Dragonsteel is not Valaryan Steel.

[TheLostStark]

What if the dark ripples within Valyrian steel is Dragon bone. That would explain why they are so durable.

[King of Winters]

anybody could theoretically wield it, but if anybody but The Sword Of The Morning wielded it, it would just be like a normal greatsword.

The Sword of the Morning and Dawn sound like they have a lot to do with The Long Night ending. After night went dawn came in the morning.

[messem]

Really? I've never heard of this 'people burst into flames and so die a horrible death if they dare to touch Dawn and they're not of Dayne blood'. Where is it in the text? Can you please be so kind as to point that out? Thanks!

Why should there something like this in the text? Unless of course YOU do take Prophecies and 8000 year-old story verbatim.

There is certainly a peculiar uniqueness of Dawn. Red herring?

[caravaggio]

AA to his squire (a predecessor of House Dayne): Whelp, looks like I'm dying. Hold onto this for me will you... until I rise again you know. You're The Sword of the Morning now.

Unknown Dayne: Gee thanks. Say hi to Nissa Nissa, that lion you killed, The Last Hero, and all those people.

Unknown Dayne: Hey dad, look what Azor gave me! A glowing sword!

Father Dayne: Gimme that! You're not worthy!

[King of Winters]

AA to his squire (a predecessor of House Dayne): Whelp, looks like I'm dying. Hold onto this for me will you... until I rise again you know. You're The Sword of the Morning now.

Unknown Dayne: Gee thanks. Say hi to Nissa Nissa, that lion you killed, The Last Hero, and all those people.

Unknown Dayne: Hey dad, look what Azor gave me! A glowing sword!

Father Dayne: Gimme that! You're not worthy!

Father Dayne: My precious.

[Ghost's Shadow]

One to kill them all...

[Ser Creighton]

What if the dark ripples within Valyrian steel is Dragon bone. That would explain why they are so durable.

The ripples are from folding, it's been stated in the books. Just like Tamahagane steel or Damascus steel.

[Barristan the G.O.A.T]

If Dawn is Lightbringer, and Jon is AAR (as you seem to vehemently believe), then Jon must be the child of Ashara & Ned/Brandon/Benjen.

From the wiki;

The Sword of the Morning is the title of the knight, usually from House Dayne, who bears the greatsword Dawn. The last to bear the title was Ser Arthur Dayne, a famed knight of the Kingsguard.

,

Apparently, you do not have to be from house Dayne. So if Dawn is lightbringer and Jon AAR, he would not have to be Ashara's child.

[Manderlay]

IMO Dragon steel will be a Valayrian steel sword reforged in dragon fire.

[The Knight of Grey Garden]

What if the dark ripples within Valyrian steel is Dragon bone. That would explain why they are so durable.

Exactly what I think, it wouldn't surprise me that it was made from dragon bone and/or dragon fire.

I'm still waiting for someone with a valyrian steel armor.

[Victor227]

One thing is that even the line in the book - not the actual book, but the one Sam was reading, is second and third-hand information. Books didn't even exist in the Seven Kingdoms prior to the Andal invasion, which means every written fact or legend about the Long Night and the Others is copied from ancient runestones of the First Men, or oral tradition going through the Night's Watch. Westeros' eight-thousand year history may be crunched down to only one or two simply by the fact that almost all of their early history is completely unreliable. It's mentioned a lot that the Age of Heroes is good for mythology, bad for fact, in that you have kings living hundreds of years, or heroes doing things decades and centuries before they were even supposedly born.

It's entirely possible that when the line about 'dragonsteel' was written, Valyrian Steel existed in the Seven Kingdoms, and the writer when gathering information went "Valyrian steel seems pretty magical, I should probably jazz up the name a bit though" Or perhaps it was simply known as dragonsteel at the time of the writing.

[The Night's Prince]

From the wiki;

The Sword of the Morning is the title of the knight, usually from House Dayne, who bears the greatsword Dawn. The last to bear the title was Ser Arthur Dayne, a famed knight of the Kingsguard.

,

Apparently, you do not have to be from house Dayne. So if Dawn is lightbringer and Jon AAR, he would not have to be Ashara's child.

I'm sorry to completely blow your mind but.....Wikipedia is user submitted information so it may or may not be entirely true. Sure I'm sure most of it is true but a couple of words here and there like in this case "usually" could be someone who wants Dawn to be Lightbringer and added that word in so someone like you could use it to quote and make a case for exactly that. As far as I know GRRM hasn't said anything about it except it belongs to House Dayne.

BUT if it hasn't been stated when it's been forged then that theory is very plausible.

[Ser Cookie Monster]

From the wiki;

The Sword of the Morning is the title of the knight, usually from House Dayne, who bears the greatsword Dawn. The last to bear the title was Ser Arthur Dayne, a famed knight of the Kingsguard.

,

Apparently, you do not have to be from house Dayne. So if Dawn is lightbringer and Jon AAR, he would not have to be Ashara's child.

Quoting the Wiki are you?

Well let me tell you what the Wiki says about Dawn:

Dawn is the ancestral greatsword of House Dayne. It is said to be made from metal forged from the heart of a fallen star. Its blade is as pale as milkglass. The sword is not necessarily passed to the lord of the house, but to the knight considered most worthy to wield it, who is then called the Sword of the Morning. The name of the Daynes' castle, Starfall, and their arms, featuring a white sword and falling star, both reference Dawn. The blade is said to be just as sharp as Valyrian steel.

To me it sounds like is passed to the most worthy knight OF the family. I don't think it could be passed to the most worthy knight in the Seven Kingdoms. Otherwise, it probably would have been given to someone else along all those years of history, don't you think? And there's a reason why Dawn is in the sigil of House Dayne, don't you think?

I still don't believe that Dawn is LB, no matter what people say. If turns out it is, then I'll probably feel bad :drunk: Altough, I do believe that Jon is AAR.

[Dagon Greyjoy]

Other than the fact that the Long Night precedes the development of Valyrian steel (or at least, the steel that the Valyrians themselves used; like Catastrophe suggested, someone else might have figured out the method) by like three thousand years?

Valyria emerged as a power something like, what, five thousand-ish years ago. Even if you accept some fudging in the dates, the Long Night was way, way before that.

Doesn't Hos Blackwood believe that all dates in legend have been greatly fudged? That pretty much everything in early Westeros happened a few thousand years later than commonly believed?

[Tylenol]

My personal opinion based on SFA, Valyrian steel is not dragonsteel and it will be made clear in later books.

When reading I have seen a few posts saying dragons were discovered X amount of years after the War of the Dawn, by Valerians. Ok, so Capybaras didn't exist until their discovery by Europeans in in the mid 17th century?Just because something hasn't been discovered doesn't mean it didn't exist and/or utilized by indigenous populations. I understand this comment does favor support for the dragonsteel is valerian steel argument, I am just trying to look at this logically.

The other thing I am noticing is in the first book there are no dragons, and they have been extinct for some time, and the long summer is ending, and the others are coming out of hiding/sleeping, signifying that their strength or influence over the world is increasing. So what if Dragons are to the Sun God like the others are to the Greater Other, servants of their corresponding god. When one population drops the other grows stronger, like cyote and rabbit populations here? Then that would suggest that at the time of the War of the Dawn dragons would have been few or none at all for long enough where the people of the time would have regarded them as legends, much like how people in the first book see White Walkers as stuff of legends. So dragonsteel may have been made with some use of dragons long before the War of the Dawn and some is still laying about during the war, just like the valerian steel is in the books. A lost art but there is still surviving specimens from that time, much like hand made hooked rugs. I haven't seen a new one or met anyone who makes them but there are still plenty laying about from the 40's and 50's, use to be a big thing here. Then after the War of the Dawn dragons start popping up again and used to bake cookies, make swords, and roast entire armies. Take that George Foreman Grill!

Ok after all that I am starting to think valerian steel might be the rediscovery of dragonsteel.... Did Valerians have their super steel before they discovered dragons or did it come later?

[Henry the Lighthearted]

I'm just wondering if Dragonbone can be ground up into fine dust and essentially reworked into an alloy substance. I know for a fact damascus steel and etc when they were just founded and early on didn't come in huge blocks by nature but were always some form of powder you needed to smelt or heat or what not to make them homogenous. Maybe dragonsteel is such or maybe valyrian swords do have ground bone properties in them. Would explain how they weigh like nothing but hold an edge like the steal that is part of it.

Mention of japanese smithing methods also leads me to believe that even if the dragonbone itself was impervious to fire, what about dragonfire? Couldn't a dragon kill another dragon with dragonfire? Could also mean the art was lost because you need dragons to forge it due to dragonbone being in the mix and dragons went extinct, aka no dragons to breathe into the alloy. Steel quenched in dragon blood maybe as well? Who knows but if it's a powder you can make of, anything is forgeable in alloy form.

[Kienn]

Summer mistook a comet for a dragon.

Star falls to earth.

Sword made from Star.

Sword made of dragonsteel.

Addendum - sword looks white like ice, so is named Ice. Said sword later brings the Dawn thanks to a Dayne... ta-daaa.

Maybe it's lightbringer... maybe it's not.

[Cat of the First Men]

I don't know if its been mentioned on these forums before, but I wonder whether the dragonsteel could be a particularly high quality steel which retains its ductility at very low temperatures (i.e. so the coldest ice won't make it brittle & fracture it).

Reading this thread reminded me of the brittle steel theory of the sinking of the Titanic. The theory was that the steel used for building the titanic became brittle in the ice-cold water and fractured on impact with an iceberg. In the same way, ordinary steel could become brittle and easily fracture in the ice-cold environment the Others bring.

In the world of Ice & Fire, perhaps more temperature-resistant ductile steel can be made by heating it with dragon fire. As to the name Valyrian Steel, in Singapore, there is no such thing as "Singapore Noodles", a dish commonly found on restaurant menus in other places around the world. The Valyrians wouldn't have called it Valyrian steel.

[echidna44]

They mentioned there was no common steel during the long night, so i'd guess that either dragonsteel is NOT valyrian steel or valyrian steel has no steel in its composition.

Edited for error.

[Olddoo48]

I actually believe that dragon steel is valaryan steel forged with dragon glass or obsidian.