Arya

[Stark Fanboy]

I don't see Arya becoming a FM. Just because she says her prayer everyday. Plus she likes her wolf dreams and kept needle. The only way she could even become no one is if went to westoros and killed nymeria in order to forget herself. I see an awesome entrance back at westoros either showing up with stannis' sellswords or ending up in the vale saying, "hey sis, need anyone dead? i can help you!" Yes she will be darker, but that is what she's good at (stealth).

[Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren]

Arya had already a pretty dark story and I see her remaining a gray character through the end. Not necessarily turning a villain though.

One issue it would be interesting to see more focus upon is if she is challenged about her killings and also starts to feel self doubt about them and increased remorse. Though I myself am conflicted about that, I do enjoy reading about badass Arya and her self confidence trait and less self doubt than some other characters often makes her chapters pretty enjoyable. Still I probably lean in favor of her examining more her actions than in the past.

[Jadiecat]

I like your thoughts on Arya and I can see her become one of the leaders that are needed, I'm curious how/where/who/what because I see a few options there.

On Sansa one thing does make me wonder; it's the way she is desenitized to Littlefinger's violent actions. She was terrified of Joff but seems accepting of LF. I wonder if this means she'll be more ruthless, going to the dark side a little, or if it's part of her freedom with Alayne. It may help her understand Arya a little better when they reunite.

Sansa does seem resigned to what LF is doing and is wearily going through the motions of being his accomplice.

But she's so different than she was, when she just kept being blind to the motives of those around her, and kept making assumptions based on a false sense of the way things should be. So often she blurted things out, or made choices, based on this, that came back to hurt her and others.

She may feel powerless and depressed, but I get a feeling that there's a process going on inside her that's going to translate into action later on. After Lysa's moon door trip, she seems so much wiser about the motives of others, and so much more canny. She's not giving herself away anymore.I think she's figuring out the danger little Robert is in, and she wants to protect him. And look who she has to manage -- the master of deceit and game playing!

I just get the feeling that Littlefinger is the one who is going to get played, by Sansa, in the end.

I haven't gotten to that part of my reread yet. Maybe I'm reading way into it?

[Hodorific]

That is good to hear. I was unaware of Mrs. Martin's feelings.

[kneo]

Arya will end up fine. She has a strong personality and she shows us that her character was not affected in any way while she is staying with the FM. She does exactly what it needs to be done in order to get to the next step. She is not naive at all she knows what are the consequences if she would try leaving.

[Independent George]

What I wonder about is what her future with the Faceless Men is. In order to become one of them, she has to give up everything; it's not explicitly stated, but I think it's safe to assume that from this point forward, she cannot leave the order except by death. They don't teach their skills lightly, and have stated more than once that they require complete obedience and commitment from her. They've already given her a chance at a different life, and they already gave her a chance to turn back before she began her true training. She's already been given her first face, and she's already completed her first assignment; I think she's theirs for life now.

The question now is what they plan to do with her. Bravos was founded by escaped slaves, and the first Faceless Men worked in service to the slaves of old Valyria. Up until now, they've never taken sides in a political conflict, but the destruction of the slave trade (by a Valyrian Queen, ironically), and the forthcoming war against the undead, seems to have a direct relationship with the tenets of their order. The slaves of Volantis are waiting for their Queen; it's plausible that the Bravosi (and the Faceless Men) might also support her.

Since FFC, I've wondered whether the Many-Faced God could be interpreted as the 'Other' God by the Red Priests. The wights could be interpreted as either an abomination to the gift of the Many-Faced God (death is meant to bring peace, not torment), or it could be viewed as a sign of his favor. I lean towards the former interpretation, but I suspect the red priests would see the latter.

[Neriwyn]

*sorry for my English*

Expect you, Independant George, you all agree Arya will stay Arya Stark and return to Westeros. I'm new in this univers and I read very quickly all the books so maybe sometimes I missed some important point and my guess are not realistic.

Anyway : for me, Arya will manage te become no one (even if for now she still have wolf dream and keep needle) and learn all from the FM. Maybe she will return in Westeros one time, but no as Arya, just as a disciple. And if this happens I will love Arya even more, because all she have done will make sense. If she leaves before the end of her training, so yes, for me she's a killer who has lost a part of her for nothing and I will be a little desapointed (but it's Arya, so... I will forgive her ^_^)

[Elaena Targaryen]

*sorry for my English*

Expect you, Independant George, you all agree Arya will stay Arya Stark and return to Westeros. I'm new in this univers and I read very quickly all the books so maybe sometimes I missed some important point and my guess are not realistic.

Anyway : for me, Arya will manage te become no one (even if for now she still have wolf dream and keep needle) and learn all from the FM. Maybe she will return in Westeros one time, but no as Arya, just as a disciple. And if this happens I will love Arya even more, because all she have done will make sense. If she leaves before the end of her training, so yes, for me she's a killer who has lost a part of her for nothing and I will be a little desapointed (but it's Arya, so... I will forgive her ^_^)

First don't worry your english is very good. Yes I agree it's possible that Arya could become no one, stay with the Faceless Men, and if she returns to Westeros it will be as a disciple. Their are a lot of posters on this forum, and some may not be the biggest Arya fans, who think this as well because what would be the point in all of her training. So there is some logic to that, it's just some of us want her back as Arya. Like you I will love her and forgive her no matter what. Also there are signs, more than needle and wolf dreams, that she could return as Arya, but there are also signs that she will return as a FM. This is the fun of speculating with Arya, she has so many options. No matter what happens I would really like, and fully expect, her to be reunited with some, if not all of her surviving family members.

If Arya returns as a FM it could be on a mission. Some have speculated things like to kill Cersei, to go to the Citadel with Jaqen/Pate, or to aid Stannis among other things. If Arya returns for herself it could be she heard about Jon, her fake marriage, or we know of some traveling to Braavos among other things. Some of those that might travel to Braavos are on Arya's list but so is Cersei. I just can't wait till the next book comes out so we can have a better idea! I just love Arya and I'm so happy she was in all five books, I don't think I could have gone without her, we are lucky because Arya is the only character in all of the books. ;)

[Faint]

I had not noticed on my first read of ADwD but Arya's road home now seems clear.

Ser Harys Swyft is on the way to Braavos to treat with the Iron Bank and he's taking the Mountain's men (including Dunsen and Raff the Sweetling) as bodyguards.

Given the time disparity between Arya and the other on-going storylines, I think it likely that in her next chapter she'll see the two from her list wandering around Braavos. From there I think Arya will kill both and assume the identity of one of the two and make it back to King's Landing in Swyft's party, where she has unfinished business with Meryn Trant for starters.

[Raksha the Demon]

I like your thoughts on Arya and I can see her become one of the leaders that are needed, I'm curious how/where/who/what because I see a few options there.

On Sansa one thing does make me wonder; it's the way she is desenitized to Littlefinger's violent actions. She was terrified of Joff but seems accepting of LF. I wonder if this means she'll be more ruthless, going to the dark side a little, or if it's part of her freedom with Alayne. It may help her understand Arya a little better when they reunite.

I am worried about both sisters. They are both in the hands of very questionable guardians who are slowly corrupting them. Arya has killed a man who she did not even know, just because the Kindly Man gave her the deed as an assignment. She is being taught to be a hired murderer; which I regard as an immoral occupation; and a sad comedown for Ned Stark's daughter.

Sansa is being mentored and seduced (emotionally and sexually) by the man who betrayed her father and helped bring about his death (not to mention start the Stark/Lannister war by telling Catelyn that the dagger that nearly killed Bran was Tyrion's). She has already, prompted by Littlefinger, borne false witness to convict a man of a murder he did not commit. And she is, so far, following much of Littlefinger's agenda and is learning from him.

I don't blame either Arya or Sansa for doing what they are doing at the moment. Arya tried desperately to get home, or to get to her mother; and could not find sanctuary except with those who wanted to drag her somewhere else to get a ransom for her. (the Hound seems to have at least made an effort to keep her safe) She really didn't have anywhere else where she could go, alone and friendless as she was. The Faceless Men at least kept her safe and fed, before they blinded her and then gave her back her sight after months, and directed her to murder someone. (sorry, but I hate the way the Faceless Men are taking advantage of this kid) Arya just didn't have any other options. And as for her murdering a stranger; it's an act that most definitely puts Arya with at least one foot over the line into the Dark Side; but after what she has seen and endured at so young an age, it's understandable. And there is still time for Arya to reject the idea of murdering for money (or even murdering to please her mentors).

Sansa is also between a rock and a hard place. She is Public Enemy #2 on Cersei's list, after Tyrion; if she tries to leave the Eyrie or the Vale, she'd probably be either stolen by outlaws and raped or dragged back to King's Landing for torture and execution. There are no Stark vassals left who can help her, as far as Sansa knows; and she is quite gun-shy about trusting anyone, even Bronze Yohn, to whom she was tempted to reveal her true identity. Littlefinger can send her out the Moon Door if she betrays him; I think she knows how ruthless he can be toward those who deviate from his plan. She trusts half of him; Petyr, her new "Father", Petyr Baelish; but she is nervous about Littlefinger and does not welcome his sexual overtures. I think that Littlefinger will try to get Sansa to be his accomplice in the poisoning of SweetRobin, to strengthen his hold over her. It is also notable that Littlefinger has it nicely arranged that Sansa has to rely on him for protection, since he engineered her unwitting involvement in Joffrey's murder. He's also discouraging her from trusting anyone else - Tyrion was evil, he would have thrown her to his guards like his first wife, Dontos just helped her for coin, watch what she says to Myranda, etc.

As far as Sansa being accepting of Littlefinger after being terrified of Joffrey; Littlefinger has not humiliated Sansa or had her beaten or threatened to kill her or rape her. He did carry her away from King's Landing. Littlefinger's approach is more dangerous than Joffrey's; he is far more intelligent and subtle than Joff ever would have been, in my opinion. She has seen him kill Lysa; but I would imagine that Sansa felt as much relief as horror; since Lysa had tried her best to kill Sansa first. As far as Littlefinger framing Marillion for murder with Sansa's help; Sansa probably felt it wrong, but something they had to do; the only other suspects for Lysa's death were Littlefinger (who Sansa needs) and Sansa herself; and Marillion not only tried to rape Sansa, but was Lysa's accomplice in her attempted murder of Sansa. Littlefinger is getting Sansa quite used to lying and being actively involved with injustice; and it isn't right; but she has little alternative.

Both Arya and Sansa have been directed by their mentors to take on not just new names but new identities. The Kindly Man's insistence that Arya not only become someone other than herself but obliterate Arya Stark entirely is sad. In contrast, Littlefinger's Pygmalion-like transformation of damsel-in-distress Sansa Stark into the less well-dressed but "bastard brave" (Sansa's own words) Alayne Stark was rather ingenious as a temporary measure to hide Sansa from both Cersei and the many others who would like to use Ned Stark's only (as far as anyone other than the Boltons and Manderly and now Davos know) child for their purposes. Sansa is also getting a much needed broader education by living as a lord's acknowledged bastard; she is pushing herself to be more daring and have a wider circle of acquaintances, people like Mya Stone, who she might not have looked twice at two years ago when she was a sheltered and naive little girl who was Lord Stark's pampered older daughter. But if Sansa continues for more than a year or two as Alayne Stone, I fear she might bury what was good and noble in her Stark upbringing and heritage.

So I'm hoping that there will be a breaking point for both the Stark girls, where they say 'Enough', and are able to rebel and find their true selves again, selves that have been enriched and hardened as well as saddened, but selves that are still the daughters of Winterfell.

[kephv]

From there I think Arya will kill both and assume the identity of one of the two and make it back to King's Landing in Swyft's party, where she has unfinished business with Meryn Trant for starters.

I don't know if that would work out so well. Both are full grown men, and even though they have glamors and such, I doubt she'd be able to assume either one without notice. There has to be limits to how something like that would work.

[Solaris]

What I wonder about is what her future with the Faceless Men is. In order to become one of them, she has to give up everything; it's not explicitly stated, but I think it's safe to assume that from this point forward, she cannot leave the order except by death. They don't teach their skills lightly, and have stated more than once that they require complete obedience and commitment from her. They've already given her a chance at a different life, and they already gave her a chance to turn back before she began her true training. She's already been given her first face, and she's already completed her first assignment; I think she's theirs for life now.

The question now is what they plan to do with her. Bravos was founded by escaped slaves, and the first Faceless Men worked in service to the slaves of old Valyria. Up until now, they've never taken sides in a political conflict, but the destruction of the slave trade (by a Valyrian Queen, ironically), and the forthcoming war against the undead, seems to have a direct relationship with the tenets of their order. The slaves of Volantis are waiting for their Queen; it's plausible that the Bravosi (and the Faceless Men) might also support her.

Since FFC, I've wondered whether the Many-Faced God could be interpreted as the 'Other' God by the Red Priests. The wights could be interpreted as either an abomination to the gift of the Many-Faced God (death is meant to bring peace, not torment), or it could be viewed as a sign of his favor. I lean towards the former interpretation, but I suspect the red priests would see the latter.

I think her being with the FM is simply her getting an education that she desperately wanted. Arya was so disempowered by the downfall of her family and that kind of overwhelming helplessness changes people (as we have witnessed with her). Arya is completely obedient.... for the time being as long as it suits her. She cannot completely let go of self whilst she has a warg bond with Nymeria. I think Arya is going to be a special case for the FM, alot of their training forces a rebirth into a nobody like a robot that is fed information and is sent out IMO, her warging makes her transition to no one never quite complete. The text would suggest that the harder she tries to become nobody and forcibly tries to forget Arya Stark the more her wolf dreams seem to happen and assult her harder, almost like in reflexive protection of her mind.

I have a theory that the FM are going to send Arya with the face of Missandei to Dany and from there she is likely to end up back in Westeros.

Yes the many faced God has the aspect of R'hllor the kindly man tells us that when he is explaining it all to Arya. That all the Gods are represented here even the ones that no one remembers. I don't know about the wight part, there is some suggestion I think in aDwD that the others would appear to have some memory it is cause for debate as to whether they are really dead or just enslaved, so I'd say that if that is the case your first suggestion is perhaps the correct one, that being they would be the cause of abomination to the Many Faced God.

[Elaena Targaryen]

I think her being with the FM is simply her getting an education that she desperately wanted. Arya was so disempowered by the downfall of her family and that kind of overwhelming helplessness changes people (as we have witnessed with her). Arya is completely obedient.... for the time being as long as it suits her. She cannot completely let go of self whilst she has a warg bond with Nymeria. I think Arya is going to be a special case for the FM, alot of their training forces a rebirth into a nobody like a robot that is fed information and is sent out IMO, her warging makes her transition to no one never quite complete. The text would suggest that the harder she tries to become nobody and forcibly tries to forget Arya Stark the more her wolf dreams seem to happen and assult her harder, almost like in reflexive protection of her mind.

Yes Arya and Nymeria have that "bond" with eachother that can not be broken, it's for life. Ayra is a part of Nymeria's pack and Nymeria might be reaching out to her through Arya's wolf dreams. The pack is a very connected mind set and they long for eachother, plus there is the extra bond with warging. We have not seen Arya actively reach out to fully skinchange into her wolf so this is her wolf actively reaching out to her because when Arya is asleep her mind is clear and she is more subsetible. Another time is when Arya escapes Harrenhall many believe Nymeria protected Arya from those following and hunting her. I think all of this is quite possible, so it could be impossible for Arya to be no one.

[Independent George]

Does anybody else think that the Kindly Man is well aware of her hiding Needle beneath the stone, and that one of the last steps in training is for her to retrieve it and give it up for real? I just can't imagine him being fooled so easily. It's like that copy of Playboy you hid under the mattress when you were 14 - Dad knows you've got it, but he's willing to look the other way right up until Mom finds out.

[Lady Blackfyre]

Does anybody else think that the Kindly Man is well aware of her hiding Needle beneath the stone, and that one of the last steps in training is for her to retrieve it and give it up for real? I just can't imagine him being fooled so easily. It's like that copy of Playboy you hid under the mattress when you were 14 - Dad knows you've got it, but he's willing to look the other way right up until Mom finds out.

Yes, I believe it's quite possible that the Kindly Man knows about Needle. In fact, do we know if the sword is still in that crack in the stairs? I wouldn't be terribly surprised if next time Arya goes to check on Needle, she finds it isn't there anymore.

[kephv]

Yes, I believe it's quite possible that the Kindly Man knows about Needle. In fact, do we know if the sword is still in that crack in the stairs? I wouldn't be terribly surprised if next time Arya goes to check on Needle, she finds it isn't there anymore.

It wasn't mentioned in Dance. It could be that he doesn't know (he might not have watched her when she went outside), or he does and just assumes she uses it for protection, as the only time she takes it with her is when she becomes Cat.

[Solaris]

Yes Arya and Nymeria have that "bond" with eachother that can not be broken, it's for life. Ayra is a part of Nymeria's pack and Nymeria might be reaching out to her through Arya's wolf dreams. The pack is a very connected mind set and they long for eachother, plus there is the extra bond with warging. We have not seen Arya actively reach out to fully skinchange into her wolf so this is her wolf actively reaching out to her because when Arya is asleep her mind is clear and she is more subsetible. Another time is when Arya escapes Harrenhall many believe Nymeria protected Arya from those following and hunting her. I think all of this is quite possible, so it could be impossible for Arya to be no one.

:agree: although I don't know if the wolves are capable of initiating the contact? Arya's FM training seems to be having the double effect of developing her warging abilities, resulting in her being able to warg the cat etc I think it is insane she is able to connect with Nymeria so far away somehow I imagined it would not be possible. I agree with the wolves at Harrenhall too, we have seen alot of wolf interference when it comes to their familiar. To add to that I also think that Nymeria deliberately spared Sandor when Arya left him to die because Arya said he was to be spared, there was alot of hinting that the wolves were not so far behind them every step of the way and they seemed to be hunting indescriminately but they left the Hound alone and he was found by that brother.

Yes, I believe it's quite possible that the Kindly Man knows about Needle. In fact, do we know if the sword is still in that crack in the stairs? I wouldn't be terribly surprised if next time Arya goes to check on Needle, she finds it isn't there anymore.

I think he knows too but on your last point it made me remember what happened to the last person that took Needle... I think that would set her right off, she would likely kill whoever took it.

[m_k]

Ok here goes my theory. Arya keeps needle and prays her usual prayer every night which makes me think she will return eventually to westeros. Now the big question is how? The faceless man are a very old and secret organization and supposedly the best assassin. arya can't escape from such people just like that or just say good bye and leave if that happens they will surely hunt her down and kill her. So it must be some sort of mission where FM send her to westros. I guess that misson will be to kill danerys and her dragon. I have some evidence to support this theory.

1. We know from the braavossi banker that braavoss does not like dragon

2. From the prologue of a feast for crows we know that alchemist ( i think he is a FM agent) killed pate to obtain a key of citadel which can open any lock of citadel.

3. From tyrion in a dance with dragon we know that the only copy of a book called " The death of dragons" is at citadel.

So i guess FM will try to kill dragon. It does not make sense that GRRM will send unknown FM agent so i think it will be arya who have successfully completed her first assignment. Also i think she wont be killing any person from her list because most of them are dead and remaining are not that important.

P.S Arya already knew about the fake arya. She has this info when she was traveling with hound and she still goes to bravos so I think that wont be a reason for her return.

[Solaris]

Ok here goes my theory. Arya keeps needle and prays her usual prayer every night which makes me think she will return eventually to westeros. Now the big question is how? The faceless man are a very old and secret organization and supposedly the best assassin. arya can't escape from such people just like that or just say good bye and leave if that happens they will surely hunt her down and kill her. So it must be some sort of mission where FM send her to westros. I guess that misson will be to kill danerys and her dragon. I have some evidence to support this theory.

1. We know from the braavossi banker that braavoss does not like dragon

2. From the prologue of a feast for crows we know that alchemist ( i think he is a FM agent) killed pate to obtain a key of citadel which can open any lock of citadel.

3. From tyrion in a dance with dragon we know that the only copy of a book called " The death of dragons" is at citadel.

So i guess FM will try to kill dragon. It does not make sense that GRRM will send unknown FM agent so i think it will be arya who have successfully completed her first assignment. Also i think she wont be killing any person from her list because most of them are dead and remaining are not that important.

P.S Arya already knew about the fake arya. She has this info when she was traveling with hound and she still goes to bravos so I think that wont be a reason for her return.

Yes and I doubt they are going to like Dany when she is running around freeing slaves and in general causing economic chaos not to mention civil unrest. All that killing maiming and slaughtering is bad for banking and loans.

I don't know if the FM really want that book, the alchemist did not kill Pate to obtain the Key he paid him with a poisioned coin, remember to the FM death is the ultimate reward. Whoever hires them has to have an absolute truck load of wealth to do it. The FM are not concerned with anything other than bringing the absolute peace in death on people.

So, crackpot theory - why would the FM require the master key to the citadel if their only business is killing people? I don't think dragon's would really class as ... people (could be wrong but I don't think they would be interested) there must be something under lock and key that the FM need in order to fulfil their contract successfully.

What if the citadel has Lightbringer? If an FM was hired to off the Great Other who probably is just another person (an avatar) of that God on earth just as Azor Ahai is an agent of R'hllor, that would require Lightbringer and we all know how much the citadel hates magic and locks so much away.

[Neriwyn]

Ser Harys Swyft is on the way to Braavos to treat with the Iron Bank and he's taking the Mountain's men (including Dunsen and Raff the Sweetling) as bodyguards.

Justin Massey too is on the way to Braavos and he comes from the north with news of Winterfell and Jon... Maybe this can be a good reason to return to Westeros (I don't know !)

I have a theory that the FM are going to send Arya with the face of Missandei to Dany and from there she is likely to end up back in Westeros.

For that, she has to kill Missendei no ? I hope you're wrong.