We Don't Like Daenerys 2

[Sevumar]

Possible. But remember that Dany felt life in one of the eggs before Mirri Maz Duur's death. For this life the price was already paid.

I suspect that the sacrifice of a death for life was enough to 'activate' the eggs and that the fire pyre was needed to crack the shells to free the dragons.

Dany tried to heat them on a brazer but the heat was not enough to crack the shell.

I'm not saying that what I've wrriten is the only explanation, but it's the sequence of events that makes the most sense to me. The only time I remember her feeling something unusual in the eggs is when she wakes up from the fever dream after Rhaego's delivery. And she's the only one who can feel it.

[Ser Ilyn's Tongue]

Dany's chapters mostly bored the shit out of me in ADWD, but in the end I thought they came good. Personally, I usually like her chapters. As a whole she's a well written and developed character, and, as this is the song of ice and fire I hold faith that her chapters will only get better and more important as the series reaches a climax.

I agree that her egotism is grating (even though she's far from the only character with an inflated opinion of themselves) but I can't agree that she's spoilt (she was part raised by Viserys FFS) or that she's incompetent. The situation in Mereen has become a mess but overall she has achieved a remarkable amount in a short space of time.

I don't care that she doesn't lead her army from the front or that she doesn't personally execute people herself. I see no reason why she should or is expected to.

She is not perfect, though. Her inexperience and arrogance have cost people and she is blind to advice. She's a teenager slightly drunk on power but even so, her humanitarian instincts seem more prevalent than vindictive ones. I find it difficult to judge her too harshly given that she has survived a difficult life, is starting to learn from her mistakes, and still has the chance and ability to do something good.

[Sevumar]

What's also unsettling is the "Do not presume to teach me lessons" part.

That's the encapsulation of her character from ASoS onward. Before then, her biggest strength was her adaptability and her willingness to learn. It's what set her apart from Viserys and helped her survive where he got himself killed.

[clover]

Great thread! On my mind for awhile now...

She is one step, one slippery step from becoming Viserys.

The quotes are the worst, she is saying some of the same things he did, when she refers to herself. "Blood of the dragon" etc. but in a pat myself on the back annoying way.

I respect that people like the character but I hope she loses. She is sheltered and in way over her head.

But the biggest annoyance is her blind sense of entitlement. The same fault she criticized her brother for.

I liked the character in the first two books and then it took a turn from there.

[Sevumar]

As a whole she's a well written and developed character, and, as this is the song of ice and fire I hold faith that her chapters will only get better and more important as the series reaches a climax.

I don't think most people here will claim that she's not well-written. Martin has a gift for characterization and it's a testament to his abilities that so many people have such a wide variety of strongly-held views about Dany's character. You don't have to be a fan of a particular character to realize that s/he is well-crafted.

She is not perfect, though. Her inexperience and arrogance have cost people and she is blind to advice. She's a teenager slightly drunk on power but even so, her humanitarian instincts seem more prevalent than vindictive ones. I find it difficult to judge her too harshly given that she has survived a difficult life, is starting to learn from her mistakes, and still has the chance and ability to do something good.

She was never a candidate for perfect. Some of her biggest flaws come from her age and her unwillingness to learn. Others come from her astounding ability to keep short-circuiting her decision-making process with choices made in bouts of temper instead of weighing the options calmly. She fails to regret her biggest mistakes, using them as fuel for the bonfire of her arrogance instead.

[clover]

Thank you...yes, that is the word, arrogant.

[FanTasy]

I'm not saying that what I've wrriten is the only explanation, but it's the sequence of events that makes the most sense to me. The only time I remember her feeling something unusual in the eggs is when she wakes up from the fever dream after Rhaego's delivery. And she's the only one who can feel it.

Ha ... I'm becoming a resident of the Realm of Speculation . :cool4:

There is no textual evidence, but I think it is possible that the life she felt in the egg after Rhaego died was the effect of the first price paid. The second price paid was Drogo's life, the third Mirri's.

Drogo not dying was - in this line of thinking - an exchange for the death of the stallion and caused by the spells in that tent. Drogo lived but was mindless, because no human life was paid for him.

[Sevumar]

Ha ... I'm becoming a resident of the Realm of Speculation . :cool4:

Aren't we all? For me, that's half the fun of reading ASOIAF.

There is no textual evidence, but I think it is possible that the life she felt in the egg after Rhaego died was the effect of the first price paid. The second price paid was Drogo's life, the third Mirri's.

Drogo not dying was - in this line of thinking - an exchange for the death of the stallion and caused by the spells in that tent. Drogo lived but was mindless, because no human life was paid for him.

I think Martin is deliberately vague on the mechanics of how this works. IIRC, he's said a few times that he favors magic systems where the rules are not spelled out for readers, and are not easily discernible.

For me, I'm less comfortable with the idea that the blood price could be paid for the lives of the three dragons over a period of time. I think that in order for the deaths to be a part of the exchange in blood magic, they have to occur when the magic is being invoked. Since Drogo's and Rhaego's deaths both occurred well before the pyre, I exclude them as candidates for the actual hatching in my interpretation.

[clover]

And perhaps one more bash and trash for the queen session and I am done.

I think what she has done for herself is very little and outweighs other things that have happened to her. A lot of her success has been luck, the work of others, key people being enthralled with her, or things given to her. When the going gets rough later in the series, I would not gamble on her rising to the occassion. Not even a dollar. Harsh, I know.

But I could be wrong. Some people would say, hey, that is brilliance. A sign of a good ruler/leader being able to motivate others to rally around you and do things for you. Either that or you are the Godfather.

Machiavelli would probably say her ability to stay relevant, in control, and have her followers grow is cool.

It think that's all I've got. LOL!

[Faint]

I think the far more interesting question for me is what she plans on doing now, her attempts at peaceful resolutions having failed so spectacularly. Her last chapter seems to give some indication that she is at last ready to embrace the “blood and fire” way of doing things but what does that mean exactly?

[Frey Pie]

Danys fine by my account aslong as somebody gets rid of her annoying bit on the side and his stupid swords.I can take a little arrogance here and there and self entitlement when shes freeing slaves spartacus style but come on...Daario....

[Lykos]

Here´s something to relax!

[thetitansbastard]

Of all the characters with a sense of entitlement, Danaerys is most deserving. Dragons were extinct.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

She's horrible. Her only redeeming characteristic is her dragons, and those were given to her. I don't believe her blood sacrifice did anything, its the comet the appearance of the others and heat of the fire that allow the eggs to hatch, I hope her dragons eat her. The faceless men send arya to kill her and take her place or Euron steals her dragons with his horn.

I did like the way she sacked Astapor though.

[The Mother of The Others]

Is this like one of those internet petitions?

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Danys fine by my account aslong as somebody gets rid of her annoying bit on the side and his stupid swords.I can take a little arrogance here and there and self entitlement when shes freeing slaves spartacus style but come on...Daario....

Daario is a lot more interesting than Dany. I'd rather he killed her and took over as leader of her host. Dario, The Tattered Prince and Brown Ben Plum... The Dragon has three heads!!!!!!!

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

What's also unsettling is the "Do not presume to teach me lessons" part.

Yeah although her willingness to be too compassionate lead Yunkai and Meereen to see her as weak and is leading to the deaths of innocent newly freed slaves. There are some advantages to your enemies believing you're crazy.

[mor2]

She has a goal and she works hard to reach it, she at least deserves that much.. right?

That she does. However, the best I can say about her hard work is that she had good intentions. Do you know what they say about the road to hell?

[deleted01]

That she does. However, the best I can say about her hard work is that she had good intentions. Do you know what they say about the road to hell?

It's easier than the road to heaven?

[Carey Snow]

I was mostly referring to the fact that she gets other people to do the work for her — Drogon and the Unsullied took out the Astapori slavers, she sat in a tent when the fight for Yunkai was on, Barristan and Jorah and Grey Worm crawled through the sewers in Meereen. Other people do her torturing and interrogating for her and I'm certain she didn't crucify those people herself.

I think you can accurately say that she gave up a lot of her own happiness to attempt to secure Meereen by accepting the marriage proposal, yes. But I don't think that's the same as saying that she worked hard.

Well she is a 15 year old girl (or whatever her age is). Getting other people to do your work for you is a great skill to have and it is verymuch needed in her position.

Arya was very fortunate to have Jaqen in Harrenhall after all. So it is not like every chracter is going to be able to fight his or her own battles with their bare hands.

I think some people's hate of Dany is a little unhealthy.