Is Tommen going to die?

[Silver Spearwife]

If Tommen dies now, the funny thing is that - by their own laws - Stannis comes next (does it go to the daughter or brother first?). If Stannis is alive, which he probably isn't. And, as Tyrion pointed out at the end of that rather long tangent to Aegon about the finer points of the claimants in Westeros, "No one likes Stannis."

Myrcella needs a crown before she can die, according to the prophecy. With Quentyn dead and Arianne probably hellbent on marrying Aegon, the crown will fall to Trystane, who Myrcella is bethrothed to. They're young, but old enough to marry, and Doran is a very sick man. She may become the ruler of Dorne instead of Westeros. Then she can die.

It wasn't a short lived pregnancy. Cersei's dark haired boy, fathered by Robert, was born and had a short life. Didn't she tell Catelyn that he clung to life for a time?

I had an argument with my friend about that, regarding whether or not the child survived. Cersei told Ned in the books that the baby was basically aborted. I wonder why they changed it for the show?

But anyway, yes, Tommen is going to die. It's going to suck, because Tommen's one of the genuinely sweetest, most timid characters in the book. I can't believe I'm saying this, but there's a sort of twisted poetry to Cersei killing him that I shouldn't like but I do.

[Winter's Knight]

It wasn't a short lived pregnancy. Cersei's dark haired boy, fathered by Robert, was born and had a short life. Didn't she tell Catelyn that he clung to life for a time?

Alas, that is exclusive to the series.

[LifeRuiner]

The thought of Tommen and Mycella dying breaks my cold,shrunken heart.

Winterbreath, I don't want to derail another thread today :) but I've noticed your Loras/Aurane sig. Where is this bandwagon, I want to be on it.

On topic, reading about Tommen and Myrcella's end would be like reading about drowning kittens or Rickon's death. Valar morghulis and George's choice and all but please let it happen off the page. If it must.

[Winter's Knight]

If Tommen dies now, the funny thing is that - by their own laws - Stannis comes next (does it go to the daughter or brother first?). If Stannis is alive, which he probably isn't. And, as Tyrion pointed out at the end of that rather long tangent to Aegon about the finer points of the claimants in Westeros, "No one likes Stannis."

A daughter comes before an uncle I thought?

[The Mother of The Others]

Yes.

Totally dead.

Mwah-ha hahahahahahahha !

[Winter's Knight]

Winterbreath, I don't want to derail another thread today :) but I've noticed your Loras/Aurane sig. Where is this bandwagon, I want to be on it.

To the Romance thread!

[Sasha Steelsong]

alot of responses are certain of his eventual demise but i'm pretty confident Tommen will live through the series....kinda like egg....unlikely king,most characters even those who became later his enemies and got to interact with him speak well of him.....cersei had 4 kids thus maggy's prophesy has been dealt a big blow 1 kid has a strong chance of survival...Tommen has a knack of overcoming bad omen's presented in his path ,paranoid mum_her rule(cersei), a bully of a brother(joffrey)+his rule,scheming and power hungry uncle(tyrion),a weak cowardly member of a kingsguard(boros blount),queen of thorns and LF scheming to eliminate a king from his family,wrath of the KL mob,ned starks plan for life in exile,stannis attack of KL and when good omens fall in his laps he prospers... his mother fall from power,,joffreys death,a queen wife who likes the young lad,good pals with loras(KG),trips with his father(robert) across the kingdom he impressed so many,hoster tully,bran stark,sansa,robb,jon,the wider lannister clan members,riverlords bent the knee to tommen,he's got backing of the faith......all in all he's the 1 kid with the best chance to survive

No. That is the show not the books. In the show she actually gave birth to a child of Robert's, in the books she aborted before any child was born. In the books Cersei has only given birth to three children, and thus there is no hole in Maggy's prophecy.

Sadly I think Tommen is doomed, essentially for his mother's sins. I think it will be one of the more tragic deaths of the series (up there with his sister who also does not deserve the end that seems to be looming), but it does seem to be the fate of those who don't deserve it in this world.

ETA: As to why they changed that in the show...probably to make Cersei more sympathetic. Her having a child by Robert, getting rejected by him b/c he still loved Lyanna, and then eventually having children with Jamie paints a slightly different picture than her being so against Robert from the beginning such that she would kill her own child simply because it was his and she wanted to cuckhold him.

[Queen Cersei I]

I'd say that Cersei will almost surely kill Tommen.

As the signs of Cersei's doomed rebellion against the patriarchy erm, I mean, evil betrayal of king and country, her children will be destroyed one by one. The latter two will be due to, no doubt, her own stupidity; and I suspect that Tommen will die at her own hands. That way Cersei's self destructive "greed" (i.e., taking all the rights that men like Robert Baratheon take for granted) can be shown as wicked, deluded, and, ultimately doomed. And then the 2-3 people who might feel uncomfortable with the domestic violence situation of Jaime strangling her can forgo such doubts and laugh as the kingslayer murders her.

And then Robert's own (awesome and triumphan!) bastards can go on to inherit storms end and triumph, because the seed is strong, and the partriarchy will always triumph in the end. Always.

[Silver Spearwife]

A daughter comes before an uncle I thought?

You're probably right, but judging by what happened in the Iron Islands, I'm assuming it depends on the culture.

And then the 2-3 people who might feel uncomfortable with the domestic violence situation of Jaime strangling her can forgo such doubts and laugh as the kingslayer murders her.

All hail the Kingslaying Queenslayer!

[The Mother of The Others]

Eh, maybe Tommen throws a curveball at the prophecy by killing his mum first so he doesn't have to die when slated to by the prophecy because he's already played the valonqar card. Hell, maybe the prophecy only applies to Cercie's own consciousness, meaning that as long as SHE believes her children are all dead, the prophecy is fulfilled. That way they might not have to die. Tommen could wisen up, fake his own death to get out of mom's clutches, and flee the castle to survive.

[Fearsome Fred]

Dude, do you realize just how much potential fatness was contained in old King Bob's gene's? (He's 6 foot 5 or 6 foot 6, and, at one point, Ned describes him as "as wide as he is tall.")

Actually no. Only his girth (not his width) matched his height. So he has about a 77" waist band.

[LifeRuiner]

To the Romance thread!

:) and I was on the first page there, shipping Loras/Happiness. Reading it...

I'd say that Cersei will almost surely kill Tommen.

I will be really unhappy if we are headed towards one of those plots of a mother killing her children in a fit of madness. A la Shutter Island. This would explain well why Jaime, the valonqar, kills Cersei but must we.

Overall, I see the point that you've been making in different threads on this board. In some cases (it isn't limited to just Cersei though it's most flagrant in her case in the later books), my annoyance isn't with a character anymore but with the narrative. I wouldn't go as far as to pit Margaery against her like the books do because I'd like to believe we know better.

[Winter's Knight]

Re: Cersei killing Tommen.

I hate it when authors do an obviously manipulative thing like that-create a likeable, innocent character like a puppy or a child and use them for no other reason but to pull on your heartstrings/make you hate another character.

If Tommen does get killed by his mother, then he will have been created solely to justify Jamie killing Cersei.

That's just sloppy story telling imho and I expect better from Mr Martin.

[Dragonstone]

Tommen is a sweet, adorable boy who with good education could be the sort of gentle ruler to heal Westeros, particularly with popular, competent help behind him (Margaery and Olenne Tyrell).

His death will be brutal, protracted, and gory.

[Bastard of the White Knife]

I think Tommen and Myrcella are doomed because the Lannisters are being set up for a massive take-down. Aegon is moving to take the Stormlands and KL meanwhile the Redwyne fleet is moving South to the Mander to battle the Ironborn. If Dorne joins Aegon (sealed by a Arianne/Aegon marriage) then the Tyrells are going to have to dedicate that much more of their strength to defending the Reach. This just makes KL that much more vulnerable. This places a lot of stress on the Lannister forces which are are spent from years of fighting including major losses to Robb's forces and losing soldiers on the Blackwater. Never mind that the head of the family, Cersei, is completely bonkers. If the Tyrells focus on defending the Reach, they may just have Magarery denounce her claim to the throne (her marriage to Tommen was never consumated) and leave the Lannisters with one ally: the Freys. Of course, the Freys are fickle allies at best and they are spread out all over the place, especially in the north at Winterfell. My prediction is Tommen dies in the Donish sack of KL (sweet revenge for Elia's children, right?) and Myrcella is dispatched easily because, after all, Dorne's got her already.

[The Mother of The Others]

Maybe a mix of making it look like it's heading that way, with Cercei immolating the family and the city, but then Tommen pulls up out of that nosedive and asserts himself as his own person in time to partially avert the calamity. Like, okay that's it mom, I've gone along with a lot of your junk, but this is going too far. I'm left with no choice but to develop a backbone at this point.

[chris999]

littlefinger will have him killed (or hopefully exiled) when he takes the throne.

[Bouda]

Re: Cersei killing Tommen.

I hate it when authors do an obviously manipulative thing like that-create a likeable, innocent character like a puppy or a child and use them for no other reason but to pull on your heartstrings/make you hate another character.

If Tommen does get killed by his mother, then he will have been created solely to justify Jamie killing Cersei.

That's just sloppy story telling imho and I expect better from Mr Martin.

Dangit, this totally might happen. I think that Tommen will die-- and he probably has to to further advance the story-- but I'm going to hate whoever ends up doing it

[The Frosted King]

The Freys are not allies worth counting on.

At best they could field 4000 men, and that was at the onset of the war.

For the lannisters to hold onto power, they need a great house(ala one of the seven kingdoms) ally, and there are none who would support such a family.

The Freys aren't a power worth rating in the overall scheme of things.

And i expect Tommen to die. Mercy as well.

Why?

Because Cersei needs to rake her face to ribbons and choke on her sorrow.

[Queen Cersei I]

Not to sound horrible, but does anyone else care far less about Myrcella than Tommen? We just know so little of the girl, and from what we see, she seems so... flat. :dunno: