Euron paid the Faceless Men with his dragon egg

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Do the FM require a life for the life they take? If yes who was the sacrifice Euron gave?

Would the potential dragon in the egg be considered "a life"? I don't really know.

[5parts]

First of all, I must say I absolutely love this theory. I really hadn't thought about it, and on the contrary kept wondering why oh why would good ol' jaqen be usurping a master identity in Oldtown, and I had completely overlooked the sole copy of the dragon book locked away in the citadel.

So i read all 11 pages of this thread, and while Im on board with some of the things said, and dont buy into others, i still wanted to add a few things:

There's nothing in the known philosophy of the FM which indicates that they won't kill someone on their way to a main target.

In fact,they are doing them a favor-giving them the "gift".

The FM wanted the key and a false identity,that's what he got.

Actually, quite to the contrary, the Kindly Man tells Arya, in the Ugly Little Girl chapter, that she musn't kill the inssurance man's guards, for they are not butchers and only the target had been chosen to receive the gift. So killing others in order to get to the main target is NOT part of the Faceless Men comon practice, as it would seem.

However, I would also like to add that Jaqen doesn't seem to be on a typical faceless assassination here. During her time in the House of black and white, Arya learns that the way of the faceless men seems to require they kill the target without being seen, only kill the intented target, that they are no one and that they are not theives that steal. Now after meeting jaqen out of the black cells, we see hang around in Harrenhal before heading to Oldtown to take on the identity of a novice and stay in Oldtown(? I mean, he doesn't just take the key and steal the book, he seems to linger in Oldtown at least long enough to meet Sam. Its unclear how long Jaqen has been Pate and hanging in Oldtown, but it seems longer than to simply steal a book and leave). Lastly, I'm not sure where to fit this in, but the reason jaqen kill 3 people for arya was because she saved 3 lives, so there's definately more to the "code of the FM" as for who they may or may not give the gift to.

So i beleive jaqen to either be on a special mission which allows him to go around the usual rules, or he could even have severed himself from the house of black and white and have but his skills at the service of someone who wants the book, therefore simply not caring for the "rules" discusses by the kindly man.

[a free shadow]

Its unclear how long Jaqen has been Pate and hanging in Oldtown, but it seems longer than to simply steal a book and leave).

So i beleive jaqen to either be on a special mission which allows him to go around the usual rules, or...

Welcome to the forums :) And you braved all 11 pages of this thread? I bow to you.ser/m'lady.

It is likely that it is very tricky to get to the book. And it really can be only a part of his mission.

[5parts]

Welcome to the forums :) And you braved all 11 pages of this thread? I bow to you.ser/m'lady.

It is likely that it is very tricky to get to the book. And it really can be only a part of his mission.

Why thank you :) (and its Ser, btw)

I did brave 11 pages of this thread, but that's nothing after "braving" 5 books and wanting yet more!!!

A tricky book to find indeed! I just wanted to add that typically FM shouldn't would not kill anyone in the way of their target, and that based on what we have seen Jaqen do so far, it is not uncalled for to presume he's on a special mission, not the typcial faceless assassination deal, so that any rules Arya may be thought about, he might not be bound to in his current task. One way or another, I was really hoping to learn more of arya, jaqen and the faceless men in Adwd and the little bits and pieces i was served only deepned my appetite.

[CloudFlare]

Here's a crackpot theory:

Euron had a dragon egg. While he was sailing the Smoking Sea around Valyria, he threw it into the water. The egg came to rest on an underwater volcano and was transformed like Dany's eggs. The egg hatched a kraken, which was sighted some where along the line and reported to the Small Council.

We know there are dragon binding horns, and there is a kraken binding horn mentioned to belong to one of Stannis' bannermen.

[Pellaeon]

Here's a crackpot theory:

Euron had a dragon egg. While he was sailing the Smoking Sea around Valyria, he threw it into the water. The egg came to rest on an underwater volcano and was transformed like Dany's eggs. The egg hatched a kraken, which was sighted some where along the line and reported to the Small Council.

We know there are dragon binding horns, and there is a kraken binding horn mentioned to belong to one of Stannis' bannermen.

A seadragon would be more likely, The first king of the ironborn slay one

[CloudFlare]

A seadragon would be more likely, The first king of the ironborn slay one

Yep. Unless being born in the water changes a newborn dragon dramatically, a sea dragon would be more likely. There is a 'Sea Dragon Point' to the south of Bear Isle. Assuming that the names of locations are fairly old in Westeros, this is an interesting for the western side of Westeros. I'd assume that dragons would be relatively unknown before the Doom of Valyria.

Edit: There are also events in ADWD that could indicate a sea dragon rather than a kraken. Hmm...

[Elaena Targaryen]

Here is a SSM about dragons and it seems dragons were know before the doom. Also I believe Nagga's Bones are more than four (?) thousand years old but nothing in Westeros history is concrete.

December 11, 1999

Dragons in Westeros

In 'The Hedge Knight' ancient dragons are mentioned, thousands of years olds. Were there Dragons in Westeros before the Targaryens brought them, or did the Targaryens bring the skeletons of the old Dragons with them?

There were dragons all over, once.

The follow up question, which I realise may be something you keep for the books, is what happened to the Dragons out of Westeros? If I understood correctly, the Alchemists say that there were no more Dragons anywhere. Was that so?

There are no more dragons known to exist... but this is a medieval period, and large parts of the world are still terra incognita, so there are always tales of dragon sightings in far off mysterious places. The maesters tend to discount those.

[WinterWarrior]

I don't know about this one. Even if you "hatched" a dragon, as Dany is learning you have to know how to train and command one. It appears that dragons have special "people" they are born for the same way the Direwolves do. Drogon is evidently Dany's dragon....her other two are most likely meant for two other people not identified yet.

Maybe Euron paid for Balon's death with an egg.....but most likely it was Melisandre's witchcraft that killed him (the leeches in the fire). I believe the FM want to kill the dragons beause of their history. I just re-read the part in AFFC where the kindly man explains to Arya how their religon started and it is clear that many of the slaves who the first FMan gave the "gift" to were brutalized and driven into slavery by rulers using dragon fire and they were tortured by those fire worms in the ground as they worked the mines. I think Jaqen's task is to find out all he can about these new dragons and eventually he and Arya will be charged with killing them before they can destroy cities and cause great suffering again. The founding of the FM was a direct result of the need to end the suffering caused by dragons that were used by rulers to enslave people.

[The guy from the Vale]

Maybe Euron paid for Balon's death with an egg.....but most likely it was Melisandre's witchcraft that killed him (the leeches in the fire). I believe the FM want to kill the dragons beause of their history. I just re-read the part in AFFC where the kindly man explains to Arya how their religon started and it is clear that many of the slaves who the first FMan gave the "gift" to were brutalized and driven into slavery by rulers using dragon fire and they were tortured by those fire worms in the ground as they worked the mines. I think Jaqen's task is to find out all he can about these new dragons and eventually he and Arya will be charged with killing them before they can destroy cities and cause great suffering again. The founding of the FM was a direct result of the need to end the suffering caused by dragons that were used by rulers to enslave people.

Eh... You really think it was Melisandres witchcraft that killed Balon? If so, did it also kill Robb and Joffrey? I don't think so. At the same time, we have the Ghost of High Heart accurately describing the deaths of Robb and Joffrey... and she says Balon was killed by a faceless man, in a way that is very reminiscent of the way Jaqen killed Chiswyck. I'd say it is much more likely Melisandre saw all three deaths in her fire, and performed the leech ritual to impress Stannis and convince him that he needed her, but the deaths would have happened all the same.

And yes, the FM are definitely against dragons. But then, getting a dragon egg (and hence either inhibiting the hatching of one, or learning how to kill one) is very much consistent with their belief.

[Leviathan I]

That's definitely an interesting idea. The iron born are dark horses, they could potentially have a massive impact somewhere down the line.

[brut]

Not sure if this had been established throughout the tread already, but my personal take is that Euron's price is the dragon egg, and the sacrifice is his Mad Eye, which incidentally is also his sigil, sort of underlying the importance and the personal value (this goes well with the general theme of the Ironborn who have no regard for wealth). I may even go as far as to suggest that he may have "ordered" Balon shortly after banishment, and offered the sacrifice - read poked the Mad Eye - but was not able to match the price, so he promised the FM to pay with a dragon egg, which in turn led him to an extensive search all over the known world to obtain it.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Maybe Euron paid for Balon's death with an egg.....but most likely it was Melisandre's witchcraft that killed him (the leeches in the fire).

Melisandre's leeches didn't do squat. More likely, she saw the deaths in her fire and came up with a way to trick Stannis into thinking she caused them. The Ghost of High Heart's vision strongly implies that Euron hired a Faceless Man to kill Balon, and we know what happened to Joffrey and Robb.

[Mumatil]

He could very well have paid the dragon egg and something else. The guy mentioned to Arya gave two-thirds of his wealth and his daughter. The dragon's egg could be considered "wealth," and Euron may also have had to give something else.

Hes got a boatload of bastards possibly. Maybe give up one or two.

But who knows, i don't know if he cares for them at all.

[bemused]

I always had a tiny niggling doubt about the "man without a face" and Balon . I could never feel sure the crow on the shoulder was the one sending the man , as opposed to the possibility that the man was there to target the " crow ".

Especially once we met Euron, I questioned that he would pay any price ..and now , after ADWD , and the gradually emerging clues about the FM connections to the Iron Bank, I just can't see the IB being comfortable with Euron's ambitions in any way. He's like Balon on steroids.I would think ,and so might they, that if he gained the Iron throne , the havoc he would wreak on their normal business ( even just in the process of trying to gain the throne ) could be devastating. Coming from a culture that insists on paying the iron price , would they see him as a trustworthy partner in any agreement ?

If the Iron Bank can call on the FM to take action in their economic / political interests, would the FM undertake a contract with anyone who opposed the IB's interests and the interests of Braavos in general ? Not just at the level of a rich business loan ,but an actual ruler ? I have grave doubts..

With the "dwarf woman " of High Heart are we looking at the same situation we've seen with other seers visions ...that exactly when a thing will happen can be obscure ? ... Because with Euron being in control ,and knowing how he operates , it seems like the IB might have very good motive for removing him , and getting behind someone with a plan like Asha's

[Longspear Ryk]

Thats why jaqen is at the citadel.. To find out how to hatch the dragons egg

[Lord Yarwyck]

From the timeline,the FM on the bridge could be Jaqen H'gar who is now in the Citadel as Pate.

It could be, but how would the Faceless Men contact JH with the new assignment?

[Kenneth Yung]

Or maybe Euron never had a dragon egg at all and he just made that up.

Maybe Jaqen has "defected" from his order and now serves Rholler with his skills.

Maybe the Red God is the only true god in the novel, and he is doing everything in his power to harness the power of dragons in order to defend against the others and eternal winter.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

It could be, but how would the Faceless Men contact JH with the new assignment?

How is any information dispatched between the two continents?

Or maybe Euron never had a dragon egg at all and he just made that up.

Maybe Jaqen has "defected" from his order and now serves Rholler with his skills.

Maybe the Red God is the only true god in the novel, and he is doing everything in his power to harness the power of dragons in order to defend against the others and eternal winter.

I hope not. The gods are so much more interesting when they aren't real. And I wouldn't read too much into Jaqen mentioning the red god. I think it's only because they would have been killed by fire. If Arya had saved them from drowning, he'd be talking about giving the Drowned God his due, etc.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

How is any information dispatched between the two continents? I hope not. The gods are so much more interesting when they aren't real. And I wouldn't read too much into Jaqen mentioning the red god. I think it's only because they would have been killed by fire. If Arya had saved them from drowning, he'd be talking about giving the Drowned God his due, etc.

obviously the many faced god recognizes all of the other gods as merely one facets of one god, just as the 7 are aspects of 1 god. I do think the many faced god may well be the "Great Other"