Three theories on Roose Bolton (The fate of Domeric, Last day in Harrenhal, Lady Dustin)

[HouseGreyjoy]

Yay first post! :wideeyed:

Anyway I don't think Roose would have killed Domeric, I would more believe Ramasy but its not really hes style.....maybe Ramasy made one of his Bastard Boys slip something in his half-brother's drink and then when he went the maester, the maester started slipping poison into Domeric's treatment (Ramasy's doing of course) and then because Roose seems to be in control of all the people Ramasy thinks he controls, the maester told him of this so maybe thats why he thinks Ramasy did it? Might be true or might just be crackpot I don't know...... :dunno: Ramasy's is insane so anything is possible

Anyway, hope you liked my 2 cents and I don't know if somebody's already said something similar to this

[Lady of Long Lake]

Welcome to the forums HouseGreyjoy!

[Zupoleon]

As with many others, I just don't see what Roose's motive would be...

[Efilnikufesin]

Here's a bit of crackpottery, Suppose the original Reek, was Domeric. Punished for disobedience. Maybe the Reek game is not Ramsey's at all, but Roose's.

[Ciazio]

Here's a bit of crackpottery, Suppose the original Reek, was Domeric. Punished for disobedience. Maybe the Reek game is not Ramsey's at all, but Roose's.

This is a theory debated in the first pages of this thread and discarded after some reasoning. I can't remember exactly why, check it!

[Efilnikufesin]

This is a theory debated in the first pages of this thread and discarded after some reasoning. I can't remember exactly why, check it!

Hadn't seen it mentioned, must be in the middle somewhere when i started skimming, will check it out. Thanks.

[Le Rouge]

Kudos to everyone trying to bring out connections between Craster/Others/Harrenhall/Boltons/ecc, Roose is my second favorite character (litterally fighting against the first one: Stannis :cool4: ).

I spent 4 days reading all the stuffs wrote here and I do agree with everything Ser Endrew Tarth says. I'd like to add that is really possible that Ramsay's mother was a wildling: the cultural similarities with Craster's story are quite evidents.

I too want to throw my two cents in the cracked pot, going - perhaps - too far, but there is something that stroke me while reading your posts and I come to a possible connection between Roose, Harrenhall and Qyburn.

I'll start from what we know/can assume from the books:

• Roose isn't scared by his lack of friends in the North and doesn't give a fig about all the enemies he has near him.
  
• Harrenhall is considered cursed, and all the 7 noble families that dwelled here have died out. Moreover, we know that many of the Whent's women were steriles with the notable exception of Lady Minisa, who went to live in Riverrun and still had some miscarriages/stillborn children.
  
• Qyburn might have found something in Harrenhall that gave him the power to resurrect Gregor (UnGregor).
  

And now I'll try to reunite all the three points in one theory. We, the readers, have knowledge of something that:

• Is an energy source which, in a world of magic, could make the deads walking.
  
• In the long run can cause death and bareness of the people living nearby.
  
• Can give a single person the power above many, when turned in a weapon.
  

You can see where I'm going, right? Yes, "uranium" and "atomic energy".

Add to these clues the fact that the distruction of Hardhome and the Doom of Valyria can resemble an atomic explosion (with the corollary of "monsters" dwelling the lands nearby even hundred of years later) and we can infer that there is some sort of "atomic magic" going around in the world of ASOIAF.

Roose knows that there are only two ways to rule the North: by love and by fear. He also knows that no one is going to love him and he might have been working on a "way" to rule by fear.

Is he preparing a "nuclear bomb" in the Dreadfort's dungeons? Is he going to wipe out... say... White Harbor? :devil:

I know it can be seen as a dumb theory but, please, help me and say I'm not crazy... :blushing:

ETA: Ramsay might become the unaware pawn that brings the "bomb" on the objective. Think about it, in a single move Roose could: kill the man who killed his heir, wipe out his most powerful enemy and force every other man in the North to bend the knee. Epic win.

There is an other person who was at Harrenhall and in the dungeons of Kings Landing: Jaqen H'ghar. Additionally, he also was/is in Oldtown. Perhaps we will see him again in Winterfell... (Hooded Man?) But why?

I think the presence of Jaqen in KL, Harrenhall and Oldtown, and the fact that the Faceless Man were somewhat involved in the Doom of Valyria support the idea that there is some "nuclear" power present in Westeros.

[Nucky Thompson]

Regarding the Battle of Winterfell, it really seems that old Roose has had it all thought out - it has already been implied in his conversations with Ramsey that he at least suspects that the two Stark boys, one of which just happens to be the heir apparent to the King of the North, are not quite dead yet. Now, what is his modus operandi in this case? He can't hope to maintain his dominance over the North if Rickon shows up as his most astute supporters (Ryswell, Dustin) are not nearly enough in numbers and will be overpowered quickly. That's why Stannis' army approaching Winterfell is somewhat of a jackpot for him - he sends the Freys and the Manderlys out on a sortie against Stannis. This accomplishes several things: keeps Stannis occupied with the two hosts attacking him, keeps the Freys occupied with Stannis and with Manderly and keeps the Manderlys thinking how to butcher the Freys. Now he can safely wait some time and make a bee line to the Dreadfort under the pretense that he will raise another host there or something. If Roose hadn't sent out the sortie, the Freys would prevent him from going home since it would mean certain death for them; the Manderlys would do some mess in any case and Stannis could intercept him outside the walls. Recall that back in Harrenhall when the Freys warned Roose that Tywin could lay siege to the castle, he replied "I don't mean to be besieged here." or something along those lines. Why would he want to be pushed in a strategic corner and remain besieged in Winterfell where there is no hope of a relief force coming to his aid? Sure, it is a stronghold and all that, but his personal situation would improve quite much if he left all the squabbling lords sort it out without a Stark while he waits out the winter safely in the Dreadfort. This view can be reinforced by two things - he doesn't really care about Ramsey and wouldn't mind him getting annihilated by Stannis all the while probably being able to negotiate his way into keeping his Wardenship until Rickon comes of age since he didn't actually raise any arms against the rightful king (Stannis that is) and even helped him out by deposing the rebel and separatist Robb Stark. Ramsey being burned or something would appease Stannis and his sense of justice while Roose hardly loses any ground.

[alienarea]

Regarding the Battle of Winterfell, it really seems that old Roose has had it all thought out - it has already been implied in his conversations with Ramsey that he at least suspects that the two Stark boys, one of which just happens to be the heir apparent to the King of the North, are not quite dead yet. Now, what is his modus operandi in this case? He can't hope to maintain his dominance over the North if Rickon shows up as his most astute supporters (Ryswell, Dustin) are not nearly enough in numbers and will be overpowered quickly. That's why Stannis' army approaching Winterfell is somewhat of a jackpot for him - he sends the Freys and the Manderlys out on a sortie against Stannis. This accomplishes several things: keeps Stannis occupied with the two hosts attacking him, keeps the Freys occupied with Stannis and with Manderly and keeps the Manderlys thinking how to butcher the Freys. Now he can safely wait some time and make a bee line to the Dreadfort under the pretense that he will raise another host there or something. If Roose hadn't sent out the sortie, the Freys would prevent him from going home since it would mean certain death for them; the Manderlys would do some mess in any case and Stannis could intercept him outside the walls. Recall that back in Harrenhall when the Freys warned Roose that Tywin could lay siege to the castle, he replied "I don't mean to be besieged here." or something along those lines. Why would he want to be pushed in a strategic corner and remain besieged in WInterfell where there is no hope of a relief force coming to his aid? Sure, it is a stronghold and all that, but his personal situation would improve quite much if he left all the squabbling lords sort it out without a Stark while he waits out the winter safely in the Dreadfort. This view can be reinforced by two things - he doesn't really care about Ramsey and wouldn't mind him getting annihilated by Stannis all the while probably being able to negotiate his way into keeping his Wardenship until Rickon comes of age since he didn't actually raise any arms against the rightful king (Stannis that is) and even helped him out by deposing the rebel and separatist Robb Stark. Ramsey being burned or something would appease Stannis and his sense of justice while Roose hardly loses any ground.

Yes. And if Roose already went for the Dreadfort, it could explain the Pink Letter (it was speculated that Roose wouldn't allow Ramsay to send this - if Roose already left and took the wax with him it all makes sense)

[TheNorthernWarrior]

I agree, I also think Roose is just going to walk away. No one in the North will be strong enough for a while to besiege him at the Dreadfort any time soon (didn't it take the Starks 3 years last time, at presumably full strength?) When Roose betrayed Robb I don't think he knew that Bran and Rickon were alive. Now that he has returned North and learned the truth, he knows he's screwed and his initial plans are for naught. His best option is to quietly sneak home and make some heirs to ensure his family lives on.

Also, from a story telling standpoint I see Roose and Ramsay separating. As a reader we want to see revenge against these two and I don't see that happening at the same time. I think Roose will abandon Ramsay and we will get the sweet revenge on him, but for Roose that will come much later. Also this buys time for Roose to go home and maybe have something to do with the Others.

[Unholly Septon]

Lord Bolton III: Lady Dustin

Lady Dustin is the sister-in-law of Roose Bolton. Consequently she knows him well. I think she knows even better than she ought to. When we first meet her, Roose returns from a short round trip from Barrow Hall to Barrowton, bringing back Theon that he had taken from Ramsay (Ramsay stayed in Barrowton since he is persona non grata in Barrowhall). She has a curious way to address Roose when he comes to see her:

Note the lack of politeness. No "My Lord", not even "Lord Bolton". Roose Bolton is a great Lord, and the Warden of the North. Lady Dustin should have addressed her liege lord properly.

The significance of this has just been highlighted a few page before. Here is Ramsay to Roose about the other Northern Lords

and there is the little lecture Roose gave Theon.

Hence we know Roose pays attention to the manner of speech of other people and to the way he is spoken to. Similarly, in Harrenhal, he tells Arya:

I see two explanations for this dialogue: either Lady Dustin and Roose are so intimate that they do not address formally to each other, like husband and wife do (yes, possibly lovers or former lovers) or Lady Dustin is so dominant in their association that she can talk down to him. Here is the rest of the dialogue, which seems to confirm this proximity (note that Roose speaks properly).

We never learn why Barbrey wanted to see Theon at that point. It seems clear that Roose and Barbrey have plotted something that involves him. I guess it is the role of "closest male relative of Arya Stark" that Theon will play for the marriage. But does it justify presenting Theon specifically to Lady Dustin?

I have no strong opinion yet on whether Lady Dustin is really an ally of Roose. It's often assumed that she is not, because of Domeric's death. I wouldn't be surprised if Roose told her that his former maester is responsible for the death, which would go well along the professed hate of Lady Dustin for the maesters. We hear Lady Dustin express displeasure at the way Ramsay treats "Arya" but she never blames Ramsay for the death of Domeric.

Note: Ramsay's mother, the lady of the Weepwater, looks alike Lady Dustin (both are tall and elegant unlike Fat Walda). But Ramsay himself does not look like her or his father (except for the eyes). That's a second lady who seems to have some power over Roose.

Nice theories there about Roose,but as far as I am concerned there is a little problem here-In the TV serries his role and words have been basically removed and presented by Tywin's.Now I know that TV and books are not the same but GRRM is a member of the scriptwritters and he wouldn't have removed something which is important for the continue of the story.Roose was just presented in the second season and he never met Arya and never went to Harrenhall,so it doesn't seem that important from a point of view.Ofcourse they can make him go at the third season under Robb's command but that seems unlikelly to happen since Robb just broke the deal with the Freys and will surelly retreat to Riverun(we know Cat's brother and uncle will be in the 3rd season)so why sending Roose and many of his soldiers so far away when he needs them.All I'm trying to say is that maybe Roose has some dark serets but if they are not dark enough to be presented in the serries,then they may not be that important.Ofcourse they may be presented in a different way or with a different order,something which happens on TV,in which case I am totally wrong.

[TomWillcox]

Now I know that TV and books are not the same but GRRM is a member of the scriptwritters and he wouldn't have removed something which is important for the continue of the story.

By that logic, and I'm not saying it is necessarily flawed, then as the evidence for Jon's birth was not in Series 1, Martin doesn't consider it important enough to reveal, or at least not key. It could just be a thing for the readers to know the dramatic irony that Jon, the rightful king, forswore any birthright yet still ended up being in the place and performing the role that the true king should be.

[OberynBlackfyre]

Roose Bolton being practiced in the black arts would make a lot of sense, since there is really some things that cannot be explained. I think his relationship with the women is inconsequential but the leeches are something linked to Melisandre that should not be overlooked. Also, his interest with Theon could be that after Balon died, Theon should have been the rightful king by rights of bloodline. And one thing that Melisandre and others have professed is that there is power in the blood of kings so maybe Roose thinks that Theon would be useful is some sort of oncoming ritual. Also, he seems to never really be without some sort of light, having candles lit, fires burning, etc. Sorcery is a given with Roose Bolton, but sorcery in the service of who or what?

[OberynBlackfyre]

Nice theories there about Roose,but as far as I am concerned there is a little problem here-In the TV serries his role and words have been basically removed and presented by Tywin's.Now I know that TV and books are not the same but GRRM is a member of the scriptwritters and he wouldn't have removed something which is important for the continue of the story.Roose was just presented in the second season and he never met Arya and never went to Harrenhall,so it doesn't seem that important from a point of view.Ofcourse they can make him go at the third season under Robb's command but that seems unlikelly to happen since Robb just broke the deal with the Freys and will surelly retreat to Riverun(we know Cat's brother and uncle will be in the 3rd season)so why sending Roose and many of his soldiers so far away when he needs them.All I'm trying to say is that maybe Roose has some dark serets but if they are not dark enough to be presented in the serries,then they may not be that important.Ofcourse they may be presented in a different way or with a different order,something which happens on TV,in which case I am totally wrong.

Roose may have a story that may not be pivotal to the story thread that is going on in the show, only because the show is made for television and you don't get nearly as much character depth, or plot as the books provide only because they are on time constraints. If Roose does become pivotal in the story, they can easily introduce him as a main character at the Red Wedding as he played a major part in killing Robb.

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

Roose Bolton being practiced in the black arts would make a lot of sense, since there is really some things that cannot be explained. I think his relationship with the women is inconsequential but the leeches are something linked to Melisandre that should not be overlooked. Also, his interest with Theon could be that after Balon died, Theon should have been the rightful king by rights of bloodline. And one thing that Melisandre and others have professed is that there is power in the blood of kings so maybe Roose thinks that Theon would be useful is some sort of oncoming ritual. Also, he seems to never really be without some sort of light, having candles lit, fires burning, etc. Sorcery is a given with Roose Bolton, but sorcery in the service of who or what?

I wouldn't be suprised if roose was involved with magic. But I don't think its at all similar to mel. The leeches he stated are to remove the bad blood. Hence he says ramsay's blood would poison even leeches. I think its interesting though that bolton's use to flay the starks. The starks are skin changers. Bolton's remove the skin changers skin and then they would wear them. I don't know what any importance there could be. But it could mean something. I just don't see him as a fire worshipper though he seems much more icy.

[Ser Endrew Tarth]

Regarding the Battle of Winterfell, it really seems that old Roose has had it all thought out - it has already been implied in his conversations with Ramsey that he at least suspects that the two Stark boys, one of which just happens to be the heir apparent to the King of the North, are not quite dead yet. Now, what is his modus operandi in this case?

SNIP...

Sure, it is a stronghold and all that, but his personal situation would improve quite much if he left all the squabbling lords sort it out without a Stark while he waits out the winter safely in the Dreadfort. This view can be reinforced by two things - he doesn't really care about Ramsey and wouldn't mind him getting annihilated by Stannis all the while probably being able to negotiate his way into keeping his Wardenship until Rickon comes of age since he didn't actually raise any arms against the rightful king (Stannis that is) and even helped him out by deposing the rebel and separatist Robb Stark. Ramsey being burned or something would appease Stannis and his sense of justice while Roose hardly loses any ground.

Damn good point and probably not discussed enough in "pink letter" threads. If Roose bugs out during some of the confusion it goes a long way to explaining the letter. We see time and time again that he is cautious and intelligent. Theon notes that when the fight breaks out between Frey and Manderly that there is fear in Lord Bolton's eyes... fear.

[ThePrinceOfSunspear]

I don't see the motive for any of this.

Its a nice try but I think it ultimately has no basis....

[OberynBlackfyre]

I wouldn't be suprised if roose was involved with magic. But I don't think its at all similar to mel. The leeches he stated are to remove the bad blood. Hence he says ramsay's blood would poison even leeches. I think its interesting though that bolton's use to flay the starks. The starks are skin changers. Bolton's remove the skin changers skin and then they would wear them. I don't know what any importance there could be. But it could mean something. I just don't see him as a fire worshipper though he seems much more icy.

That is interesting though the Boltons I think made it clear that they will skin anything that displeases them. I do agree however with him being more "icy" from his eyes even to his demeanor. Truly, I think he is a survivalist mixed with an opportunist which creates one really dangerous person. His shield is control though. He manipulates and controls those around him, and when that control is lost be kind of loses it.

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

That is interesting though the Boltons I think made it clear that they will skin anything that displeases them. I do agree however with him being more "icy" from his eyes even to his demeanor. Truly, I think he is a survivalist mixed with an opportunist which creates one really dangerous person. His shield is control though. He manipulates and controls those around him, and when that control is lost be kind of loses it.

Yeah they will flay any enemy or person they think deserves it. But the whole wearing the skin of starks I find interesting. We don't know if they would wear just anybody's skin. Roose is a very intriguing character in himself though. He is very much an opportunist and a very dangerous person to have as an enemy. Control is something he desires and manipulates, always using the given situation to his advantage. Like the freys and manderlays fighting he sends them to battle stannis. He has an icy demeanour and it seems like his temper is ice cold rather than red hot. Similar to lord tywin. But it does shock me he'd rather ramsay follow him as lord of the dreadfort rather than a true born. Ramsay can be clever but he is more foolish with a red hot temper. He says a child lord is the downfall of many houses. But you'd think he would see ramsay is the downfall to his. Maybe he just doesn't care. He gets enjoyment from ramsay's crazed antics and lady dustin even says men are his play things and he likes to move the pieces bend people to his will that may otherwise never know they are serving his purpose. Similar to robb and catelyn with the red wedding.

[Ciazio]

GRRM is a member of the scriptwritters and he wouldn't have removed something which is important for the continue of the story

GRRM has no voice in chapter. D&D do what they want and ask GRRM something, sometimes. They are not bound to his choices and can refuse his suggestions, like they did with Xaro and Pyat Pree.

I don't see the motive for any of this.

Its a nice try but I think it ultimately has no basis....

Mind to explain...?