slayer420 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 They don't, and it's not even remotely close.so you fine with govement waste and fraud got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Greguh Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Yes, how odd that we attacked the all-or-nothing argument which is exactly what you were making. You bludgeon into the thread with a howler like "giving people things makes them lazy" and then act all indignant when we start treating you like you actually stand by that statement and might be willing to defend it.Yes, shame on us for attacking the position that you actually stated, as opposed to the position that you appear to be retreating to now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 am I saying giving food to a staving person is bad thing NO I never said that. I just get sick of you guys attacking with the all or nothing thing. Its never like that. My own cousin is on food stamps. He uses them not for food but to trade for other stuff. He had a job offer the other day. he said he would not work for 8 dollars an hour. I was like what the fuck.You're the one who said giving free stuff to people makes them lazy. So what does it matter if the free stuff comes from private charity or the government? You're the one making all or nothing statements, it's just that when this shit gets thrown back in your face you all of a sudden can't remember what you said ten minutes ago. Arguing with you is like playing whack-a-mole with slow, stoned moles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slayer420 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I just don't understand how you guys don't understand that getting something for free will make some people not want to work. I really belive in the old saying give a man a fish, feed him for a day, teach him how to fish feed him for a lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Greguh Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 so you fine with govement waste and fraud got it.Lay off the bong, seriously. Like I said, we should do what we can to limit fraud and waste, but the degree to which I care about it is proportional to the numbers involved. I know, I'm weird, but systems that are in place specifically to funnel billions of dollars to the very top and exacerbate the ever-growing gap between the rich and poor in this country are of quite a bit more concern than the bums here and there that make fraudulent use of their food stamps, including your cousin. We have far more pressing problems than the ramifications of your lazy ass cousin being allowed to continue his lazy ass existence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I just don't understand how you guys don't understand that getting something for free will make some people not want to work. I really belive in the old saying give a man a fish, feed him for a day, teach him how to fish feed him for a lifetime.Oh spare me the dogshit platitudes kid.You still haven't told us why government free stuff is more motivation sapping than free stuff from charity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 am I saying giving food to a staving person is bad thing NO I never said that. I just get sick of you guys attacking with the all or nothing thing. Its never like that. My own cousin is on food stamps. He uses them not for food but to trade for other stuff. He had a job offer the other day. he said he would not work for 8 dollars an hour. I was like what the fuck. So report him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 So report him.I guess Mr. "I value actions not words" doesn't live up to his own shallow beliefs. He'd rather bitch about the poor than do something about it. Somehow, I'm sure the government made him too lazy to do something about his cousin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinDonner Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I just don't understand how you guys don't understand that getting something for free will make some people not want to work. I really belive in the old saying give a man a fish, feed him for a day, teach him how to fish feed him for a lifetime.So you're in favour of comprehensive government-sponsored adult education programs to help the unemployed out of poverty? I applaud you, ser!...or is that only if it doesn't cost anything? <_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slayer420 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Oh spare me the dogshit platitudes kid.You still haven't told us why government free stuff is more motivation sapping than free stuff from charity.I know this won't sway you. I would say to this that when I give to a charity. I check it out, I would go and help and see where the money is going. If I saw that they were not doing what they were saying and there was alot of waste and fraud and it was only helping a very few then I would have to choice to pull my money. This is not the case with a goverment program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slayer420 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 So you're in favour of comprehensive government-sponsored adult education programs to help the unemployed out of poverty? I applaud you, ser!...or is that only if it doesn't cost anything? <_<I would be for that. if it could be show that it was helping. I am not agaist giving them food to. I would like to see a program where they had to say pick up trash on the side of the road to get the food though. Anything to make them fill like the earned it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I know this won't sway you. I would say to this that if a give to a charity. I check it out, I would go and help and see where the money is going. If I saw that they were not doing what they were saying and there was alot of waste and fraud and it was only helping a very few then I would have to choice to pull my money. This is not the case with a goverment program.Bullshit. I know you don't do that kind of due diligence, and I'm about 95% sure you don't actually give to charity like you said. You're too lazy to do anything about your welfare cheating cousin, after all. I value actions, not words, and your actions tell me you'd rather bandy about poorly-thought-out inconsistent arguments about lazy poor people than actually do anything about the lazy poor people you actually know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormond Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I usually don't link to really polemlical articles but here's one I find myself agreeing with:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mitchell-bard/gop-construction-of-a-fic_b_1267435.html?ref=daily-brief?utm_source=DailyBrief&utm_campaign=021012&utm_medium=email&utm_content=BlogEntry&utm_term=Daily%20BriefI know that people on the left sometimes project their own "horror fantasies" of right wing authoritarianism onto Republican politicians who don't deserve it. But it seems like the modern world of SuperPACS and Fox News has raised the projection of the right's fantasies onto Obama to a new level. Much of what people on the right say about him seems to be not grounded in reality and more an article of religious faith than a rational assessment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Greguh Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 The philosophy, when put in practice according to your specifications, tends to be more "shit on the poor person in the hopes that he'll be motivated to learn how to fish." Amazingly, it doesn't show much in terms of results.Slayer: news flash, it's not the food stamps that makes your cousin lazy. He's just fucking lazy. I'm in favor of him not starving on the street, and of giving educational / training support to him if and when he those that show sufficient motivation to make use of such. Beyond that I don't particularly care. I know we liberals all come off as hippie-dippy do-gooders to those of your hardened "fuck the poor" sensibilities, but the reality is that the biggest difference between us is that we're smart enough not to be whipped into a frenzy about bullshit that's not worth being whipped into a frenzy about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slayer420 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 So report him.Maybe I should. I don't think it would change anything though. One case would not change anything though, and if he found out that it was me I am shore that would cost me more that what its costing in tax's. I just know there is a millon of the same kind of people out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Maybe I should. I don't think it would change anything though. One case would not change anything though, and if he found out that it was me I am shore that would cost me more that what its costing in tax's. I just know there is a millon of the same kind of people out there.Thanks for contributing to government waste and fraud. Maybe you could shut the fuck up about it now, since you're obviously comfortable with it in your own personal life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Lord of Winterfell Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 So money that's given away by the government makes people lazy, but the money that's being given away by charities doesn't? Do you even listen to what it is you're saying? Does the money somehow consciously know whether it's charitable or not? No, it's not what the money knows -- it's what the recipients know. It's not actually receiving money that makes some people lazy. It's the function of it being a legal entitlement so that people know they will receive it, and how that affects expectations, that can make some people lazy. There is no legal entitlement to receiving charity, and the income stream -- if there is a "stream" at all, is much less reliable. A charity is not bound by law to provide finds to a certain class of people, and remains free at any time to discontinue that donation. Plus, charitable contributions tend to be more focused, and directed at certain very specific causes or classes of people rather than being blasted at an entire income class.It reflects one of the basic problems government has. It must abide by bright line rules because it is a function of legislation/regulation, which means common-sense discretion is sometimes impossible. Charities aren't bound by that, and so can make exceptions either way -- giving more or less than they usually would -- based on a particularlized set of circumstances. At least, that's what the charities with which I've been involved do.To the extent you think I'm just making all this shit up, there was a discussion here about unemployment benefits awhile back where some people here said they'd rather just take unemployment rather than do a job they think is beneath them. That type of reasoning is pretty damn close to what is sometimes referred to as the "entitlement mentality". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Lord of Winterfell Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 Slayer: news flash, it's not the food stamps that makes your cousin lazy. He's just fucking lazy. There are lots and lots of people in this world who work their asses off at shit jobs to keep themselves and their families from starving, and to keep some form of shelter over their heads. They do that because living on government assistance is not an option for them, often because no such thing exists. How might the willingness of slayer's cousin to work change if the alternative was starving in the street? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slayer420 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Thanks for contributing to government waste and fraud. Maybe you could shut the fuck up about it now, since you're obviously comfortable with it in your own personal life. I love how you throw everything back in my face, you are so full of hate and anger. What happened to you to make you this way? I see you points I know they have truth to them. I know that everything I say is not right. I have never said that everyone on the left is wrong. I agree with some of what you say. You have to see there is some truth in what I say though to right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awesome possum Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 slayer420 is new I dunno, slayer seems to conveniently pop up when FLoW has talked himself into a corner. slayer shows up, takes the heat off FLoW by making his usual group of wild, unsubstantiated, mostly nonsensical posts and FLoW disappears... except to praise slayer for a specific point or to elaborate on a point slayer made. Slayer does the job of getting people worked up over nothing that FLoW used to do before people started catching on to his antics. You could take 50 % or 75 % of there money it won't help us.It would help us. It won't solve all the problems, is what I think you're trying to say. But hey, if we can't solve all the problems, why try at all? Just like in Emergency Rooms, if someone with cancer gets shot, and they can treat the bullet wound but not the cancer, why, they just let that guy die of the gunshot wound.Its this all or noting thing you got going. Nothing is like that in real life. I am going on the people around me and the people I know. The ones that try to sell me there food stamps to get drugs. I have NEVER said that people are poor are lazy. I say giving people stuff for free makes them lazy.So you think rich people are lazy too? After all, thanks to the tax code loopholes and credits that the rich are able to have their accountants and lawyers take advantage of means they get free stuff. So what is it? Are only poor people who get free stuff lazy?he said he would not work for 8 dollars an hour. I was like what the fuck.I wouldn't work for 8 dollars an hour. Fuck that. If I were fired tomorrow, the unemployment I would collect would better maintain my current lifestyle than a shitty McJob making $8 an hour. By current lifestyle I don't mean going out to eat or spending money on pointless material goods. I mean living in a nice house, driving a reliable car, and being able to eat healthy meals. Minimum wage in this country is a joke, but I'm sure it's just those lazy poor people again and not our system that rewards the rich who do nothing. I just don't understand how you guys don't understand that getting something for free will make some people not want to work. I really belive in the old saying give a man a fish, feed him for a day, teach him how to fish feed him for a lifetime.I defend your right to say what you're saying. Doing so gives me the right to call what you're saying fucking stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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