Euron paid the Faceless Men with his dragon egg

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

obviously the many faced god recognizes all of the other gods as merely one facets of one god, just as the 7 are aspects of 1 god. I do think the many faced god may well be the "Great Other"

Yes. My point was, the only reason Jaqen mentioned the Red God was probably due to the manner in which they would have died, not because he has any real "preference" for that particular deity.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Yes. My point was, the only reason Jaqen mentioned the Red God was probably due to the manner in which they would have died, not because he has any real "preference" for that particular deity.

yes, I know. I was agreeing with you.

[Melifeather]

For what purpose would Euron hired the Faceless Men to assassinate Danaerys? Didn't he ask Victarion to go bring him his bride? He doesn't want Dany killed. He wants to marry her and join their strengths to rule all of Westeros.

[Roose Seal]

For what purpose would Euron hired the Faceless Men to assassinate Danaerys? Didn't he ask Victarion to go bring him his bride? He doesn't want Dany killed. He wants to marry her and join their strengths to rule all of Westeros.

Nobody hired a FM to murder Dany. Euron presumably (most definitely) hired a FM to murder his brother Balon

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Nobody hired a FM to murder Dany. Euron presumably (most definitely) hired a FM to murder his brother Balon

either that or he is a faceless man

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

For what purpose would Euron hired the Faceless Men to assassinate Danaerys? Didn't he ask Victarion to go bring him his bride? He doesn't want Dany killed. He wants to marry her and join their strengths to rule all of Westeros.

Where are you getting that from? The issue is, Euron hired a Faceless Man to kill Balon.

[Melifeather]

Something weird is going on with this thread. I had selected multiquotes to answer to and they all disappeared, so I will put my ideas here and invite everyone reading this to reply back with their comments. @Apple Martini, that post regarding killing Dany was from the beginning of this thread.

I have four main things that I want to discuss:

1) Faceless Men origins and how they relate to being for or against dragons: one of my theories is that they could actually be for dragons. Yes they are from Valyria and their origins were as slaves, but I think they could have freed themselves from their masters with dragons. And, who knows...perhaps the Targaryens were former slaves as well? It would explain Dany's aversion to slaves. The origins of the Doom of Valyria seem to imply a volcanic eruption. The Targaryens brought dragons with them to Dragonstone and later Westeros (after their escape from Valyria/volcanoes), as well as dragonglass and dragonsteel, all three are derived from the fire of volcanoes. All three are weapons that can kill The Others.

Or the FM could be against dragons: they're a religious sect that honors all death gods, and because of that, they could be aligned with the Others and/or Great Other. If they are aligned with the Others/Great Other, this would be in direct conflict with Dany and dragons.

2) People of Braavos: Braavos was founded by refugees hiding from dragons and the Valyrian expansion. This could still mean (or equal) a for or against dragons in regard to the FM. On the for dragons side: rather than including the Faceless Men among the refugees, they could have followed any remaining masters to Braavos to kill them. The passage most of you refer to, where the kindly old man is teaching Arya about the origins of the FM, as proof that they are against dragons, can be read either way. They could have simply brought the "gift" to the masters as part of a contract, or they could have performed it of their own free will.

3) How I align some of the characters:

A-team: Illyrio, Varys, Jaqen, Marwyn - ex Faceless Men who are working independently

B-team: Citadel, Braavos, Petyr, (maybe Faceless Men, if they are against dragons)

C-team: Faceless Men - against their religious principals to decide who to give the Gift to. Can be hired by anyone.

4) Euron: I believe Euron used his egg plus "something else" to hire the FM to kill Balon. Now he wants to find Dany and her dragons. I do not have a solid answer as to why he sends Victarion on the same mission, but perhaps he hopes Vicarion will be killed in the process? I do not believe that Euron will hire the FM to kill Dany. He wants her dragons, but perhaps he plans to use the horn to take control of them and kill her after he has control.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Something weird is going on with this thread. I had selected multiquotes to answer to and they all disappeared, so I will put my ideas here and invite everyone reading this to reply back with their comments. @Apple Martini, that post regarding killing Dany was from the beginning of this thread. I have four main things that I want to discuss: 1) Faceless Men origins and how they relate to being for or against dragons: one of my theories is that they could actually be for dragons. Yes they are from Valyria and their origins were as slaves, but I think they could have freed themselves from their masters with dragons. And, who knows...perhaps the Targaryens were former slaves as well? It would explain Dany's aversion to slaves. The origins of the Doom of Valyria seem to imply a volcanic eruption. The Targaryens brought dragons with them to Dragonstone and later Westeros (after their escape from Valyria/volcanoes), as well as dragonglass and dragonsteel, all three are derived from the fire of volcanoes. All three are weapons that can kill The Others. Or the FM could be against dragons: they're a religious sect that honors all death gods, and because of that, they could be aligned with the Others and/or Great Other. If they are aligned with the Others/Great Other, this would be in direct conflict with Dany and dragons. 2) People of Braavos: Braavos was founded by refugees hiding from dragons and the Valyrian expansion. This could still mean (or equal) a for or against dragons in regard to the FM. On the for dragons side: rather than including the Faceless Men among the refugees, they could have followed any remaining masters to Braavos to kill them. The passage most of you refer to, where the kindly old man is teaching Arya about the origins of the FM, as proof that they are against dragons, can be read either way. They could have simply brought the "gift" to the masters as part of a contract, or they could have performed it of their own free will. 3) How I align some of the characters: A-team: Illyrio, Varys, Jaqen, Marwyn - ex Faceless Men who are working independently B-team: Citadel, Braavos, Petyr, (maybe Faceless Men, if they are against dragons) C-team: Faceless Men - against their religious principals to decide who to give the Gift to. Can be hired by anyone. 4) Euron: I believe Euron used his egg plus "something else" to hire the FM to kill Balon. Now he wants to find Dany and her dragons. I do not have a solid answer as to why he sends Victarion on the same mission, but perhaps he hopes Vicarion will be killed in the process? I do not believe that Euron will hire the FM to kill Dany. He wants her dragons, but perhaps he plans to use the horn to take control of them and kill her after he has control.

No, that is incorrect. I do believe Jaqen was hired to kill Pate. I believe he was hired by Illyrio.

He was hired by Illyrio to kill Pate? So why is he hanging around the Citadel? And of course there's no evidence Illyrio is aware of Pate's existence. Nor is Pate difficult to kill, why hire a faceless man to do it?

OK...for some reason the above passage makes logical sense to you, but it is not the same to me, and the passage regarding Meribald and Brienne does not appear relevant.

Its relavent to how the facless men would view the god of the Faith. One aspect of the many faced god of which the stranger is itself one aspect.

Meribald is speaking of the Seven. When the kindly old man is instructing Arya, he says the FM brought the gift to the masters as well as the slaves, but you are taking a leap that this would also encompass eliminating dragons.

The masters were the dragonlords of Valyria and we know that when Valyria was destroyed, so too were the Dragons.

Valyria. It was written that on the day of Doom every hill for five hundred miles had split asunder to fill the air with

ash and smoke and fire, blazes so hot and hungry that even the dragons in the sky were engulfed and consumed.

Great rents had opened in the

earth, swallowing palaces, temples, entire towns. Lakes boiled or turned to acid, mountains burst, fiery fountains spewed molten rock a thousand

feet into the air, red clouds rained down dragonglass and the black blood of demons, and to the north the ground splintered and collapsed and fell

in on itself and an angry sea came rushing in. The proudest city in all the world was gone in an instant, its fabled empire vanished in a day, the

Lands of the Long Summer scorched and drowned and blighted.

[Melifeather]

He was hired by Illyrio to kill Pate? So why is he hanging around the Citadel? And of course there's no evidence Illyrio is aware of Pate's existence. Nor is Pate difficult to kill, why hire a faceless man to do it? Its relavent to how the facless men would view the god of the Faith. One aspect of the many faced god of which the stranger is itself one aspect. The masters were the dragonlords of Valyria and we know that when Valyria was destroyed, so too were the Dragons.

Valyria. It was written that on the day of Doom every hill for five hundred miles had split asunder to fill the air with

ash and smoke and fire, blazes so hot and hungry that even the dragons in the sky were engulfed and consumed.

Great rents had opened in the

earth, swallowing palaces, temples, entire towns. Lakes boiled or turned to acid, mountains burst, fiery fountains spewed molten rock a thousand

feet into the air, red clouds rained down dragonglass and the black blood of demons, and to the north the ground splintered and collapsed and fell

in on itself and an angry sea came rushing in. The proudest city in all the world was gone in an instant, its fabled empire vanished in a day, the

Lands of the Long Summer scorched and drowned and blighted.

Why did you copy this from the other thread and brought them here? There's no need to double our conversation. I've already answered most of this in the other thread, but I had forgotten to answer your part regarding the discussion between Meribald and Brienne. Yes, the Stranger is a death god, but the god of many faces encompasses more death gods than just the Stranger.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Why did you copy this from the other thread and brought them here? There's no need to double our conversation. I've already answered most of this in the other thread, but I had forgotten to answer your part regarding the discussion between Meribald and Brienne. Yes, the Stranger is a death god, but the god of many faces encompasses more death gods than just the Stranger.

because i saw you were reading this thread and we were discussing the same topic.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Why did you copy this from the other thread and brought them here? There's no need to double our conversation. I've already answered most of this in the other thread, but I had forgotten to answer your part regarding the discussion between Meribald and Brienne. Yes, the Stranger is a death god, but the god of many faces encompasses more death gods than just the Stranger.

Or the stranger isn't a god at all. but part of one god, as are all the seven. Which in turn means that the Many Faced God would include all of the Gods of the Seven, not just the Stranger.

[Melifeather]

Or the stranger isn't a god at all. but part of one god, as are all the seven. Which in turn means that the Many Faced God would include all of the Gods of the Seven, not just the Stranger.

The many-faced god is a god of death. It encompasses all the death gods from all religions. It also seems to imply that the Others and the Great Other are also death gods and therefore part of the many-faced god.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

The many-faced god is a god of death.

Not exactly. Many religions don't have death Gods.

“A boy becomes a girl,” he murmured.

“I was always a girl. I didn’t think you saw me.”

“A man sees. A man knows.”

She remembered that she hated him. “You scared me. You’re one of them now, I should have let you burn. What are you doing here? Go away or I’ll yell for Weese.”

“A man pays his debts. A man owes three.”

“Three? “

“The Red God has his due, sweet girl, and only death may pay for life.

This girl took three that were his. This girl must give three in their places. Speak the names, and a man will do the rest.”

He wants to help me, Arya realized with a rush of hope that made her dizzy. “Take me to Riverrun, it’s not far, if we stole some horses we could-”

He laid a finger on her lips. “Three lives you shall have of me. No more, no less. Three and we are done. So a girl must ponder.”

There's no reason to think the Drowned God is a death god. Nor can the Stranger be separated from the rest of the Seven, any more than R'hollor can be split into seven gods.

It encompasses all the death gods from all religions. It also seems to imply that the Others and the Great Other are also death gods and therefore part of the many-faced god.

The Others aren't gods any more than the Children of The Forest are and its not clear the Great Other is related to The Others at all.

[Melifeather]

Not exactly. Many religions don't have death Gods.

“A boy becomes a girl,” he murmured.

“I was always a girl. I didn’t think you saw me.”

“A man sees. A man knows.”

She remembered that she hated him. “You scared me. You’re one of them now, I should have let you burn. What are you doing here? Go away or I’ll yell for Weese.”

“A man pays his debts. A man owes three.”

“Three? “

“The Red God has his due, sweet girl, and only death may pay for life.

This girl took three that were his. This girl must give three in their places. Speak the names, and a man will do the rest.”

He wants to help me, Arya realized with a rush of hope that made her dizzy. “Take me to Riverrun, it’s not far, if we stole some horses we could-”

He laid a finger on her lips. “Three lives you shall have of me. No more, no less. Three and we are done. So a girl must ponder.”

There's no reason to think the Drowned God is a death god. Nor can the Stranger be separated from the rest of the Seven, any more than R'hollor can be split into seven gods.

The Others aren't gods any more than the Children of The Forest are and its not clear the Great Other is related to The Others at all.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Many-Faced_God

and

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Faceless_Men

[Pomp & Happenstance]

While I can see where the OP theory may have merit, I personally disagree with it. Dragon's eggs didn't have "value" until Dany's eggs hatched, proving that once again dragons were in the world. There had been numerous attempts previously at hatching eggs, and situations where eggs were given as gifts (Illyrio giving Dany 3 of them).... This leads me to believe that it wouldn't be near enough compensation to hire a FM against Dany.

In addition, With the amount of time that has transpired, it seems that if the FM would have wanted Dany dead, then she would be dead. She's been raised in Braavos, scuttled around the Free Cities until she was a teenager; at any time they could have assassinated her if that was "their god's wish".

Another point of merit that may/maynot have any weight with the book POV is that in the T.V. show the FM have a servant tell Jorah Mormont that the mother of Dragons needs to be watched over and protected at this time.... Since the Co-creators know things that we do not, maybe this is their way of taking some subtlety/confusion out of the subject.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

http://awoiaf.wester.../Many-Faced_God and http://awoiaf.wester...hp/Faceless_Men

is that some how supposed to be a response?

The Seven

The Faith worships the Seven, a single deity with seven aspects or faces, each representing a different virtue. Worshipers pray to specific aspects of the Seven for help and guidance depending on their need. The aspects are:

• Father, or the Father Above, representing judgment, He is depicted as a bearded man who carries scales and is prayed to for justice.
  
• Mother, or the Mother Above, representing motherhood and nurturing, she is prayed to for fertility or compassion, she is depicted as smiling with love and embodies the concept of mercy.
  
• Warrior, representing strength in battle, he is prayed to for courage and victory. He carries a sword.
  
• Maiden, representing innocence and chastity, she is usually prayed to to protect a maiden's virtue.
  
• Smith, representing crafts and labor, he is usually prayed to when work needs to be done, for strength. he carries a hammer.
  
• Crone, representing wisdom, she carries a lantern and is prayed to for guidance.
  
• Stranger, an exception to the other aspects, the Stranger represents death and the unknown. Worshipers rarely seek favor from the Stranger, but outcasts sometimes associate themselves with this god.
  

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Faith_of_the_Seven

[Melifeather]

is that some how supposed to be a response?

The Many-Faced god and the faith of the Seven are two totally different gods/faiths. The Many-Faced god is a god of death and includes the Stranger, but not the other aspects of the Seven.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

The Many-Faced god and the faith of the Seven are two totally different gods/faiths. The Many-Faced god is a god of death and includes the Stranger, but not the other aspects of the Seven.

How can it included just the Stranger is the Seven are really one god? It cannot, no more than it can separate from R'hollor an aspect solely for death by burning. That is in contrast to, for example, the black goat of Qohor, which is a god solely related to death.

[Melifeather]

How can it included just the Stranger is the Seven are really one god? It cannot, no more than it can separate from R'hollor an aspect solely for death by burning. That is in contrast to, for example, the black goat of Qohor, which is a god solely related to death.

Are any gods actually gods? Or are they ideas created by man? In the books, the Many-Faced god is described as all of the world's death gods and that the House of Black and White honors all of them, including the Stranger of the Seven. You will not find the Father, Mother, Smith, Maiden, Crone, or Warrior in that temple.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Are any gods actually gods?

What does it mean to actually be a god? Apparently some of the gods exists in some version, the old gods a greenseers, the Others are Craster's gods, The Drowned God seems to have something to do with Patch Face's miraculous resurrection.

Or are they ideas created by man? In the books, the Many-Faced god is described as all of the world's death gods

No that is not the description in the books actually. Its described as many gods not merely gods which are exclusively those of death.

“You are safe here. This is the House of Black and White, my child. Though you are young to seek the favor of the Many-Faced God.”

“Is he like the southron god, the one with seven faces?”

“Seven? No. He has faces beyond count, little one, as many faces as there are stars in the sky. In Braavos, men worship as they will... but at the end of every road stands Him of Many Faces, waiting.

Like Rhollor the Seven Faced God would just be another of the gods included which are not exclusively death related.

and that the House of Black and White honors all of them, including the Stranger of the Seven. You will not find the Father, Mother, Smith, Maiden, Crone, or Warrior in that temple.

That is true. And that is the reason included the quote you didn't think was relevant.

“I have not worn a shoe in twenty years,” he told Brienne. “The first year, I had more blisters than I had toes, and my soles would bleed like pigs whenever I trod on a hard stone, but I prayed and the Cobbler Above turned my skin to leather.”

“There is no cobbler above,” Podrick protested.

“

There is, lad...

though you may call him by another name.

Tell me, which of the seven gods do you love best?”

“The Warrior,” said Podrick without a moment’s hesitation.

Brienne cleared her throat. “At Evenfall my father’s septon always said that there was but one god.”

“One god with seven aspects. That’s so, my lady, and you are right to point it out, but the mystery of the Seven Who Are One is not easy for simple folk to grasp, and I am nothing if not simple, so I speak of seven gods.” Meribald turned back to Podrick. “I have never known a boy who did not love the Warrior. I am old, though, and being old, I love the Smith. Without his labor, what would the Warrior defend? Every town has a smith, and every castle. They make the plows we need to plant our crops, the nails we use to build our ships, iron shoes to save the hooves of our faithful horses, the bright swords of our lords. No one could doubt the value of a smith,

and so we name one of the Seven in his honor, but we might as easily have called him the Farmer or the Fisherman, the Carpenter or the Cobbler. What he works at makes no matter. What matters is, he works.

The Father rules, the Warrior fights, the Smith labors, and together they perform all that is rightful for a man.

Just as the Smith is one aspect of the godhead,

the Cobbler is one aspect of the Smith.

It was he who heard my prayer and healed my feet.”

So the Warrior, Father and Maiden are there all the same, just as the Cobbler Above is, statue or no.