The gift chapter and a clue regarding "Aegon/Young Griff"

[LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse]

Well Stannis did hire sellswords we are told in ACOK. If he did, his first choice would be the Golden Company as he said in the gift chapter.

If so, why did they turn him down? By the same reason he fears they will turn him down now, the Golden Company was under contract with Myr at that time.

Stannis was in the same position as Aegon to to return their lands and titles. To go back home...

So the idea that the Golden Company would only break a contract for the promise of going back home, is not trully right. Otherwise they would have joined Stannis.

Our word is as good as gold,.. Gold is as valuable as their Word.. They won´t break a contract for gold as the rest of the Sellswords would do when offered a better deal..

behind the gold the bittersteel... Bittersteel is more important than Gold. Therefore bittersteel is more important than their word. They would only break a contract for Bittersteel.. Bittersteel started the company with a foundational mission, to put a Blackfyre n the Iron Throne. If They broke Myrs contract, it must be to carry out their foundational mission.

[YouKnowNothingJonSnow]

Is the "mummer's dragon" necessarily an imposter, or could it be a legitimate Targaryen whom higher powers - i.e. Varys - have been manipulating?

Well, Vary's was a mummer, was he not?

[TheRatCook]

Varys may very well have factored in the Others. When he tells Tyrion of how he was cut he says he heard a voice but never tells Tyrion what the voice said. I believe that information is vital and all of his work revolves around whatever the voice may have said. For all we know it could have pertained to the prophecy Rheagar later reads in a book. And I think I may know a spider that recommended said book to the young Prince.

Varys may very well have factored in the Others. When he tells Tyrion of how he was cut he says he heard a voice but never tells Tyrion what the voice said. I believe that information is vital and all of his work revolves around whatever the voice may have said. For all we know it could have pertained to the prophecy Rheagar later reads in a book. And I think I may know a spider that recommended said book to the young Prince.

Oh that's really interesting. I need to re-read that portion.

[Dustdevil]

Slightly OT, but why does everyone think that Aegon will not take the IT? George said that there will be a second Dance of Dragons, the most likely one between Dany and Aegon, since they both want to rule the 7 kingdoms. I find it much more likely that Aegon takes the IT, Cersei fails in her wildfire plot and is killed by Jaime, and Aegon or one of the Sand Snakes kills both Tommen and Myrcella as an act of revenge on the Lannisters. They take the city, and then Dany arrives and challenges Aegon.

PS: Also with all the Lannisters but Tyrion dead by that point, this could strengthen his claim on Casterly Rock, although he still has the mark of a kinslayer, but if dany wins with his help, who in the realm cares?

[TheRatCook]

I hope he's legit. Seems pointless to bring in someone so late only to have him be a non-factor.

Well, thats the thing...if he is a Blackfyre, and not a Targ, he is still "legit," to some extent. Robert's rebellion muddied the succession waters. As a Blackfyre, his claim is probably as good or better than Robert's was.

[Demon Monkey]

Aegon may well be a dragon but he is not Rhaegar's son, my bet would be that he is a descendant of the female Blackfyre line and Aerion Brightflame's line.

[Apollo]

I've got a couple things to say, firstly is that is there any facts about what Varys was up to during the Sack of KL by the Lannisters?

Also, could Aegon be descended from another Targ bastard, perhaps Bittersteel himself, the founder of the Golden Company? That would certainly explain why the Golden Company broke their contract.

Haha just reading that I feel a bit ridiculous..

[Storm's Arrival]

The more I think of it...

Dark Flame = Black Fyre. Not Morqorro as we are all lead to believe.

And maybe the cloth dragon is another? That prophecy as it is, is too straight forward and simple.

[Slayer of Lies]

Slightly OT, but why does everyone think that Aegon will not take the IT?

I’m not sure “everyone” agrees on anything on these forums.

I, for one, believe fAegon will take the throne temporarily, in that the “cheering crowd” in the “cloth dragon” vision (which would affirm fAegon to be a false Targaryen) is representative of the people of KL cheering in support of a new regime.

If not, and if fAegon doesn’t take KL, then who is the “cloth dragon,” how and why, and in which city is the cheering crowd? Is there any singly foreshadowing candidate who makes more sense than fAegon, and is there time to pull that off effectively with only two books to go? I think not, and I think that many of the suggestions that stray too far outside of that box are the result of readers having too much time to kill in between books.

As I see it, in any scenario where fAegon is not the “cloth dragon,” he would still be a non-POV character whose identity/survival we’ve been led to question throughout ASOIAF, and any role he might play in the endgame of “saving Westeros” would serve to undermine the importance of the surviving POVs that date back to AGOT (aka: 1996, on the post-publication side of the fence).

But he makes a fine temporary and unwitting usurper, and his reveal as a Blackfyre (or an otherwise false dragon) would tie up the “cloth dragon” vision quite neatly, as well as shake things up in a rather dynamic way as we approach the finish line.

[Uldra I]

There was also that thing how the black dragon sign had been lost for a while (the targs/blackfires being displaced) then it washed up on shore one day covered in rust (black hiding under red, blackfyre posing as a targ).

[Nevermind]

Wonderful observation! GRRM is so sly when he gives us clues. :lol:

[Uldra I]

I'm not sure about the lineage, but is the claim of the Blackfyres really not legitimate? The D&E story Sworn Swords gave me the impression, that one claim was as good as the other. Or is it just that they lost? I mean, they are Tagerians, too.

I think it's a good question. Since the Targs conquered Westeros and created the monarchy by force, then when Robert's Rebellion turned the kingdom over to the Baratheons by force. It just seems to me that what has happened to date is that if you could take the throne, it's yours. That would make Aegon's claim just as valid as Dany's so long as he can win it and hold on to it.

[Slayer of Lies]

Well, thats the thing...if he is a Blackfyre, and not a Targ, he is still "legit," to some extent. Robert's rebellion muddied the succession waters. As a Blackfyre, his claim is probably as good or better than Robert's was.

Since the Targs conquered Westeros and created the monarchy by force, then when Robert's Rebellion turned the kingdom over to the Baratheons by force. It just seems to me that what has happened to date is that if you could take the throne, it's yours. That would make Aegon's claim just as valid as Dany's so long as he can win it and hold on to it.

I’d suggest as well that he’s legit by general Westerosi standards (as a Blackfyre), in that he’d be accepted by the people as their new king (especially compared against the disintegrated Baratheon regime).

But I can’t believe he’d still be installed as king when the epilogue of ADOS hits.

fAegon just makes a good interim ruler, in that Cersei ought to be completely robbed of power (if not also dead) by the time TWOW is complete, and the threat fAegon presents to Dany as a ruler backed by the people of KL/Westeros presents a “grittier” obstacle to Dany’s earlier plan of taking the throne from Robert, who murdered her brother and usurped the throne from her father.

In effect, as someone Dany (and everyone else in Westeros) will initially be led to believe is Dany’s “no longer dead” nephew, a sort of trope would be put into play where the reader knows Dany shouldn’t be so trusting of fAegon, only to realize later that fAegon is actually the cloth/mummer’s dragon.

While fAegon is someone Dany trusts (and/or thinks she knows), however, she might perceive herself to become the very usurper she viewed Robert as if she attempts to supplant him. And it wouldn’t be until the exposition of fAegon’s origins that Dany connects the dots to the "cloth dragon" vision, and realizes she’s made a mistake.

[Uldra I]

Whether you think Aegon/fAegon has as much right to the IT or not, this is an interesting post about the line of succession by someone who did his research. link

[Talking Hodor]

why do so many people dislike aegon anyways?

Not me. I like him way better than Pedantic Stannis, the closet atheist/ hypocritical religious extremist / p-whipped Mel worshipper / burner of people and weirwoods. I even think Aegon is real. Why else would Jon Connington, former hand of the king, who clearly knew what baby Aegon actually looked like, not have cried bullshit long ago at Illyrio and Varys when they presented the baby to him for safekeeping?

[Mrmanakan]

why do so many people dislike aegon anyways?

He's an arrogant pup. He's a fool and acts like a spoiled brat. I'm not a hundred percent sold he'd absolutely fake. We'll see. He is dumb though joncon raised him like his son and now he doesnt listen. Psst his arrogance is going to get him killed prolly before dany even gets into the picture his first chapter will be his last prolly going into battle in epilogue in winds leading the attack and getting killed right after duck his joke kingsguard gets killed trying but failing miserably to protect him (I do like duck though)

All the people around Aegon are great it's just he's a fool. I like Lenore with her lovely teats joncon had some great chapters. Even the GC besides the commander were cool.

I think it's more poetic if he is rhaegars son but dies shortly after getting the throne. But we'll see

And he is the mummers dragon because varys throws his support at him if that's all that means or it means he's fake I cannot say. I think him dying before the real fight begins with a few easy victorys and he thinks he's invincible is kinda who he is. Like a less harsh viserys with an army.

Ohhh or better yet he is rhaegars son and right when he gets the throne he gets grayscale and during his short rein he is slowly chopping pieces off his own body to try to stop it but can't and does. Dark and evil mwahahsha! Either way he's dead and doomed to hell sooner than later mark my words

[Duckface]

Jon Connington was a leader of GC, maybe there is no sword and i personally think nobody in GC gives a clue that Aegons is fake. I mean GC fights not to fulfill their founders (Daemon Blackfyre) dream, but to return home where they belong and get pardoned by their new king.

[theseven]

I think Aegon is a Targ, but not what people think.

He could be Rhaegar's son with Ashara Dayne. (and she could be the septa that educated him)

[Daenor]

As others have mentioned before there's a chance that Aegon was created at a later point and with the first books already published.This could lead to some plotholes.For example we saw Varys and Illirio talking at the Red Keep and we got the impression that everything they're doing is for the favour of Dany.Even if she was simply meant as an ally who would help Aegon's claim still this isn't the best plan.Cause what would had happened if Dany had conquered Westeros with her Dothraki horde and than Aegon appears?He's the legitimate heir to the throne but so what?How did Aegon the Conqueror got his throne?By blood and fire.So if Dany and her husband had done all the dirty work they could simply refuse to give the throne to her young nephew.Concerning this matter Tyrion made some very good points when he manipulated Grif to sail to Westeros.Things also got more complicated after Visaerys' death and the birth of the dragons.

Also why did they send Sir Barristan to Dany instead of Aegon?The time where they would have presented him was close anyway so what better than to send him the greatest knight (and a loyal and honorable one in any case) of the realm as a gift?This is actually a fact that supports the idea that Aegon was a later addition.When Barristan finds Dany she was the only available Targ in Martin's saga.

Another issue would arose if Aegon is proven to be a Blackfyre.It wouldn't seem rather stupid for Varys and Illyrio supporting a Red and a Black Dragon at the same time.I just hope Martin will rush a bit and we can have some of our answers in a short time.

In any case by the time the series end they will number around 8000 pages.This means that it would be impossible not to have some mistakes,facts that don't make sense or plotholes.

[Uldra I]

I think Aegon is a Targ, but not what people think.

He could be Rhaegar's son with Ashara Dayne. (and she could be the septa that educated him)

This is an intriguing idea. What are your thoughts about how that could be the case? Can you flesh out your idea a little more?

ps Welcome to the forums! :)

[WhitewolfStark]

I am more convinced than ever that Aegon is the "Cloth Dragon". He is almost absolutely a decendent of Daeomon Blackfyre. This does it for me, however as we have seen. Right, through blood means nothing, whether you are Aegon the Conqueror, Robert with his hammer or Lannisters with their gold and treachery. Might, along with good health will win and hold the Iron throne every time.

It's a throne forged by conquerors. It makes sense that keeping it involves being conquerors.