Odds of Jaime and Brienne Ending Up Together

[Booknerd2]

It makes her look and feel the biggest fool imaginable for thinking it was Sansa or Margaery or someone else and having acted on her assumptions which got her nowhere and caused even bigger problems by making new enemies and other issues.

And all of her own doing..which is hard for anybody to take in.

As if the blow of losing all of Jaime...mind, heart, and body wouldn't be enough, Cersei hates being wrong and thinks she is so smart, slick, and one step ahead.

This would be a dropkick to her soul and psyche.

And I have to give props to Jolene who suggested Brienne on a thread I read recently, because I never thought of it or saw if before.

I was shocked when I saw it, let it marinate in my brain, and then saw, hey, it would be a twist , yet it could fit from how the prophecy is sort of worded and from what we know regarding Cersei and Jaime, and Jaime and Brienne, and how things have been going. And in AFFC really there were so many POVs of those three two/

[Le Cygne]

This could be referring to Cersei losing Jaime's love, commitment, aiding her causes as he used to, to Brienne, who has the misfortune of the nickname the Beauty, but also she really is a character that is honorable, noble, and beautiful on the inside.

Really like this. The more I think of it, the better it gets. It's pretty awesome, on a number of levels.

[Jolene Brown]

I definitely consider Brienne as the prophecied "younger, more beautiful" as more a possibility than a likelihood, but also note that when Jaime's disappearance is brought up by Kevan in ADWD, and he says he may have gone off with the Evenstar's daughter, Brienne of Tarth, Cercei immediately focuses on her physical appearance, thinking something about how there's no way he would have abandoned her for that "ugly, shambling thing." It's like she doesn't get that there is any other potential source of value or worth in a woman. It would be her own "sharp lesson," to find that this is very much not the case.

Also interesting in that I think it unlikely from what was previously presented that Cercei would actually know what Brienne looks like (never had contact with her in King's Landing and Brienne doesn't seem to have spent much time outside of Tarth prior to Renly calling his banners, Jaime doesn't seem to have any prior familiarity with her in ACOK/ASOS) so Martin sort of shoved that line in despite it's being unnatural, perhaps indicating that it is important enough to do so? i.e. important to emphasize that Cercei perceives Brienne as ugly?

[Booknerd2]

Oh, man...that's good.

Totally forget Cersei picking her apart.

And she may not be a "queen" but she is her father's only heir, I think.

[Lyanna Stark]

Also interesting in that I think it unlikely from what was previously presented that Cercei would actually know what Brienne looks like

Cersei comments in ADWD that Jaime would never leave her for someone like Brienne, so she does know how Brienne looks. But I do like the Brienne as the younger more beautiful one though. :) Mostly because it would be so unexpected. Does this mean Brienne adopts Tommen and Myrcella as well? /crackpot land

[Jolene Brown]

Cersei comments in ADWD that Jaime would never leave her for someone like Brienne, so she does know how Brienne looks. But I do like the Brienne as the younger more beautiful one though. :) Mostly because it would be so unexpected. Does this mean Brienne adopts Tommen and Myrcella as well? /crackpot land

Right, she says it, but I don't see how she could actually know. I think it's a bit of a mistake on GRRM's part.

[Booknerd2]

This would be the most vengeful shock-inducing, no hope left, scenario for Cersei.

It would kill her. I'm not sure she'd even be able to keep it together to move on or desire to anymore. Jaime is her rock, that she takes so much advantage of because she thinks she is the tough one, like she tells Robert and Jaime and Tyrion.

She loses the rock, which it certainly looks like she is, forget it.

That would be nice. Poor Myrcella and Tommen don't deserve to die, but...this is Martin's world.

[Le Cygne]

It's like she doesn't get that there is any other potential source of value or worth in a woman.

That's true and she doesn't value him for more than his looks, either. His value was that she could use him to extend her reach. Once he lost that, he was pretty much just a big lunkhead getting in the way, so she sent him away. The stump remarks were just cruel.

[Jolene Brown]

That's true and she doesn't value him for more than his looks, either. His value was that she could use him to extend her reach. Once he lost that, he was pretty much just a big lunkhead getting in the way, so she sent him away. The stump remarks were just cruel.

Quite a contrast there too, between her and Brienne, who despite recently having endured Jaime's pretty unappealing behavior (I love him, but he was a real ass to her for the first leg of their trip), nonetheless essentially saved his life by reminding him that he should live, if only to seek revenge, cared for him physically (cleaning him when he vomited/soiled himself) on the trip and then again in the baths at Harrenhall, where he specifically notes her gentleness. Then, in A Feast for Crows, we see how much it bothers her even to overhear anyone saying something negative about Jaime. She leaves a common room twice, I think, for that reason, first when they are talking about his maiming and later when they are talking about him as an Oathbreaker unfit to rule on Joffrey's behalf.

[Le Cygne]

Right, she says it, but I don't see how she could actually know. I think it's a bit of a mistake on GRRM's part.

I just figured she'd seen her around, through Robert and thus Renly and his turf and knowing Brienne's father, etc.

Just quoting for us to see:

Her.. The queen remembered the Maid of Tarth, a huge, ugly, shambling thing who dressed in man's mail. Jaime would never abandon me for such a creature. My raven never reached him, elsewise he would have come.

[Lyanna Stark]

Then, in A Feast for Crows, we see how much it bothers her even to overhear anyone saying something negative about Jaime. She leaves a common room twice, I think, for that reason, first when they are talking about his maiming and later when they are talking about him as an Oathbreaker unfit to rule on Joffrey's behalf.

Yes, they are both the same. Both Brienne and Jaime get really upset with the slagging off of the other, which is really quite cute. Jaime punching Red Ronnet was an amazing scene. :)

[Elba the Intoner]

I assumed Cersei had just seen Brienne around when Brienne returned with Jaime to KL. Was Brienne kept in the tower that whole time? If so then Cersei might not have seen her but I figured she had.

[Kittykatknits]

I just figured she'd seen her around, through Robert and thus Renly and his turf and knowing Brienne's father, etc.

Just quoting for us to see:

I love this quote. After all, Cersei is never wrong, right? I took it as a sign that he would definitely leave her for Brienne.

[Jolene Brown]

I assumed Cersei had just seen Brienne around when Brienne returned with Jaime to KL. Was Brienne kept in the tower that whole time? If so then Cersei might not have seen her but I figured she had.

I thought she was in the tower for definitely the vast majority of it. It just felt a bit off to me, but yeah, there's ways of explaining it.

[Kittykatknits]

I thought she was in the tower for definitely the vast majority of it. It just felt a bit off to me, but yeah, there's ways of explaining it.

Even if we never saw it on-screen, I'm sure Cersei saw her. It's Cersei, as soon as she heard that Jaime returned with another woman, she would have felt compelled to go see what Brienne looks like.

[Jolene Brown]

I love this quote. After all, Cersei is never wrong, right? I took it as a sign that he would definitely leave her for Brienne.

Especially since, at a factual level, we know she's wrong about the raven - it did reach him.

I also take hope in this that her whole insistence that they came into the world together and will leave it together is as outdated and erroneous an understanding of where her relationship to Jaime is now as all the rest.

[Booknerd2]

Eh, Cersei sticks her nose in everything. Brienne is there and she must have heard about a female warrior and all this other stuff, she is the heir of Evenstar...you would think knowing Cersei she would at least be interested in taking a look at her.

[Kittykatknits]

Especially since, at a factual level, we know she's wrong about the raven - it did reach him.

I also take hope in this that her whole insistence that they came into the world together and will leave it together is as outdated and erroneous an understanding of where her relationship to Jaime is now as all the rest.

I take that line as Cersei projection really. It's a theme with her. She did it with Sansa when she was still in KL, and she did it with Margaery too. She can not imagine Jaime alive without her so she says this. Jaime has started divorce proceedings with her and she has absolutely no clue at all.

[Booknerd2]

I just can't think of better revenge for her character. She will be utterly blind-sided.

Sometimes things are easier to deal with if you wrap your head around them or understand.

She is incapable of doing this regarding Jaime.

[Le Cygne]

Quite a contrast there too, between her and Brienne, who despite recently having endured Jaime's pretty unappealing behavior (I love him, but he was a real ass to her for the first leg of their trip), nonetheless essentially saved his life by reminding him that he should live, if only to seek revenge, cared for him physically (cleaning him when he vomited/soiled himself) on the trip and then again in the baths at Harrenhall, where he specifically notes her gentleness.

You're right, he was an ass. It's like she made him human. The beast made the beauty human. I love this story.

Also great point about the contrast between her and Cersei. She saw him at his weakest and loved him, whereas Cersei despised him. I also liked the way they let all the walls down then and in the bathhouse scene, they were just so exposed and yet like the most natural thing in the world.