is Cassandra Estermont and the banner for house Estermont has a green background. Robb Stark's mother is Catelyn Tully and the banner for house Tully has a green background. Balon Greyjoy's mother was from house Stonetree whose banner has a black background.

[yxalitis]

OR it all means nothing, just mad ramblings, you know sometimes not EVERYTHING has to have deep, hidden meanings.

[Fitzochris01]

OR it all means nothing, just mad ramblings, you know sometimes not EVERYTHING has to have deep, hidden meanings.

True, but in this instance the words do seem to be more than meaningless drivel.

[myufa]

Lets just say it means many things

[Aloysius Rider]

Perhaps in reference to the crows are as white as snow line, while it seems everyone has accepted that crows = NW, Patchface said this while he was in the company of Jon if i remember correctly, and as he is Jon SNOW, then it could mean that under the sea, the NW are as white as Jon. And what other order of men is clad in white, the Kingsguard, who swear a similar oath to that of the nights watch. So perhaps it means that under some circumstances, ie whatever you take under the sea to mean, that the nights watch are all like the kingsguard, like Jon could be considered.

[~~~~~~~~~~~~~]

I think to understand Patchface you have to think like him. He drowned in the ocean, so in his mindset the ocean is the equilavent of death. Whenever he says "under the sea" what he means is "in the realm of death". When he talks about "fish" or "mermen" (residents of the sea), he means wights or Others (residents of death). So:

"Under the sea the crows are white as snow." = in death, the Night's Watchmen are/become wights.

Similarly:

"Under the sea, men marry fishes." = by "marry" he means man and fish becoming one, i.e. merman. so translation is in death, men become wights.

"Come with me beneath the sea." = come die with me

"I will lead it!” His bells rang merrily. “We will march into the sea and out again. Under the waves we will ride seahorses, and mermaids will blow seashells to announce our coming." = basically come die with me again, just with more elaborate description of the land of the dead.

In the Red Wedding prophecy, I think "fool's blood" refers to Lord Walder's jester. Remember Catelyn cuts his throat just before she dies.

These two I haven't figure out yet:

“Under the sea the mermen feast on starfish soup, and all the serving men are crabs.”

“Under the sea, smoke rises in bubbles, and flames burn green and blue and black.”

Jinglebell, the simpleton is the fool's name. Its who Cat kills. He's a family member.

[obsessed]

I'm getting the sense that every time GRRM invents a character, his discipline is to imbue the name, appearance, sigil and other descriptive characteristics with as much connective significance as possible - as if his sense of craftsmanship makes him want to avoid wasting any of the necessary descriptive prose on random information.

 

Patchface has green and red squares tatooed on his face. This calls to mind a cyvasse board and the red & green Targaryen factions. His near-drowning of course calls the Ironborn to mind, but the Baratheons are about as far from Pyke as you can be in Westeros. Obviously, near drowning has some massive, yet-to-be-revealed significance beyond the Ironborn. Sam, Tyrion, Davos, the Westeros septon to name a few.

[Rawrmawr]

On 3/31/2013 at 7:49 AM, KOM said:

Crackpot: "Under the sea" prophecies are just gibberish. The two most obviously correct ones: Shadows dancing, and RW, are not prefaced by the signature phrase "Under the sea."

This. Everything with "Under the sea" is not a prophecy. What he says might not be gibberish, though.

[Illyrio Mo'Parties]

Hey y'alls

Apologies if I'm repeating something - I searched, and I don't think I am - I think I've got something. I'm indebted to whoever it was that pointed out that the sea represents the land of the dead.

Patchface jumped up. “I will lead it!” His bells rang merrily. “We will march into the sea and out again. Under the waves we will ride seahorses, and mermaids will blow seashells to announce our coming, oh, oh, oh."

This is predicting Stannis's super-sweet fake-my-death-and-sneak-into-Winterfell plan.

I'm choosing to ignore "I will lead it!", just as I'm sure we're all ignoring "oh" and "ah" and whatnot. Patchface is still a fool, and says silly things; and he's still alive, and reacts to people around him. As far as we're concerned, "I will lead it!" merely serves to situate what follows in the context of a military operation - albeit the one being prophesied is different to the one under discussion at the time. I don't think the prophecy proper starts until "We will march..."

Transliteration

We will go to the land of the dead, and then we will go back to the land of the living.¹ While we're dead, we'll ride horses,² and the men of House Manderly will blow horns to announce our coming.³

So, there's three parts to this prophecy. They get increasingly tricky based on the exact logistics of Stannis's plan.

1 is pretty easy: Stannis is going to fake his death. He (and his men) will be "dead", and then they'll be alive again.

2 is unnecessarily specific. Yes, some of Stannis's men, possibly even Stannis himself, will be riding horses. Most won't, though, because they had to eat their horses, and much of the Frey cavalry is going to drown. But "riding horses" here really just means travelling, which is what they'll be doing: marching from the Crofter's Village to Winterfell, disguised as the Frey army. They may even stuff a dead guy into Stannis's (visually distinctive) armour, put Stannis's (visually distinctive) sword in his hand, and strap him across the back of a horse; that way, Stannis is able to ride a horse while dead, at least in the dream-logic of Patchface's babbling.

3 is the tricky one. I think it's fairly obvious that the mermaids refer to house Manderly, and the blowing seashells could refer to blowing horns. But the scenario could play out in several different ways.

• The Manderleys could travel with the fake Freys, blowing their horns outside the gates of Winterfell to let the Boltons know to let them in
• The Manderleys could blow their horns once everybody's inside Winterfell, as a signal to begin the attack
• They could be signalling the Umber host outside Winterfell
• They may not even blow any horns at all; if the horn-blowing is a signal that establishes one's bonafides and lets the enemy think you're a friend, then the Manderlys can perform that function by getting to Winterfell first and telling the Boltons that the Freys are coming up behind them. As long as Stannis's host matches the description given by the Manderlys, then the Boltons will let them in; thus the Manderlys could be said to have "announced their coming."

I note that, if the "coming" that is being "announced" is the coming back from the dead, then the horns must be blown to signal the attack.

Final note: perhaps a woman of House Manderly will "blow the horn", whatever that means (don't be dirty), and that explains why it's a mermaid rather than a merman.

[Tyrions_Big_Toe]

In regards to ''Under the sea the smoke rises in bubbles and the flames burn green blue and black'' A theory I thought of as I re read the quote was that 'under the sea' refers to the Others and their activity in most of these prophecies. The flames burning green blue and black are Deanerys' dragons but vicserion has been turned into an ice/ Wight dragon making him blue. 

It makes perfect sense to me and would be an extremely clever foreshadowing of future events that we haven't seen yet 

 

[Aemon Targaryen]

Apologies for the resurrection.

“Under the sea the mermen feast on starfish soup, and all the serving men are crabs”

"starfish" = the symbol of the Faith/the Seven-Pointed Star

"starfish soup" = the chaotic and conflicted state of the realm, with men fighting against men

"mermen" = the Others (i.e. mutant men, magic men, originally derived from a man -- also, magical and otherworldly and silent, like the Others, and who are the most naturally adapted to "under the sea" i.e. the realm of death)

"serving men" = wights -- specifically, dead men of the NW, dead warriors and dead knights, serving the Others and, no longer real men, scuttling around like crabs, with their jerky zombie movements.

 

(after tapping the above out, saw another poster had already suggested the starfish = the seven meaning)

I also noticed someone mentioned Patchface's sideways walk -- this could mean Patchface is also a serving man, serving the Others somehow?

[White Ravens]

Starfish have five legs.